# Why was Seven banned? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [July 28, 2009, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-seven-banned/504610 "2009-07-28T22:53:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![Promethea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Promethea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Promethea)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-seven-banned/504610/381 "2009-07-29T21:09:14Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > Of _course_ it’s legal (and ethical) to forward work-related emails to someone’s boss. The mods reports to the admins, and the admins report to Ed. I do (truly) appreciate you coming in and trying to deal with the points raised - would you mind letting us know if we can expect to see any of the admins or even Ed give an explanation here? As you say, you were not personally involved and it is not fair to ask you to absorb the heat on their behalf. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-seven-banned/504610/382 "2009-07-29T21:14:00Z")
[QUOTE=InvisibleWombat;11390978Of course it is. Where were _you_ raised? .[/QUOTE] And asking where I was raised isn’t rude? :dubious: Huh. So, “Bullshit” is rude. Then you’ll have to clue in **tomndeb** from when they called a **Fenris** post “bullshit”. Seriously. I admitted that I wouldn’t use the term in front of the clergy, or in several other venues (in front of my sisters grandchildren for example), but on **this** board? ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-seven-banned/504610/383 "2009-07-29T21:20:12Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Somehow, my name has gotten dragged into this — I guess because Seven razzed me in a couple of threads. All I really want to say is that I can take it. I thought I took pretty good care of it as it was going on. > > He pitted me when I first returned here, and I mean he tore me a new asshole. But that was to be expected, at least from his point of view. I had left this whole melodramatic allegory about a new home, which it turned out that I didn’t like after the arrival there of people I didn’t get along with. I tried out Giraffe’s board, and people rightfully chewed me out for a very weasely apology. (I loved his blog feature, though, and had good feedback from it.) > > … > > … > > That board [Snark Pit] is so idiotic anyway that nobody takes it seriously. > > And that’s all I have to say about that. Damned good man, damned good. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-seven-banned/504610/384 "2009-07-29T21:29:40Z")
> [@wmfellows](#): > > Damned good man, damned good. Agreed. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-seven-banned/504610/385 "2009-07-29T21:37:37Z")
> [@Gfactor](#): > > John was wrong on the copyright issue. There are cases on this. > > No. Actually he said the opposite. > [Can you legally publish a letter someone wrote to you? - The Straight Dope](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/140/can-you-legally-publish-a-letter-someone-wrote-to-you) > > You’re probably right about this. Going out of order: 1. Fair enough and that’s some damned leet search skillz G. I could _NOT_ find that column to save my butt. I concede this point. That said. 1. I agree given that and your legal knowledge that John was wrong on the copyright issue. But _it was still the rules at the time of Seven’s post_. It’s not obvious on the face of it that John was wrong. Since it wasn’t self-evident, it’s hardly fair to blame Seven for not knowing that piece of law given that a mod (admin? What _was_ John?) specifically ok’d it. 2. Thanks. I really appreciate the reply. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-seven-banned/504610/386 "2009-07-29T21:58:18Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Going out of order: > > 1. Fair enough and that’s some damned leet search skillz G. I could _NOT_ find that column to save my butt. I concede this point. I said the same thing in the four part copyright staff report I did with **ascenray** , but in this case I don’t think I could justify citing myself. 😉 In any event, we seem to agree that fair use covers most cases in which the excerpt is a single sentence. That said. > [@](#): > > 1. I agree given that and your legal knowledge that John was wrong on the copyright issue. But _it was still the rules at the time of Seven’s post_. It’s not obvious on the face of it that John was wrong. Since it wasn’t self-evident, it’s hardly fair to blame Seven for not knowing that piece of law given that a mod (admin? What _was_ John?) specifically ok’d it. While I admire **InvisibleWombat** ’s efforts here, I don’t think the rule (if there is one) on quoting PMs and emails was based on copyright. I took some heat for posting part of an email \*from \*a staff member _to_ a poster a while back, and even though I thought I was justified in doing it at the time, I later apologized to the poster. At the time of that incident, several board members were certain posting emails (even a single sentence) was not ok because it violated the recipient’s privacy. And that’s what I take to be the basis for the rule. All of this, of course, proves nothing and I agree the rule on this is not clear. > [@](#): > > 1. Thanks. I really appreciate the reply. No problem. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-seven-banned/504610/387 "2009-07-29T22:01:29Z")
regarding posting “bullshit” being rude : > [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > Of course it is. Where were _you_ raised? In [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=525482&page=3) on page three, post 148, **tomndeb** quotes an entire post and calls it “bullshit”. Another poster suggests to him that maybe that was inappropriate, and he responds on the next page, in post 152 > [@tomndeb](#): > > I have insulted no one. I attacked the post, not the poster, just as though I was following the rules of GD. So, I was following a mod’s action as to proper posting behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-seven-banned/504610/388 "2009-07-29T22:06:18Z")
> [@wring](#): > > regarding posting “bullshit” being rude : > > In [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=525482&page=3) on page three, post 148, **tomndeb** quotes an entire post and calls it “bullshit”. Another poster suggests to him that maybe that was inappropriate, and he responds on the next page, in post 152 > > So, I was following a mod’s action as to proper posting behavior. The problem is, you are expecting the rules to be written on paper with ink and put in a place where coffee won’t be spilled on them. Instead, it is more like they are written in the sand at the tideline each day, with variations as to placement and content because the writer of the day is going by memory. The rules, such as they are, aren’t up to date, and the mods appear to be winging it. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-seven-banned/504610/389 "2009-07-29T22:08:58Z")
> [@Zabali\_Clawbane](#): > > The problem is, you are expecting the rules to be written on paper with ink and put in a place where coffee won’t be spilled on them. Instead, it is more like they are written in the sand at the tideline each day, with variations as to placement and content because the writer of the day is going by memory. The rules, such as they are, aren’t up to date, and the mods appear to be winging it. No, I’m not expecting it to be written on paper blah blah blah. But if a mod asserts “this is a rule” they’d better be able to back it up better than (essentially) ‘I pulled it out of my ass’ ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-seven-banned/504610/390 "2009-07-29T22:16:31Z")
> [@wring](#): > > No, I’m not expecting it to be written on paper blah blah blah. But if a mod asserts “this is a rule” they’d better be able to back it up better than (essentially) ‘I pulled it out of my ass’ That’s what I was getting at. It’s very simple. A member shouldn’t have to post/read here every single day in order to be able to have a hope of keeping up with the changes in rules. And for the record, I think had Seven forwarded the PMs to Ed, Ed would have told him something like “If you don’t like it, leave, I’m on the side of my admin, and if she says you are this way, you must be this way!!!11” ---
**Author:** ![Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleeps_With_Butterflies)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-seven-banned/504610/391 "2009-07-29T22:17:28Z")
> [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](#): > > Where is Alanis when you need her?. Ugh, that’s what I get for having too many windows open to reply to. I didn’t mean to say it to **Really Not All That Bright**. For whatever reason (reading too fast for my dizzy brain) I thought someone else made the comment that caused my reaction. I apologize to **Really Not All That Bright**. BTW this comment wins the thread for me: > [@Syntropy](#): > > Actually just now he changed his title to “BannedMinistrator.” Apparently it isn’t that hard after all. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-seven-banned/504610/392 "2009-07-29T22:20:04Z")
People, I say this in all sincerity: There are many decaffeinated brands that are just as tasty as the real thing. ---
**Author:** ![Xploder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/a183cd/32.png) [@Xploder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xploder)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-seven-banned/504610/393 "2009-07-29T22:31:14Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Actually, that is exactly what you did. You said it was funny - and accurate. > > Apparently you are getting away with it, as **Syntropy** is with his trolling remark, so you will have to try a little harder. > > Regards, > Shodan Just so you know, I noticed AFTER I posted my last exchange with you that **Invisible Wombat** told us to stop the insults. So I have. I apologize if your little tiny feelings were hurt. I also apologize to **IW** for insulting in this fora. ---
**Author:** ![Rolken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df788c/32.png) [@Rolken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rolken)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-seven-banned/504610/394 "2009-07-29T22:36:21Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > In what way is it a copout? I was not discussing \*\*TubaDiva \*\*or her PM. I neither condemned nor defended her or what she said. The question was why she didn’t get warned/admonished/whatever for her PM, and I said we don’t police _anybody_’s PMs. The copout was exactly _that_ you didn’t address her PM. Strictly speaking, I’d agree that it isn’t appropriate to use the standard board warning system against Tuba here, so strictly speaking, you did address what he said. But in responding so narrowly, you failed to address the real point: this isn’t an appropriate temperament for a community administrator to be exhibiting and it is deeply concerning that it doesn’t seem to give her pause. So it feels like you and the other mods/admins are playing defense and not genuinely responding to the community’s frustrations. I don’t blame you for that; I’m just trying to explain some of the hostile tone these threads generate. People are latching onto your posts and expecting full explanations from you because you’re the only mod responding, so when you don’t provide, it can feel shallow. Tuba and other administrators and mods should be expected to maintain a higher standard than “don’t break the rules.” These are the people who make and enforce the rules, and they are presumably formulating those rules in order to codify a vision of what kind of behavior they consider desirable in a community setting, insofar as it is possible to do so. So while Tuba may not have been breaking any rules, I would assert that what she did was unambiguously unwise. As administrator, that should be her first concern; the subject of _permissibility_ is only useful as an extension of encouraging members to coexist agreeably. How can she rightfully judge which rules properly uphold that goal when she doesn’t seem to promote it herself? And I’m not condemning her for being mean or judgmental or whatever. We’re all human. It’s more bothersome that she doesn’t seem interested in even participating in the dialogue. That’s part of the job description. Why are these kinds of decisions made behind closed doors anyway? I have a hard time seeing the benefit. I could understand a read-only staff forum, but hiding it completely just encourages people to make up conspiracy theories. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-seven-banned/504610/395 "2009-07-29T22:42:11Z")
> [@Rolken](#): > > So while Tuba may not have been breaking any rules, I would assert that what she did was **unambiguously unwise**. If we were given to custom titles around here, this would be the most fitting ever. ---
**Author:** ![Xploder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/a183cd/32.png) [@Xploder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xploder)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-seven-banned/504610/396 "2009-07-29T22:51:06Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > People, I say this in all sincerity: > > There are many decaffeinated brands that are just as tasty as the real thing. And that was one DAMN good movie. Have some popcorn? ---
**Author:** ![Xploder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/a183cd/32.png) [@Xploder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xploder)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-seven-banned/504610/397 "2009-07-29T22:52:37Z")
> [@lightingtool](#): > > I have to say I’m pretty surprised\* that an admin has not made a statement in this thread. It was my understanding that only admins could actually ban someone, so why hasn’t the person responsible for the banning come forward to explain their reasoning? Managers should not sit back and let their staff fight their battles for them. > > \*Ok, you got me, I’m not surprised at all. Tuba has had the female equivalent of a hardon for the snarkboards for years. I’m quite positive that she banned seven on the spur of the moment and things are progressing as usual…backpedal and try to justify the unjustifiable. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-seven-banned/504610/398 "2009-07-29T23:01:01Z")
> [@Library\_Boy](#): > > Do you always get permission from the original sender before you forward an e-mail? Kazowie! ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-seven-banned/504610/399 "2009-07-29T23:02:29Z")
> [@Promethea](#): > > I do (truly) appreciate you coming in and trying to deal with the points raised - would you mind letting us know if we can expect to see any of the admins or even Ed give an explanation here? As you say, you were not personally involved and it is not fair to ask you to absorb the heat on their behalf. I do not know. We are (obviously) talking about this, but I can’t speak for Ed or the admins. Sorry I don’t have anything more to tell you. > [@JimNightshade](#): > > Invisible Wombat - please do not take this personally - I (us perhaps) actually appreciate that you take the time to respond. > But still, copyright as an excuse is incredibly retarded… > > Copyright is an incredibly silly defence to this banning. Really. It is utter utter utter utter silly. Stupid as well (stupid as in uninformed). > > Please try again. No. I won’t try again. I will say this one last time because I’m sick and tired of repeating it: **I did not ever use copyright as a defense for the banning.** I have not defended the banning at all. I made it clear when I answered the question that I wasn’t talking about **Seven** when I said that. My thought process started with two facts: (1) The Chicago Reader (which owns SDMB and is, in turn, owned by Creative Loafing) is very concerned about copyrights, thus this board has rules against copyright violation. (2) I have been a freelance writer for over 20 years, and I’ve dealt with many, many editors in the course of producing over 20 books and hundreds of articles. It has been made clear to me by multiple editors and publishers that, for copyright reasons, I was forbidden to reprint private personal correspondence without the permission of the original author (unless the author’s dead or all the other legal caveats). Putting (1) and (2) together, it does not seem at all “stupid” or “silly” to say that people shouldn’t post PMs or private emails on the SDMB. That said, I really see no reason to continue arguing about it, since there isn’t a specific rule against it. See these two posts: > [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > It is against the rules to post private correspondence from anybody without their permission. > [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > I confess. I’ve been a moderator here for over a year, and I really don’t have that much cause to reread the rules. I thought it was specifically written there, but it appears that it isn’t. I was wrong. I don’t know what more you want from me. I made a mistake. I admitted it. I apologize. I’d sacrifice a goat, but I don’t have any left, and none of the stores around here sell sackcloth. > [@Rolken](#): > > The copout was exactly _that_ you didn’t address her PM. **TubaDiva** sent an email while I wasn’t around concerning an issue I hadn’t been involved in, and it’s a copout for me not to jump in and criticize her for it? Nope. Not falling in that trap, **Rolken**. > [@wring](#): > > regarding posting “bullshit” being rude… Let it go, **wring**. I (me, personally) thought it was impolite and asked you calmly to tone it down. That’s all. No mod action or anything. It’s over. (Hopefully) no hard feeling either way. ---
**Author:** ![lightingtool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/57b2e6/32.png) [@lightingtool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lightingtool)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-seven-banned/504610/400 "2009-07-29T23:05:53Z")
It has now been around 24 hours since **Seven** was banned. Why hasn’t an administrator come forward to explain all this? **Gaudere** , **Lynn** , and **Tuba** have all been online since this nonsense started. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-seven-banned/504610.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-seven-banned/504610.md?page=21)