# Why Was the Leadership of the (Nazi) SA Predominently Gay?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-leadership-of-the-nazi-sa-predominently-gay/693273
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [July 16, 2014, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-leadership-of-the-nazi-sa-predominently-gay/693273 "2014-07-16T14:26:22Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2014, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-leadership-of-the-nazi-sa-predominently-gay/693273/1 "2014-07-16T14:26:22Z")
Or was it? At least that’s how [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernest_Rohm#SA_leader) has it.
> [@](#):
>
> SA intimidation contributed to the rise of the Nazis and the violent suppression of left-wing parties during electoral campaigns, but its reputation for street violence and heavy drinking was a hindrance, as was the open homosexuality of Röhm and other SA leaders such as his deputy Edmund Heines.[5][6] One American journalist would later write, “[Röhm’s] chiefs, men of the rank of Gruppenfuehrer or Obergruppenfuehrer, commanding units of several hundred thousand Storm Troopers, were almost without exception homosexuals.”
Considering that gays are a relatively small percentage of the population to begin with, homosexuality was not too popular at that altogether, and that the Nazis in particular later exhibited exceptionally strong opposition to it, it seems odd that the leadership of their violent stormtrooper movement should have initially have been heavily gay.
How/why would this have come about? Or is it untrue altogether?
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### Author:  [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2014, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-leadership-of-the-nazi-sa-predominently-gay/693273/2 "2014-07-16T14:46:08Z")
I don’t know that it’s any more complicated then Rohm happened to be gay and when he became the leader of the SA, he tended to put fellow gays in positions of power. Gay rights were never on the SA’s agenda in any form though.
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### Author:  [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2014, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-leadership-of-the-nazi-sa-predominently-gay/693273/3 "2014-07-16T17:51:43Z")
It’s unlikely that SA officers were mostly (or even commonly) gay, but the Nazis were always willing to make exceptions for those at the top. Hitler was hardly anyone’s vision of the Aryan Superman but he got to be in charge of everything, after all.
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### Author:  [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2014, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-leadership-of-the-nazi-sa-predominently-gay/693273/4 "2014-07-16T19:09:21Z")
The amount of homosexuality in the SA was also exaggerated by the Nazi’s opponents in order to slur the Nazis. Roehm and some of his aides were gay, but it wasnt common.
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### Author:  [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2014, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-leadership-of-the-nazi-sa-predominently-gay/693273/5 "2014-07-16T19:18:04Z")
They all thought they’d look just fabulous wearing Hugo Boss?
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### Author:  [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2014, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-leadership-of-the-nazi-sa-predominently-gay/693273/6 "2014-07-16T21:59:52Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#):
>
> They all thought they’d look just fabulous wearing Hugo Boss?
Well, who wouldn’t???
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### Author:  [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2014, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-leadership-of-the-nazi-sa-predominently-gay/693273/7 "2014-07-16T22:10:57Z")
I could also imagine someone slipped in a Nazi-gay connection into the Wiki article to attempt to slander gays.
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### Author:  [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2014, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-leadership-of-the-nazi-sa-predominently-gay/693273/8 "2014-07-16T22:52:17Z")
:
> [@Deeg](#):
>
> I could also imagine someone slipped in a Nazi-gay connection into the Wiki article to attempt to slander gays.
:rolleyes: Do read the cites given.
The simple answer is that the Nazi party/SA attracted people on the fringes of society and homosexuality is easy to hide if necessary, unlike race or ethnicity.
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### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2014, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-leadership-of-the-nazi-sa-predominently-gay/693273/9 "2014-07-16T23:22:58Z")
> [@AK84](#):
>
> :
> :rolleyes: Do read the cites given.
>
> The simple answer is that the Nazi party/SA attracted people on the fringes of society and homosexuality is easy to hide if necessary, unlike race or ethnicity.
Well one cite is\* Is Tomorrow Hitler’s\*?, written by a known propaganda writer during the early 1940’s. The accusations were likely written to discredit Hitler and the Nazis.
No doubt Ernst Rohm was a homosexual, but as for the others?
> **[Homosexuals and the Third Reich](https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/homosexuals-and-the-third-reich)**
>
> Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.
_Many historians have hinted darkly at the “unspeakable practices” of a Nazi elite supposedly overrun with “sexual perverts,” but this charge is both unsubstantiated and insidious. Upon closer examination, it turns out to be no more than the standard use of antigay prejudice to defame any given individual or group a practice, incidentally, of which the Nazis were the supreme masters. The Nazis were guilty of very real offences, but their unspeakable practices were crimes against mankind._
So, I am going to dismiss H R Knickerbocker’s quote.
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### Author:  [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2014, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-leadership-of-the-nazi-sa-predominently-gay/693273/10 "2014-07-16T23:25:44Z")
Well, come on, those uniforms.
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### Author:  [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)
#### Post date: [July 17, 2014, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-leadership-of-the-nazi-sa-predominently-gay/693273/11 "2014-07-17T02:25:54Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#):
>
> I don’t know that it’s any more complicated then Rohm happened to be gay and when he became the leader of the SA, he tended to put fellow gays in positions of power. Gay rights were never on the SA’s agenda in any form though.
That would be my guess. It was simple cronyism.
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### Author:  [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)
#### Post date: [July 17, 2014, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-leadership-of-the-nazi-sa-predominently-gay/693273/12 "2014-07-17T04:30:05Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#):
>
> I don’t know that it’s any more complicated then Rohm happened to be gay and when he became the leader of the SA, he tended to put fellow gays in positions of power. Gay rights were never on the SA’s agenda in any form though.
Curiously, given that eliminating the SA’s power within the Nazi movement was perhaps the main objective of the purge of 1934, Ernst Roehm was reportedly Hitler’s one and only _Duzfreund_–that is, they addressed each other with the familiar forms _du_ and _dir_.[sup]1[/sup] This isn’t to suggest that the two were attracted to each other, but it might explain Hitler’s not interfering much with the inner workings of the SA, particularly before the party came to power.
[sup]1[/sup]According to a documentary I watched on the website of ZDF, a German TV network much like PBS.
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### Author:  [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)
#### Post date: [July 17, 2014, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-leadership-of-the-nazi-sa-predominently-gay/693273/13 "2014-07-17T04:44:47Z")
> [@AK84](#):
>
> :
> :rolleyes: Do read the cites given.
>
> The simple answer is that the Nazi party/SA attracted people on the fringes of society and homosexuality is easy to hide if necessary, unlike race or ethnicity.
I’m a big proponent of Wikipedia but there are a few areas where I don’t trust the articles or the cites (AGW is the best example). There is so much nonsense written about the Nazis that I’m going to look dubiously at many articles whatever the cites. DrDeth gave a good example.
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### Author:  [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)
#### Post date: [July 17, 2014, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-leadership-of-the-nazi-sa-predominently-gay/693273/14 "2014-07-17T06:10:46Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#):
>
> They all thought they’d look just fabulous wearing Hugo Boss?
I thought the SS had the Hugo Boss. I can’t find anything to suggest the SA were also Boss. Also, their uniforms were brown and second-banana looking, and nowhere near as stylish as the SS.
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### Author:  [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)
#### Post date: [July 17, 2014, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-leadership-of-the-nazi-sa-predominently-gay/693273/15 "2014-07-17T11:33:52Z")
The SA had a LOT of power before the purge. Since they were not part of the Wehrmacht , the Treaty of Versailles didn’t apply to them and the Wehrmacht generals felt threatened by them. Part of the reason the Wehrmacht generals supported Hitler was that they expected Hitler to reign in the SA.
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### Author:  [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)
#### Post date: [July 17, 2014, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-leadership-of-the-nazi-sa-predominently-gay/693273/16 "2014-07-17T11:43:00Z")
My history teacher never bothered mentioning that Röhm was gay when talking about the Night of the Long Knives. It seems pretty relevant. He did kind of suck at history, though.
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### Author:  [@Namkcalb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Namkcalb)
#### Post date: [July 17, 2014, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-leadership-of-the-nazi-sa-predominently-gay/693273/17 "2014-07-17T11:51:21Z")
Not all gays are Nazis, but some Nazis are gays.
Evidence: [This tattoo](http://cdn2.holytaco.com/wp-content/uploads/images/unicorn_tattoos_10.jpg)
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### Author:  [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)
#### Post date: [July 17, 2014, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-leadership-of-the-nazi-sa-predominently-gay/693273/18 "2014-07-17T12:07:29Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#):
>
> I thought the SS had the Hugo Boss. I can’t find anything to suggest the SA were also Boss. Also, their uniforms were brown and second-banana looking, and nowhere near as stylish as the SS.
Their initial run of khaki uniforms were leftovers from the German Empire’s [colonial troops](http://timashby.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Askari-on-March.jpg), after they lost their overseas possessions in WWI. Read what irony you want into the Aryan thugs wearing clothes intended for Black guys.
They accessorized with their emblematic “coffee can” kepi, while the SS went in for the flared-crown schirmmützen, which, ironically again, was of Russian origin. And the felt berets worn by panzers was originally French. Well, we can’t take away their lederhosen.
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### Author:  [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)
#### Post date: [July 17, 2014, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-leadership-of-the-nazi-sa-predominently-gay/693273/19 "2014-07-17T13:26:21Z")
[This](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johann-hari/the-strange-strange-story_b_136697.html)article mentions that Rohm installed lovers at many posts in the SA.
> [@](#):
>
> In its early years, the SA - Hitler and Rohm’s underground army - was seen as predominantly gay. Rohm assigned prominent posts to his lovers, making Edmund Heines his deputy and Karl Ernst the SA commander in Berlin. The organisation would sometimes meet in gay bars. The gay art historian Christian Isermayer said in an interview, “I got to know people in the SA. They used to throw riotous parties even in 1933… I once attended one. It was quite well-behaved but thoroughly gay. But then, in those days, the SA was ultra-gay.”
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### Author:  [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)
#### Post date: [July 17, 2014, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-leadership-of-the-nazi-sa-predominently-gay/693273/20 "2014-07-17T13:36:31Z")
There were gay bars in 1934?
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