# Why was the Hood so Mighty? and what happened to the Graf Zeppelin? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 9, 2007, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-hood-so-mighty-and-what-happened-to-the-graf-zeppelin/407367 "2007-06-09T15:13:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2007, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-hood-so-mighty-and-what-happened-to-the-graf-zeppelin/407367/21 "2007-06-10T07:18:46Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] and the Bf-109Ts would not have had the range to escort the bombers in a serious long-distance battle, making the Stukas pretty much dead meat. (In addition, Brit carriers used armored flight decks, which would have reduced the effectiveness of the Stukas, and the Germans had not even decided on a torpedo bomber.) S [/QUOTE] Not to mention, the GZ was only slated to carry 10 Me109s. Note that the Fieseler Fi 167 was _originally_ slated to be the TB. Later, just more Stukas. Ark Royal= 54 planes +/- Illustrious class (4 ships) up to 57 a/c Royal navy started with 7 carriers and ended with **58**! (with 10 being sunk) Gz was planned for 50 A/C. Not good odds. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-hood-so-mighty-and-what-happened-to-the-graf-zeppelin/407367/22 "2007-06-11T02:13:09Z")
[Yet another link to the Hood](http://www.navweaps.com/index_inro/index_inro.htm) In this case her last day against the Bismarck. Tomndebb, the armored flight decks weren’t all that great. [As argued here.](http://www.navweaps.com/index_tech/tech-030.htm) ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-hood-so-mighty-and-what-happened-to-the-graf-zeppelin/407367/23 "2007-06-11T06:28:59Z")
[QUOTE=Hypno-Toad] Tomndebb, the armored flight decks weren’t all that great. [As argued here.](http://www.navweaps.com/index_tech/tech-030.htm) [/QUOTE] Oh, I would never have preferred the British armored flight deck to the Yank armored hangar deck. However, the issue was whether the _Graf Zeppelin_ (with its _Stuka_s and a lack of torpedo bombers) was a serious threat to a British carrier. Note that the problems attendant on the armored flight decks tended to result in shorter service lives and restricted aircraft types, not in sinkings or taking damage to remove them from combat. Neither of those issues would have been significant when determining whether a British carrier armed with Swordfish and Fulmars could have survived a battle against the _Graf Zeppelin_ using Bf-109Ts and Ju-87s. The hull warping due to the weight of and damage sustained by those decks might very well have hampered the later British support of Pacific operations, but in the actual battles with the Germans, they would have survived long enough to sink the _G Z_. ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-hood-so-mighty-and-what-happened-to-the-graf-zeppelin/407367/24 "2007-06-11T07:26:44Z")
One other factor for the low priorities for the _Graf Zeppelin_’s construction is the pissing match that Georing made about allowing the Kreigsmarine **any** aircraft, at all. Training to land on a carrier takes time. The analogy I always hear is trying to land on a moving postage stamp. Without planes, pilots or time to train air crew, production priorities were pushed even further back, what after all is the point of an aircraft carrier without any aircraft to carry? And after Goering won that battle, he refused to cooperate with the Kreigsmarine to almost any extent. As an example, I’m not sure that any signifigant munitions could have made it through the Murmansk Run had the Luftwaffe been willing to birddog for U-boats. Oh, more for the Bismark - according to either the [Hood association site](http://www.hmshood.com/), or [one of](http://www.diebismarck.de/eindex.html) [the Bismark](http://www.kbismarck.com/) sites I’d been looking at earlier this year (Sorry, I can’t find the exact cite, now - but it seems pretty credible to me.) the crew of the Bismark was shocked when the Hood blew up. During their war games the Kreigsmarine had apparantly been treating the Hood as a very serious contender. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-hood-so-mighty-and-what-happened-to-the-graf-zeppelin/407367/25 "2007-06-11T14:32:59Z")
> [@Northern Piper](#): > > So, why did Hood have such a reputation, both among the British and the Germans? Nice little write up on the _HMS Hood_: [http://www.warship.org/no21987.htm](http://www.warship.org/no21987.htm) For those without the patience to read that, basically the _Hood_ carried armor roughly equivalent in thickness to the first generation of dreadnoughts, inclined outwards. (All warships built in those days were vulnerable to plunging fire and air dropped weapons.) She was scheduled for modernisation, but WW2 prevented those plans from being carried out. > [@](#): > > At 41,200 tons and 860 ft 7 in [262.31 meters] overall length, Hood was for many years the largest and most prestigious warship in the world. She was also among the fastest of Britains capital ships. Used as symbol of Britains sea power (as reaffirmed by WW1), she was used as a roving embassador between the (world) wars. The _Hood_ gained a sort of celebrity status, like “Flagship of the Federation”. She was indeed considered “good looking” as far as warships go. Photos: [http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/hood.htm](http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/hood.htm) > [@Northern Piper](#): > > Graf Zeppelin. What happened to it? Keel laid down in 1936, launched in 1938, never completed. The Kreigsmarine, with a modified “Plan Z”, did not plan to fight a general war until 1945, and planned construction of major units accordingly. [Plan Z - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_Z) In hindsight, considering all the competing special interests and factions within the Third Reich, it is doubtfull that such a plan would have been finished even by then. The ship was scuttled off Stettin in 1945. The Soviets refloated it in early 1946, and after toying with (and rejecting) the idea of refitting it for use in their navy, sank it for target practice in 1947. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2007, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-hood-so-mighty-and-what-happened-to-the-graf-zeppelin/407367/26 "2007-06-12T03:47:49Z")
This has all been fascinating - thanks very much, everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2007, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-hood-so-mighty-and-what-happened-to-the-graf-zeppelin/407367/27 "2007-06-12T04:14:02Z")
[hijack] So a while back I went and download a bunch of songs from iTunes and emusic. Country-ish songs from my childhood. Among those songs was this little [ditty](http://www.oldielyrics.com/lyrics/johnny_horton/sink_the_bismark.html). When I read this thread, I put that old country playlist on iTunes. I have not been able to get this damn song out of my head since. :smack: ::: Shakes fist::: Damn you **Northern Piper** [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2007, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-hood-so-mighty-and-what-happened-to-the-graf-zeppelin/407367/28 "2007-06-12T07:28:41Z")
[QUOTE=Rick] [hijack] So a while back I went and download a bunch of songs from iTunes and emusic. Country-ish songs from my childhood. Among those songs was this little [ditty](http://www.oldielyrics.com/lyrics/johnny_horton/sink_the_bismark.html). When I read this thread, I put that old country playlist on iTunes. I have not been able to get this damn song out of my head since. :smack: ::: Shakes fist::: Damn you **Northern Piper** [/hijack] [/QUOTE] Oddly he got a line wrong. He sings “Stop those guns as big as steers and those shells as big as trees” and of course, it is guns as big as trees and shells as big as steers.. Great song, though, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2007, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-hood-so-mighty-and-what-happened-to-the-graf-zeppelin/407367/29 "2007-06-12T12:59:41Z")
[QUOTE=Rick] :smack: ::: Shakes fist::: Damn you **Northern Piper** [/QUOTE] In the fight against ignorance, there’s sometimes collateral damage. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2007, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-hood-so-mighty-and-what-happened-to-the-graf-zeppelin/407367/30 "2007-06-12T13:59:13Z")
For those who wonder what happened to the **other** _Graf Zeppelin_, the airship, the original and famous one, LZ-127, built in 1928, was grounded in June 1937, after the _Hindenburg_ explosion, and was dismantled for parts in March 1940 on orders of Hermann Goering. The LZ-130, planned sister ship to the _Hindenburg_, was in limited service in 1938-39, principally on Luftwaffe missions, and was likewise dismantled for parts. For what it’s worth, all the Graf Zeppelins were named after Ferdinand, Graf von Zeppelin, who died in 1917, and if not the inventor was the pefector of the rigid airship as a functional commercial aircraft. His company, Luftschiffebau Zeppelin (HQ at Friedrichshaven, Bav.), was quite vehemently anti-Nazi. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2007, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-hood-so-mighty-and-what-happened-to-the-graf-zeppelin/407367/31 "2007-06-12T14:22:33Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] Oddly he got a line wrong. He sings “Stop those guns as big as steers and those shells as big as trees” and of course, it is guns as big as trees and shells as big as steers.. Great song, though, eh? [/QUOTE] Small trees, and really big steers? Yeah, I noticed that when I was a kid. Doesn’t make it any easier to get this damn song out of my head. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2007, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-hood-so-mighty-and-what-happened-to-the-graf-zeppelin/407367/32 "2007-06-12T14:26:39Z")
This funny hoax wasn’t set aboard the _Hood_, but I still like sharing it: [Dreadnought hoax - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreadnought_hoax) There were several Starfleet ships named after the _Hood_ in various incarnations of _Star Trek_, including a previous assignment of Cmdr. William Riker. And Thomas Harris, in his great alternative-history thriller _Fatherland_, mentions in passing that the German navy finished the _Graf Zeppelin_ and put her into service sometime before 1964. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-hood-so-mighty-and-what-happened-to-the-graf-zeppelin/407367.md?page=1)