# Why was the star trek cast so viciously typecast? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 31, 2009, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-star-trek-cast-so-viciously-typecast/523202 "2009-12-31T17:57:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2010, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-star-trek-cast-so-viciously-typecast/523202/41 "2010-01-01T22:51:40Z")
No one remembers Walter Koenig as Bester in Babylon 5? [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/S-Yvk2xfPbU/hqdefault.jpg "Babylon 5 - 5.11 'Phoenix Rising'") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-Yvk2xfPbU) Bester used to scare the crap out of me. Those mind probes that could leave you insane. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![caligulathegod](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/caligulathegod/32/9685_2.png) [@caligulathegod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caligulathegod)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-star-trek-cast-so-viciously-typecast/523202/42 "2010-01-04T07:56:24Z")
I was watching the Star Trek season 1 Blu-ray after not having watched the series for years and one of the things I really noticed was how nearly all the actors grew into their roles and the characters either became more developed (Spock, for one) or started to just blend into the background (Uhura-she started interesting then ended up just ended up ‘opening hailing frequencies’). Most noticeable was Kirk, though. From the first episode to the last, he WAS Kirk. Shatner instinctively understood his character and hit the ground running. He occasionally did ham it up and always seemed to forget to wear his black undershirt when he was going to have his uniform ripped off, but he had Kirk down to a T the first time he walked onto the set. I do think most of the cries of typecasting comes from the sour grapes of the other actors who apparently thought they were part of an ensemble when they were really glorified extras. The first season especially, they were literally interchangeable as they were relieved by no-names quite often. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-star-trek-cast-so-viciously-typecast/523202/43 "2010-01-04T15:26:37Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Of the actors mentioned here, Alec Guiness is by far the most talented with Harrison Ford coming in a distant second. The rest simply were not good actors with the exception of DeForest Kelly. Shatner is laughably bad. Hollywood employs actors if their name will draw in a crowd: sell tickets. Thus, Shatner gets work. I agree that Shatner is a ham, but give him his due: he was a steadily working actor LONG before he got the role of James T. Kirk. I remember him from “Twilight Zone,” from “Judgment at Nuremberg,” and a host of TV roles. “Star Trek” made him a star, obviously, but he was making a decent living as an actor before that, which is no small feat in show biz. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-star-trek-cast-so-viciously-typecast/523202/44 "2010-01-04T15:51:48Z")
There’s not really a sufficient data sample of Star Trek actors to assess whether or not they’re likelier to get typecast than anyone else. Two points, one of which has been already made: 1. Most actors have no success at all and most that do have only fleeting success. It’s not at all unusual that Marina Sirtis or Walter Koenig would have limited success apart from their biggest roles. 2. **Most actors are typecast.** Most professional actors will be slotted into the roles that suit their physical appearance, acting style, and personality. You’re not going to see R. Lee Ermey cast as the handosme romantic lead, or Kathy Bates as a martial arts assassin. If you take a rundown of Star Trek and Star Wars principals it’s not at all obvious that they are likelier to have their careers derailed by their most famous role than anyone else is. Consider the Star Wars cast: **Harrison Ford** went on to star in a zillion movies and become of of the most successful actors of all time. **Mark Hamill** didn’t, though he did get some other roles. **Carrie Fisher** might have, but had serious substance abuse problems, and became successful in other areas. Everyone else in the cast was either a veteran actor or inside a suit. I’m not sure what happened to Billy Dee Williams. Star Trek: **William Shatner** has been very successful **Leonard Nimoy** has gotten lots of lesser work as an actor and was very successful as a director **DeForest Kelley** was more or less at the end of his career **James Doohan** , as mentioned, seemed content to count his money **Walter Koenig** seems to have had trouble finding more work **Nichelle Nichols** had limited success as an actor in the decade following the show’s cancellation, though she seems to have done a lot of work for NASA That seems like a pretty normal winning percentage to me. I could go through the Next Generation cast but it’d be more of the same. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-star-trek-cast-so-viciously-typecast/523202/45 "2010-01-04T16:11:18Z")
> [@furryman](#): > > There’s a funny story Walter Koenig tells at conventions about how the director of some B movie contacted him and wanted him to play the Chekov character in his movie. You really got to wonder what goes through some peoples minds. Especially since Koenig later showed that he’s got serious chops - frankly, I don’t even think of him as “Chekov”. He’s “Bester”, from Babylon 5 - a genuinely great, nuanced, frightening villain who’s very different from Chekov. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-star-trek-cast-so-viciously-typecast/523202/46 "2010-01-04T16:14:00Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I could go through the Next Generation cast but it’d be more of the same. Yeah, aside from Picard, and maaaybe Data, the whole cast was pretty forgettable. Most of Voyager too. Janeway and the doctor were cool. DS9 was okay, but none of the characters were pinups, let’s say. ST:ENT was probably the easiest on the eyes, and the doctor was cool and charming in many ways that Neelix should have been, but wasn’t (the actor’s cool, though). Someone up-thread mentioned being part of a popular ensemble cast doesn’t mean you’re the one driving the popularity. That’s very true. OTOH, these days if you’re part of a popular ensemble that goes on for five or more years, you’ve probably made enough money you just aren’t going to be as hungry for work afterwards. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-star-trek-cast-so-viciously-typecast/523202/47 "2010-01-04T16:34:50Z")
Joe “Joey Pants” Pantoliano, who’s worked in lots of different movies (_Risky Business, Bound, The Matrix_, and also _The Sopranos_), likes to say that most actors’ careers can be summarized as follows: Who’s Joey Pants? Get me Joey Pants! Get me a younger Joey Pants! Who’s Joey Pants? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-star-trek-cast-so-viciously-typecast/523202/48 "2010-01-04T16:59:42Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Nimoy was involved an producing and he narrated the series “In Search Of”. He has done voice overs for historical and space programs. So he managed to spin off a bit while not completely removing himself. > [@levdrakon](#): > > Let’s not forget Nimoy immediately went on to Mission Impossible. Also, he spent a lot of time on stage, proving his acting chops in a large variety of roles. [Beep…beep…beep…beep.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1Z6e7igvMA) ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-star-trek-cast-so-viciously-typecast/523202/49 "2010-01-04T17:45:07Z")
With regard to William Shatner’s acting talents, I think it would be important to remember that what we’re seeing of his work in ST:TOS was done in the 60’s, and acting itself (to my eyes, anyway) was different then. People seemed to be _acting_ more - it seems more stylized to me than what we see now (people trying to look as natural as possible for the situations). ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-star-trek-cast-so-viciously-typecast/523202/50 "2010-01-04T18:02:46Z")
Typecasting can be a nuisance, no doubt about it. BUT… Were Leonard Nimoy’s typecasting problems REALLY any worse than those of Robin “Mork” Williams? Were William Shatner’s typecasting problems so much worse than those of Tom Hanks, who spent years wearing a dress, on “Bosom Buddies”? Think Marina Sirtis is typecast? Sally Field was The Flying Nun, and still won two Oscars!!! Were Nichelle Nichols’ problems any worse than those of Cher, who was best known for wearing tacky costumes and swapping lame jokes with her husband on a TV variety show? No matter WHO you are, it’s HARD to succeed as an actor. Good parts are hard to come by, and the competition is fierce. But I’m not convinced that typecasting is really the one and only problem holding any actor back. ---
**Author:** ![FordTaurusSHO94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f07891/32.png) [@FordTaurusSHO94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordTaurusSHO94)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-star-trek-cast-so-viciously-typecast/523202/51 "2010-01-04T21:43:09Z")
When watching Star Trek, Shatner seems to move between being Kirk and being Shatner. In The Voyage Home, I saw Shatner jump out when the whale lady first boarded the Bird of Prey. She tripped or something and he caught her and I guess was trying to flirt with her. It came across as Shatner trying to pick her up after filming was done for the day. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_s\_Son](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@Jim\_s\_Son](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_s_Son)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2010, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-star-trek-cast-so-viciously-typecast/523202/52 "2010-01-05T08:14:54Z")
One major problem actors from the “Star Trek: TOS” era had with typecasting is most of them didn’t get residual money after the few few repeats. I think in the mid 70s that was changed with new contracts with the Scree Actors Guild but it wasn’t made retroactive. James Doohan played a Scotty-like character on the 1996 series “Homeboys in Outer Space” but stopped when Paramount expressed its displeasure. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2010, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-star-trek-cast-so-viciously-typecast/523202/53 "2010-01-05T12:25:36Z")
> [@Jim\_s\_Son](#): > > One major problem actors from the “Star Trek: TOS” era had with typecasting is most of them didn’t get residual money after the few few repeats. I think in the mid 70s that was changed with new contracts with the Scree Actors Guild but it wasn’t made retroactive. > > James Doohan played a Scotty-like character on the 1996 series “Homeboys in Outer Space” but stopped when Paramount expressed its displeasure. The reason Nimoy was so late signing on to the movies was that he was negotiating getting his back payments from all that. The thing that started it was a [Heineken ad](http://www.coolscifi.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=872&c=34) with Spock’s likeness. Man, I’m getting a lot of traction for the [book by Nimoy](http://www.amazon.com/I-Am-Spock-Leonard-Nimoy/dp/0786861827) I picked up out of the dollar bin. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2010, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-star-trek-cast-so-viciously-typecast/523202/54 "2010-01-05T15:44:05Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Typecasting can be a nuisance, no doubt about it. BUT.. > > Were Leonard Nimoy’s typecasting problems REALLY any worse than those of Robin “Mork” Williams? Robin Williams was an esablished stand up commedian before playing Mork, so yes. > [@](#): > > Were William Shatner’s typecasting problems so much worse than those of Tom Hanks, who spent years wearing a dress, on “Bosom Buddies”? Tell that to Peter Scolari > [@](#): > > Think Marina Sirtis is typecast? Sally Field was The Flying Nun, and still won two Oscars!!! Sally Field was already a star when she did the Flying Nun. Remember a little show called Gidget? Added to that the fact that Sally Field is still typecast to this day as the “cute perky girl-next-door” type, she just managed to make a career out of it. > [@](#): > > Were Nichelle Nichols’ problems any worse than those of Cher, who was best known for wearing tacky costumes and swapping lame jokes with her husband on a TV variety show? Cher was a highly successful singer before and continued to be so dispite that variety show, so yes. The Sonny and Cher Show was not what made Cher a star. She did not even get serious consideration as an actress until the '80s when she did Silkwood and Mask. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2010, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-star-trek-cast-so-viciously-typecast/523202/55 "2010-01-05T15:53:52Z")
> [@Death\_of\_Rats](#): > > Tell that to Peter Scolari. Scolari has been working steadily in a variety of roles ever since _Bosom Buddies_. _Newhart_ - 142 episodes. _Honey I Shrunk the Kids_ - 113 episodes. Not to mention over 80 guest-starring roles. Hardly an actor who is “type-cast.” ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2010, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-star-trek-cast-so-viciously-typecast/523202/56 "2010-01-05T16:16:39Z")
Niether was Tom Hanks. Just because you play a part does not mean you are automatically typ cast in it. The cast of Star trek were mostly type cast as, with the exception of DeForrest Kelly and maybe William Shatner, that was the only work thier fans were familiar with. ---
**Author:** ![HorseloverFat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8e8cbc/32.png) [@HorseloverFat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HorseloverFat)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2010, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-star-trek-cast-so-viciously-typecast/523202/57 "2010-01-05T17:07:04Z")
\>. People seemed to be acting more - it seems more stylized to me than what we see now (people trying to look as natural as possible for the situations). This is a really excellent point. Acting definitely was a lot more hammy and dramatic at the time. Heck, TV itself was still new and no one was sure how to make it work. A lot of early television was essentially “plays before the camera.” So you inherited everything about the theater. Over the top drama, ham, the ideal of egotistical leading man, etc. Even the writing was very different. Watch any old show. You’ll see so much reliance on ethnic stereotypes you’ll shake your head in disapproval. For whatever reason, Star Trek is seen as a modern show, but it really has one foot stuck in the 1950s television period and another in the 1960s. Im not much of a TV historian and not much of a Star Trek fan, but I must agree that Shatner and Nimoy were fairly talented. A lot of the conventional wisdom about their limitations really are limitations about the format and the expectations of a TV actor from that time period. I think one of the reasons why the show remains popular and appeals to people who otherwise arent impressed by TNG or the spinoffs is that the old fashioned elements, some of which were fairly cheesy, translate into a warmth and traditionalism that the audience relates to. Which is ironic considering its a show about a progressive future. Its really just a male fantasy: commanding a big warship, girls in short skirts, little accountability, lots of sex with aliens, war/fighting, etc. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2010, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-star-trek-cast-so-viciously-typecast/523202/58 "2010-01-05T17:17:33Z")
But Death of Rats, you kinda proved my point regarding Sally Field. Both Gidget and the Flying Nun were cute, perky TV roles. NOTHING about those roles suggested she could play a redneck union organizer (“Norma Rae”) or a Depression era widow (“Places in the Heart”). She had to overcome some MAJOR typecasting to get the roles that earned her two Oscars. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2010, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-star-trek-cast-so-viciously-typecast/523202/59 "2010-01-05T18:31:00Z")
And then she proved her own typecasting by saying, “You like me! You really like me!” when she accepted her Oscar. 😛 I can see the typecasting of some of the Trek folk; I just don’t see the viciousness of it. Cindy Brady was viciously typecast, as were almost all the Brady kids. Of course, whoever played Cindy didn’t have much beyond her “aww, cute” stuff (if you like that sort of thing). Suzanne Somers was viciously typecast as another example. Margaret Hamilton, who loved children, could never do kid stuff after Wizard of Oz, so I guess she counts, too. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2010, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-star-trek-cast-so-viciously-typecast/523202/60 "2010-01-05T19:10:11Z")
Becoming so strongly identified with one character that casting directors and audiences don’t see you as anything else is a curse of series television. Sometimes this can be because an actor can play a character so well that it becomes indelible. Henry Winkler nailed the Fonz so well, that he was never given a real chance to be anything else. Michael Richards and Jason Alexander are both quite competent actors, both capable of range, but they are still going to be Kramer and George until the day they die, simply by virtue of nailing those characters so well. On the other side of the coin (and I think this is far more common), the actor is a mediocre talent to begin with, gets lucky with a successful series, but then doesn’t really have any extraordinary talent or ability to keep going after the series ends, and blames “typecasting” when the business loses interest in them. None of the Brady kids, for instance, were anything special as actors. They were appealing and libeable enough, but they weren’t a bunch of little Streeps and De Niros. Same with the TOS cast, frankly, they were ok actors, but nothing special. Shatner had a big enough personality and presence to keep going. Nimoy may have been an example of an actor nailing a series character too well. The rest were – sorry to say it – dime a dozen talents. They should be grateful they hit a jackpot that’s taking care of them for life. There are thousands of other actors just as good as they were (which is to say utterly average) who never get that lucky. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-star-trek-cast-so-viciously-typecast/523202.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-star-trek-cast-so-viciously-typecast/523202.md?page=4)