# Why was the telemarketing thread moved to the Pit? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [October 18, 2012, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-telemarketing-thread-moved-to-the-pit/638122 "2012-10-18T13:39:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-telemarketing-thread-moved-to-the-pit/638122/21 "2012-10-18T16:19:08Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Participants in the thread can continue conversing in tones as reasonable as they like, even in the Pit. Fainting couches are available for anyone overcome by the atmosphere of saucy impertinence and freely uttered oaths. Yes. I don’t even know why we have any forums besides the Pit. If you don’t like insults just go to your fainting couch, wimps. > [@TubaDiva](#): > > You can disagree with a mod action but you can’t be slapping Lynn around personally while you do it. > > If this continues I will close this thread. Why don’t you just move it to the Pit? lol. ---
**Author:** ![Ostrya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/35a633/32.png) [@Ostrya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ostrya)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-telemarketing-thread-moved-to-the-pit/638122/22 "2012-10-18T16:38:22Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I’ll split the difference here and say the thread might have been “saveable” for MPSIMS but that given the tone and the OP’s responses, the move wasn’t unreasonable either. Making up reasons **Lynn Bodoni** moved the thread is a bit less reasonable. It would have been easy to keep the discussion civil, maintain thread in the original forum. If posters acted out of line in the thread they should have been dealt with. Moving the thread to another forum on behalf of abusive posters and those that want to pile on, is ridiculous - a snooty power-play, misuse of administrative controls. Is this really the way you think this should have been handled, Marley? Please say it isn’t so. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-telemarketing-thread-moved-to-the-pit/638122/23 "2012-10-18T16:51:34Z")
> [@TubaDiva](#): > > Not only is the thread itself a somewhat inflammatory subject – there’s practically no one outside of Congress that’s hated more than telemarketers and with good reason – the attitude of the OP in that thread is pretty much “I don’t care if my calls annoy people, deal with it.” > > Well, giving the OP grief over this is how people deal with it. > > So yeah, the move to the Pit was appropriate, given the circumstances. I’m going to go out on a limb here and suggest that we (the members) are fully capable of following rules and expressing ourselves, and our feelings, without resorting to 4 letter words and personal insults. Even in “Ask your City Bureaucrat” type threads. (and they score higher than Congressmen in pit worthiness) I’m not criticizing the move other than to point out that the OP probably would not have posted the thread if he thought it was headed for the pit. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-telemarketing-thread-moved-to-the-pit/638122/24 "2012-10-18T17:37:36Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > I’m not criticizing the move other than to point out that the OP probably would not have posted the thread if he thought it was headed for the pit. I think the OP posted that thread to get _exactly_ the responses he was(and is) getting. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-telemarketing-thread-moved-to-the-pit/638122/25 "2012-10-18T17:42:12Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I think the OP posted that thread to get _exactly_ the responses he was(and is) getting. The OP of that thread doesn’t sound like an awesome guy, but I don’t believe he was trolling as you suggest. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-telemarketing-thread-moved-to-the-pit/638122/26 "2012-10-18T17:47:24Z")
> [@the lone cashew](#): > > Is this really the way you think this should have been handled, Marley? Please say it isn’t so. I think there were multiple ways to handle this. The move wasn’t inappropriate, but it could’ve waited. > [@](#): > > a snooty power-play, misuse of administrative controls. Dressing up a minor complaint in business-speak and speculation about someone’s attitude doesn’t make the complaint more substantive, nor does it address the issue. The issue here is whether the thread was headed for the Pit because of the subject, the commentary about what the OP does for a living, and the OP’s attitude toward people who objected to phone surveys. It’s not unreasonable to think the thread was going in that direction and was going to be moved to the Pit anyway, but it hadn’t fully gone there yet and probably could’ve been moderated for a while longer in MPSIMS first. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-telemarketing-thread-moved-to-the-pit/638122/27 "2012-10-18T18:03:39Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I’ll split the difference here and say the thread might have been “saveable” for MPSIMS but that given the tone and the OP’s responses, the move wasn’t unreasonable either. Making up reasons **Lynn Bodoni** moved the thread is a bit less reasonable. I don’t think I made anything up. I inferred her actual intentions, which I believe to be different from those she stated having observed her behavior over the last few years. I’m not going to lose sleep over it, I just think it’s incredibly silly. ---
**Author:** ![Ostrya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/35a633/32.png) [@Ostrya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ostrya)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-telemarketing-thread-moved-to-the-pit/638122/28 "2012-10-18T19:00:04Z")
No one is making up reasons why Lynn Bodoni moved the thread as she was among the frontrunners of those who did not wish to be restrained by, or heed rules of the particular forum - the original forum the OP intended the topic to be posted in. Lynn Bodoni moved the thread so that the OP could be attacked on a personal basis, rather than the thread content - and as she was one of the attackers, a genuine meow move, an abuse of control, and a jerkish thing to do. Since the topic was appropriate for its original forum and since the op chose that forum for their topic especially makes this a bad call. Because the poster is new or unpopular should not have any bearing. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-telemarketing-thread-moved-to-the-pit/638122/29 "2012-10-18T19:04:17Z")
> [@the lone cashew](#): > > No one is making up reasons why Lynn Bodoni moved the thread as she was among the frontrunners of those who did not wish to be restrained by, or heed rules of the particular forum - the original forum the OP intended the topic to be posted in. Lynn Bodoni moved the thread so that the OP could be attacked on a personal basis, rather than the thread content - and as she was one of the attackers, a genuine meow move, an abuse of control, and a jerkish thing to do. > > Since the topic was appropriate for its original forum and since the op chose that forum for their topic especially makes this a bad call. Because the poster is new or unpopular should not have any bearing. I agree with all of this. At the very least, a moderator (even a semi-retired one like Lynn) should be required to request the thread be moved like any other poster, if they are personally involved in the conversation as a poster. Is it extra work to achieve the same result? Yes. But it would at least make everything seem above board. ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-telemarketing-thread-moved-to-the-pit/638122/30 "2012-10-18T19:10:33Z")
Moving a thread to the pit changes it fundamentally. Whether or not he was doing a good job of it, the OP may have started the thread to challenge people’s misconceptions about telemarketing. By moving it, that becomes much harder, if not impossible. Not only is that insulting to the OP it’s totally against the spirit of “fighting ignorance”. Completely out of order. ---
**Author:** ![The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_wind_of_my_soul)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-telemarketing-thread-moved-to-the-pit/638122/31 "2012-10-18T19:12:39Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I’ll split the difference here and say the thread might have been “saveable” for MPSIMS but that given the tone and the OP’s responses, the move wasn’t unreasonable either. Making up reasons **Lynn Bodoni** moved the thread is a bit less reasonable. I think we should split the difference again. > [@Lord\_Ashtar](#): > > Let’s be honest about this. It was moved to the Pit because **Lynn** : > > 1.) doesn’t like people who call her unsolicited and > 2.) she wanted to prove that she still has her mod powers Saying **Lynn Bodoni** moved the thread because she doesn’t like people who called her unsolicited seems like a reasonable assumption to make. She has made her distaste for telemarketers known, even going to far as to say she had hate for the OP (cite [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15602340&postcount=46).) She clearly did not feel any need to caution other posters to reign in their criticism, as is typically the case when a thread starts to get out of hand. I’ll agree with you, **Marley23** , that saying she wanted to prove she still has her mod powers is, indeed, a bit less reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-telemarketing-thread-moved-to-the-pit/638122/32 "2012-10-18T19:23:29Z")
> [@Lord\_Ashtar](#): > > I don’t think I made anything up. > [@the lone cashew](#): > > No one is making up reasons why Lynn Bodoni moved the thread They are, and it’s a distraction and a waste of time. But if you’re agreeing to talk about the actual thread move and moderation then we can put that in the rear view mirror. > [@](#): > > she was among the frontrunners of those who did not wish to be restrained by, or heed rules of the particular forum The only post she made before moving the thread was MPSIMS-appropriate, but I agree that this didn’t look right given her participation in the thread. Leaving it for someone else to move (or not) would have prevented that problem. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-telemarketing-thread-moved-to-the-pit/638122/33 "2012-10-18T19:27:11Z")
> [@TubaDiva](#): > > [T]he attitude of the OP in that thread is pretty much “I don’t care if my calls annoy people, deal with it.” I think this is the essence of why the move was justified. It wasn’t just the subject of the _ask the_ thread. It was the inflammatory attitude of the OP. In a relatively few number of posts, several things came out–the “you have to ask exactly right or we won’t take you off,” the quasi-flame of “people don’t listen to my questions!” and the arrogant “we’re justified in calling people back even though they said not to (based on the mere fact that someone has a phone.” These were the attitudes and subjects that got people riled up, not the ins and outs of being a survey-caller. That could have been an interesting thread, but the OP’s attitude set its tone down a different path, one that (IMHO) led to the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-telemarketing-thread-moved-to-the-pit/638122/34 "2012-10-18T19:41:21Z")
Yes, **Flyer** was plenty confrontational about the subject. And that’s an issue of the content of the thread, not the “popularity” of the poster. > [@Ask the person who calls people--telephone surveys](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-person-who-calls-people-telephone-surveys/638056/1): > > Another issue, somewhat related, is the people who think that they can get us to quit calling them simply by saying something like “Quit calling” or “Stop calling me.” That’s not how it works. My company (and apparently most such companies) is VERY persistent. We do maintain our own internal Do Not Call list, but the only way to get on it is to specifically request it. Saying anything other than “Take me off your list” or something equally explicit will simply result in you getting called back. > > I’ve occasionally had people ask me “What do I have to do to get you to stop calling?” I usually say something along the lines of “Well, we’re trying very hard to get this survey completed.” It’s not considered good form to come right out and say, “If you had taken our survey the first time we called, we wouldn’t be bothering you now.” > [@Ask the person who calls people--telephone surveys](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-person-who-calls-people-telephone-surveys/638056/9): > > Not interested in doing the survey? Too bad–do it anyway or be bugged until that particular project ends. > […] Plus, I’ve never been one to really care what other people think. So your comment doesn’t bother me at all. > [@Ask the person who calls people--telephone surveys](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-person-who-calls-people-telephone-surveys/638056/31): > > About “harassment”–#1, people choose to have a phone in their house/on their person. #2, they choose to answer it. It’s “harassment” that they voluntarily consent to. > [@Ask the person who calls people--telephone surveys](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-person-who-calls-people-telephone-surveys/638056/88): > > In other words, you want somebody who will break down crying the first time a customer gets really nasty. > > I’ve seen that happen more than once in low-paying jobs. As evidenced by this thread, a lot of people can be really unpleasant to someone else, merely because of the type of job that person has. I can take it just fine, and I can respond in kind when I feel it’s appropriate, but a lot of people can’t. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-telemarketing-thread-moved-to-the-pit/638122/35 "2012-10-18T19:41:54Z")
> [@TubaDiva](#): > > the attitude of the OP in that thread is pretty much “I don’t care if my calls annoy people, deal with it.” Replace “calls” with “moderating,” and it also speaks to the state of the SDMB moderation. Incidentally, “arbitrary bullshit” works too. > [@TubaDiva](#): > > You can disagree with a mod action but you can’t be slapping Lynn around personally while you do it. > > If this continues I will close this thread. Because threatening that has helped so much before. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-telemarketing-thread-moved-to-the-pit/638122/36 "2012-10-18T20:10:25Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > That example by **Czarcasm** is also a bad call. Bearflag was stating a perfectly reasonable opinion and was doing so in a reasonable and polite manner. There was no justification to move the thread that asked people why they don’t signal to the Pit just to insult one of the respondents. Yeah but czarcasm really really really wanted to call that guy an asshole. > [@Marley23](#): > > The issue here is whether the thread was headed for the Pit because of the subject, the commentary about what the OP does for a living, and the OP’s attitude toward people who objected to phone surveys. It’s not unreasonable to think the thread was going in that direction and was going to be moved to the Pit anyway, but it hadn’t fully gone there yet and probably could’ve been moderated for a while longer in MPSIMS first. So you’re saying that the thread was heading for the pit and you mods have no means to keep that from happening? So you mods no longer have the means to warn people to keep it civil or you’ll start handing out warnings? Or to tell people who want to bash the OP to start a pit thread? ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-telemarketing-thread-moved-to-the-pit/638122/37 "2012-10-18T20:10:58Z")
I moved the thread to the Pit because I have awesome precog powers. I could foresee that if I left the thread in MPSIMS, that someone (and it wasn’t gonna be me) would have to start issuing Notes and/or Warnings to a bunch of posters. Then either the thread would have been closed and a new thread started in the Pit, or the original thread would have been moved into the Pit. The only difference would be how many posters got noted or warned. I can get my admin fix by zapping spammers. That’s actually more fun, really. I LOVE it when I see a spammer, check it out, see that it’s creating a new thread, and I zap it before it’s completed the new thread. Moving the telemarketing thread was more of a little bit of housekeeping, like picking up a scrap of paper that’s fallen to the floor. ---
**Author:** ![The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_wind_of_my_soul)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-telemarketing-thread-moved-to-the-pit/638122/38 "2012-10-18T20:12:46Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Yes, **Flyer** was plenty confrontational about the subject. And that’s an issue of the content of the thread, not the “popularity” of the poster. Okay, you had me totally convinced until I went back to actually look at the thread. Many of those quotes were taken out of context. > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by **Flyer** > Not interested in doing the survey? Too bad–do it anyway or be bugged until that particular project ends.\ The full quote says > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by **Flyer** > Based on personal experience and a small amount of cursory research, it seems that most survey companies act the same way. Not interested in doing the survey? Too bad–do it anyway or be bugged until that particular project ends. He is attributing this attitude to all survey companies, rather than personally espousing it. > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by **Flyer** > About “harassment”–#1, people choose to have a phone in their house/on their person. #2, they choose to answer it. It’s “harassment” that they voluntarily consent to. This is in response to a person asking him how his job is not against Colorado state law regarding harassment. It’s not confrontational, it’s an explanation of the technicalities of law. > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by **Flyer** > In other words, you want somebody who will break down crying the first time a customer gets really nasty. > > I’ve seen that happen more than once in low-paying jobs. As evidenced by this thread, a lot of people can be really unpleasant to someone else, merely because of the type of job that person has. I can take it just fine, and I can respond in kind when I feel it’s appropriate, but a lot of people can’t. This was not posted until after the thread was moved to the pit. All that being said … I think my question has been answered and we’ve come to an agreement. You agree that in the future, it would be better for this to be reported to a moderator not participating in the exchange to have moved the thread, and some cautionary notes prior to moving the thread might have been appropriate. The reasoning behind moving this is because if a thread gets out of control and the original poster is not shying away from the criticism, reporting it, or otherwise requesting that the thread be closed or posters back off, the Pit is the appropriate forum for them to hash it out. Thank you for explaining this to me. ---
**Author:** ![zagloba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/977dab/32.png) [@zagloba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zagloba)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-telemarketing-thread-moved-to-the-pit/638122/39 "2012-10-18T20:22:41Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > I moved the thread to the Pit because I have awesome precog powers. I could foresee that if I left the thread in MPSIMS, that someone (and it wasn’t gonna be me) would have to start issuing Notes and/or Warnings to a bunch of posters. Then either the thread would have been closed and a new thread started in the Pit, or the original thread would have been moved into the Pit. The only difference would be how many posters got noted or warned. Why not automatically move all threads to the pit? Think of all the work it would save for the moderators! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-telemarketing-thread-moved-to-the-pit/638122/40 "2012-10-18T20:27:19Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > So you’re saying This is another one of those phrases… > [@](#): > > that the thread was heading for the pit and you mods have no means to keep that from happening? We do have means to try and keep threads from going off the rails or prevent people from breaking the rules, and as I said, it would’ve been better to give this one some more time in MPSIMS. But yes, there are also some topics you can’t do very much with, and those tend to get closed or wind up in the Pit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-telemarketing-thread-moved-to-the-pit/638122.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-the-telemarketing-thread-moved-to-the-pit/638122.md?page=3)