Yeah, now they’re telling us to buy masks. Great.
WHERE?
I’m not saying they’re not out there, but there isn’t an online store I’ve found that can deliver earlier than the middle of the month (April 21 to May 12, from Amazon), and all the brick & mortar stores say they’re out of stock when you check on them online, and it’s not like going store to store is a good option right now.
So great. Give us a recommendation/order that can’t be met. *That’s *useful.
Well, it’s not breath, exactly. It’s spit.
When you talk, spit shoots out of your mouth, even if you don’t notice it. It’s the spit that carries the virus to the poor jerk you’re talking to, not the gases of your breath.
Six feet was chosen, I suspect, simply because it’s easy to remember and visually judge.
That’s why studies like the one SlackerInc quoted are kind of missing the point:
The benefit of a mask isn’t that it can stop something as tiny as a virus. It’s that it can stop something as big as a tiny bit of spit coming out of my mouth. The virus is usually going to be in that liquid, and if my mask stops that liquid from hitting you it makes no difference if the virus can worm its way to the outside of my mask. It didn’t hit you, and that’s what matters.
As Wrenching Spanners points out it’s not perfect but doesn’t need to be; this is a math problem. If everyone all along had been wearing masks that were just 50% effective, thousands fewer people would be sick now.
The recommendations say you can just use a makeshift one, i.e. scarf or bandanna or other cloth.
The point is less for personal protection and more to prevent your droplets from getting around. The fear is that a lot of people show limited or even no symptoms and are spreading the virus without even realizing it. In those cases (which we may unwittingly ourselves be), any covering will help.
I don’t agree with this conclusion as it pertains to the public in the current situation:
They said cloth was 13x worse than medical masks, but they didn’t compare cloth to nothing, which is the current situation. The public can’t get medical masks, so they are going without any masks at all. We need a study that looks at infection rates with cloth masks compared to nothing. And that should be both for the mask wearer as well as society at large, since one benefit of the mask could be reducing the risk that an infected person infects others.
But one important thing I think is missing from the discussion of improvised mask is how tightly they should fit against the breathing areas. The mask should definitely fit tightly around the edges, but what is better around the mouth and nose area? Should that fit tightly or loosely? I would imagine it would be better if the inside of the mask was very loose and had lots of volume so that the force of the breath would be more diffuse along a large surface of the mask. When the mask is tight against the face, the person’s breath will not be impeded as much. I would expect a mask with a large space in front of the nose and mouth to perform better since there wouldn’t be as much force to push the virus through the mask surface.
An example of this is if you were trying to smell something through a cloth mask. It would be easier to smell through a cloth which was held tightly against your nose versus a cloth with a big air gap between it and your nose. The odor molecules would still go through the mask in either case, but it will be a lot easier to pull those odor molecules through a cloth held tightly against your nose.
We’re working at cross-purposes here.
Masks have TWO purposes. Standard medical protocol is to keep the typically “dirty” mouth and nose flora and fauna from contaminating patients.
Sick people wear masks to protect them from whatever is floating around, since they are in a vulnerable state.
In an epidemic, medical personnel wear PPE: personal protection equipment, to keep them safe from the illness.
The doctors and nurses don’t dress up in space suits and tape their gloves to sleeves and wear goggles to keep their germs contained from patients!
Masks are a BARRIER. It’s non-productive to argue about which way the virus particles are traveling in public. If each person would wear a mask when outside doing necessary tasks, the surfeit of barriers MIGHT slow the transmission rate.
At the rate this disease is traveling, anything we can do to protect ourselves and others is welcome.
Yes, the very best advice is to STAY HOME. But we need groceries, we need medication, we need doctor visits. And we’ve got heroic people on the front lines stocking shelves, making home deliveries, driving trucks, working to keep civilization functioning.
Stay home, wash your hands, and if you go out, wear a mask.
~VOW
Make them yourself. A little self reliance. Masks are not a sophisticated piece of technology. I have zero sewing skills and was still able to make something simple as a mask for myself.
Quoted for truth. At least, I’m no expert, but this is what makes sense to me.
Now, if I’m wearing a mask, and somebody who’s talking to me isn’t, and some of their spit particles land on the outside of my mask, I’m guessing the mask isn’t going to protect me from any virus in that spit. Especially if it’s a cloth mask and the spit soaks into the cloth.
From the article linked in post #98:
Do they mean tight along the edges or tight against the nose and mouth? Tight against your mouth means the air will be exhaled more powerfully from the mask. It easy to demonstrate. Pull your shirt up flat and tight against your mouth, blow out hard, and feel how far away you can feel your breath. Then hold your shirt up against the bridge of your nose so that the shirt is loose around your mouth, blow out hard, and see if you can feel your breath. Likely you won’t be able to feel it, since your breath is spread out along more of the surface of your shirt.
Tight along the edges. It’s why beards make masks pointless.
CMC fnord!
From Taiwan: Taipei, April 3 (CNA) All users of public transport will need to wear facial masks or risk a maximum fine of NT$15,000 (US$496), effective as of Friday, a top official from the Central Epidemic Command Center (CECC) said, as parts of efforts to prevent the spread of the COVID-19 coronavirus.
“If we spot someone not wearing a mask, we will ask them to put one on and if they refuse to do so, we will fine them in accordance to the Communicable Disease Control Act,” Chen said.
(snip)
The reason for enforcing users of public transport to wear masks is because proper social distancing cannot be properly implemented in such situations, Chen Shih-chung said.
I didnt say sole purpose. It is their *primary *purpose.
And you shouldn’t have any N95 respirators, the private hoarding of these will just cause more spread of the disease. thanks. :rolleyes:
And, I am not “down” on masks for us- I have said it is not a bad idea to make your own mask for when you go out- which should be as seldom as possible. That will help slightly if you are asymptomatic. Stay at home- wash your hands.
The issue with us wearing N95 respirators is that people will get the idea they are protected and go out more. That is just the opposite of what we should be doing. Stay at home- wash your hands.
How do you know there’s not a medical reason?
Not a bad idea, if you know what you’re doing (see post #128).
Any mask can do that. The sentence immediately following the quote in post #128:
Quite a lot of people have N95s around, for carpentry, cleaning, allergies, wildfire smoke, or leftover from medical treatments. That’s certainly not “hoarding,” and my health department, at least, has asked for donations only of unopened boxes. Nonetheless, I’ve offered my small number of unused but not sterile N95s and latex gloves to medical colleagues directly.
I don’t understand why “beards make masks pointless.” As long as the mask is covering your mouth, it’s stopping the spray of spit droplets that would normally fly out when you talk, cough, yawn, etc., isn’t it?
If that’s the reason you’re wearing the mask and your mask doesn’t have a ‘one way’ exhalation valve. Also, if that’s the only way this spreads. Either way, a loose fitting mask isn’t a mask.
CMC fnord!
The ordinary masks in themselves offer very little protection, but do help prevent an already sick person from spreading viral happiness all around. However, for real protection you need the fancy sort of mask with filters, usually at the side, plus close-fitting eye protection.
As for Japan, well, I just wonder how long it would last before the numbers skyrocketed, given the need for public transport and the incredibly overcrowded trains. Been there, did it, my ribs still ache when I think of it. And the Japanese government is not exactly known for transparency. For just one thing, there are dark murmurings that the levels of radiation in Tokyo after Fukushima were reported as being lower than they actually were. OK, nobody is actually glowing in the dark yet. But, in the same vein, there are reports that the PRC is under-reporting COVID-related deaths
You can come pry my massive stockpile of three N95 respirators, that I paid nearly ten bucks each for in February, out of my cold dead hands. 
And you still haven’t addressed my point that if medical personnel were primarily wearing PPE to protect patients from them rather than vice versa, this wouldn’t make sense for those who take care of confirmed coronavirus patients all day long, and would mean they are grossly negligent to go home every day to their families. You should just admit that was wrong and move on.
Are you suggesting I shouldn’t use my N95 dust mask that I got last year for a sanding project? Do you think the hospital wants my used mask? I have another one that’s probably unused. Am I hoarding?
That’s three days worth, tops.
Yes, medical personnel go home every day to their families, knowing they may carry something. They take tests of course, monitor their temperature, wash their hands better than we do and what not.
But yes, most of the cleanliness stuff in hospitals is primarily to protect the patients, not the workers.