# Why was this bar collecting our names? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 25, 2009, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-this-bar-collecting-our-names/515064 "2009-10-25T17:11:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-this-bar-collecting-our-names/515064/21 "2009-10-26T16:49:09Z")
> [@Sidney Evgeni Jordan](#): > > Everyone who watches Law and Order knows you should pay with cash. 🙂 I’ve been in stores that now demand to see my ID when I pay with cash. Yes, really! I just leave the things I’m about to purchase on the counter and leave. You want to see my ID? Here it is. Read it with your eyes. You want to scan it? Forget it. The data is not going into your database. Besides, if I use a credit card, you can’t ask to see my ID, nor deny the purchase if I refuse to show it to you. ---
**Author:** ![brossa](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brossa/32/3040_2.png) [@brossa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brossa)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-this-bar-collecting-our-names/515064/22 "2009-10-26T17:33:33Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Why not? I did let them know that I wouldn’t buy alcohol there again. Frankly, as I rarely buy it anyway it’s not any kind of a hardship for me and it certainly won’t affect their bottom line. I sympathize with the manager insofar as this system takes the decision out of the hands of the checkers, which can be helpful for two reasons: less pressure/harassment for the teenaged checkers to deal with and also less opportunity for said checkers to let their friends skate through buying booze. Still, as a general principle, once the ID scanner system is in place, who knows what profitable applications for the data will be discovered by the management in the future. It’s not like I had any warning that they were going to go with the new system; would I be warned if six months from now they decided to keep track of the info that they now claim that they don’t keep track of? It’s easier to trust them when they lack the capacity than it is to trust them when they have the capacity but promise that they won’t use it. I know that I already leave a huge amount of electronic spoor as it is; I just appreciate the ability to make the occasional anonymous cash purchase, and since there are other places in town that will allow me to do this, I’ll go with them instead. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-this-bar-collecting-our-names/515064/23 "2009-10-26T18:28:55Z")
Another possibility is that the bar was in an area that by law limits on-site alcohol sales to “private clubs.” When you swipe your card, you join the club. It’s kind of an antiquated law, but some areas still have them. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-this-bar-collecting-our-names/515064/24 "2009-10-26T19:08:25Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > I’ve been in stores that now demand to see my ID when I pay with cash. Yes, really! I just leave the things I’m about to purchase on the counter and leave. > > You want to see my ID? Here it is. Read it with your eyes. You want to scan it? Forget it. The data is not going into your database. Besides, if I use a credit card, you can’t ask to see my ID, nor deny the purchase if I refuse to show it to you. Says who? Many stores ask for further ID if you use a credit card to make sure its yours. There’s no constitutional right to use a credit card. It can be refused at management’s whims. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-this-bar-collecting-our-names/515064/25 "2009-10-26T19:44:41Z")
> [@BwanaBob](#): > > It can be refused at management’s whims. But according to most CC merchant agreements, they cannot. They are supposed to check the signature but not require further ID for the use of the card. There are some loopholes, but in general, your signature is what authorizes the transaction according to MasterCard and Visa. ---
**Author:** ![MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-this-bar-collecting-our-names/515064/26 "2009-10-26T19:59:53Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > I’ve been in stores that now demand to see my ID when I pay with cash. Yes, really! I just leave the things I’m about to purchase on the counter and leave. > > You want to see my ID? Here it is. Read it with your eyes. You want to scan it? Forget it. The data is not going into your database. Besides, if I use a credit card, you can’t ask to see my ID, nor deny the purchase if I refuse to show it to you. Are you buying things that you need to be of a certain age to legally purchace (smokes, booze) or are you buying a bottle a salsa and a bag of chips? If I was buying said salsa and chips with cash and was asked for ID, I think I might also walk out. (and maybe accedently drop the bottle of salsa on the floor of the store while I was putting it back) ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-this-bar-collecting-our-names/515064/27 "2009-10-26T21:05:41Z")
**BwanaBob** said: > [@](#): > > Says who? The issuers of the credit cards establish the rules by which merchants approve said credit cards. These agreements stipulate that the card owner’s signature is all that is required for a cc purchase. The sig on the receipt must match the sig on the card (which is why you are supposed to sign the card when you get it). These agreements also stipulate the liability for fraudulent purchases - does the merchant eat it or the CC company. There is no constitutional right to CC use, and merchants can refuse them, but if they accept cards from a company, they are bound by the agreement they have with that company. If you run into a merchant not abiding by that agreement, you can report them to the cc company, and they will then evaluate whether to continue with that merchant. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-this-bar-collecting-our-names/515064/28 "2009-10-26T21:11:53Z")
> [@Sidney Evgeni Jordan](#): > > Everyone who watches Law and Order knows you should pay with cash. 🙂 And put gloves on before you handle the cash. ---
**Author:** ![pan1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e495f1/32.png) [@pan1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pan1)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-this-bar-collecting-our-names/515064/29 "2009-10-26T21:12:10Z")
Asking for your ID when you use a credit card may violate the card agreement - but if the signature on the CC is unreadable, they will ask to see an ID so they can check the signature there. Otherwise they’d have to deny you the abilty to use the credit card due to no signature to compare to. Ideally, they’d deny you just because the credit card is not signed properly, but they don’t want to lose a possible valid sale. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-this-bar-collecting-our-names/515064/30 "2009-10-26T21:15:39Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > …Besides, if I use a credit card, you can’t ask to see my ID, nor deny the purchase if I refuse to show it to you. You are correct, but if you’re buying something age-restricted (booze, tobacco, porn, etc) it’s a moot point. You aren’t buying IDed for the credit card, you’re being carded for the restricted items. Retailers are paranoid (rightly so) over making underage sales. They risk fines, loss of licence, bad press, and even lawsuits over selling to a minor. The cashiers themeselves face being fired on the spot (for cause=no unemployment) for any underage sale. We could make retailers less uptight about this stuff, but that would involve stuff like lowering the fines, making it harder to revoke their licences, and limiting their civil liability. No elected official in his right mind would argue for that. ---
**Author:** ![Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troy_mcclure_sf/32/4150_2.png) [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-this-bar-collecting-our-names/515064/31 "2009-10-26T21:23:49Z")
> [@Todderbob](#): > > It may or may not have kept records, but if it didn’t, the scanner is to read the embedded electronic thing-a-ma-jig that has your name and DOB embedded. That’s what I always assumed (based on nothing, though). It pops up on the screen to bust you when your card says “McLovin, 4/4/1976” but the strip has your real name & age. ---
**Author:** ![MannyL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@MannyL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MannyL)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-this-bar-collecting-our-names/515064/32 "2009-10-27T03:25:18Z")
CC companies only require the signature on the card to match the slip. In cases where you are being asked to show ID to prove your age for an age restricted purchase the CC agreements do not forbid that. ---
**Author:** ![missouri65](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/74df32/32.png) [@missouri65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missouri65)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-this-bar-collecting-our-names/515064/33 "2009-10-27T04:02:11Z")
I got a birthday card from a club mailed to my parents’ address after visiting the club about a month before my birthday. My parents live a couple of hours away from me and from the club. My friend, who’d been with me at the club, also received one at her parents’ address. At least some of the time, they are collecting the information for their own use. It was a bit disconcerting. ---
**Author:** ![IAmNotSpartacus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@IAmNotSpartacus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IAmNotSpartacus)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-this-bar-collecting-our-names/515064/34 "2009-10-27T04:34:44Z")
> [@ivn1188](#): > > I don’t need a cite. Then your claim has little, if any, credibility. ---
**Author:** ![ivn1188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e480ec/32.png) [@ivn1188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivn1188)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-this-bar-collecting-our-names/515064/35 "2009-10-27T05:39:30Z")
> [@IAmNotSpartacus](#): > > Then your claim has little, if any, credibility. As opposed to asking someone to prove a negative? Court docket and case info in many many counties is available online and it contains names and DOBs. I guess the judicial system is my cite. Let’s have a cite explaining how dangerous it is for people to have your name and DOB. ---
**Author:** ![Mesquite-oh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a183cd/32.png) [@Mesquite-oh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mesquite-oh)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-this-bar-collecting-our-names/515064/36 "2009-10-27T06:05:56Z")
Originally Posted by **Sidney Evgeni Jordan** > [@](#): > > Everyone who watches Law and Order knows you should pay with cash. > [@gigi](#): > > And put gloves on before you handle the cash. …and make sure that you are aware that every parking garage or bodega keeps meticulous records stretching back months… A local grocery store use to have your name pop up on the checkout computer screen after you swiped your ATM card, thanking you for shopping with them. It was creepy, thinking that they were recording when you came in and what you bought (though the cashiers denied that they were keeping data). They stopped doing it after a month or so. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-this-bar-collecting-our-names/515064/37 "2009-10-27T14:13:38Z")
> [@Mesquite-oh](#): > > Originally Posted by **Sidney Evgeni Jordan** > > …and make sure that you are aware that every parking garage or bodega keeps meticulous records stretching back months… Which are in a handwritten ledger book readily available on the counter… ---
**Author:** ![Turble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Turble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turble)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-this-bar-collecting-our-names/515064/38 "2009-10-27T14:54:59Z")
If this video wasn’t so scary it would be funny. [The Big Brother Pizza Shop](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zh9fibMaEk&NR=1) ---
**Author:** ![Man\_With\_a\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cab0a1/32.png) [@Man\_With\_a\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Man_With_a_Cat)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-this-bar-collecting-our-names/515064/39 "2009-10-27T15:27:02Z")
It’s my personal information, if I don’t want to share it, I say no. There’s more than DOB and address on a lot of licenses. If I want a birthday card, I’ll join your club. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-this-bar-collecting-our-names/515064.md?page=1)