# Why was this thread closed? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [February 16, 2011, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-this-thread-closed/571588 "2011-02-16T15:36:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-this-thread-closed/571588/21 "2011-02-17T16:30:11Z")
**the lone cashew** said: > [@](#): > > Rather than expecting anyone to spend time PM’ing, seems more reasonable a moderator take more time donating thought/consideration concerning thread closures and the reason for doing so. In the first place. Maybe there’s more going on that you aren’t privy to. Maybe there’s discussion on the Mod loop about **Trubie** being a troll, and posting privileges being reviewed, but **Czarcasm** doesn’t wish to state such accusations that aren’t resolved in an ATMB thread. Maybe the reason he said to PM him was the same reason that the rule is if you have a question about a poster being banned and no announcement being made, you should PM a mod rather than starting a thread. But you didn’t think about those possibilties, did you? [/rampant speculation] ---
**Author:** ![Ostrya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/35a633/32.png) [@Ostrya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ostrya)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-this-thread-closed/571588/22 "2011-02-17T17:25:35Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > **the lone cashew** said: > > Maybe there’s more going on that you aren’t privy to. Maybe there’s discussion on the Mod loop about **Trubie** being a troll, and posting privileges being reviewed, but **Czarcasm** doesn’t wish to state such accusations that aren’t resolved in an ATMB thread. Maybe the reason he said to PM him was the same reason that the rule is if you have a question about a poster being banned and no announcement being made, you should PM a mod rather than starting a thread. > > But you didn’t think about those possibilties, did you? > > [/rampant speculation] The comment “go look up the word adoption” should negate those possibilities. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-this-thread-closed/571588/23 "2011-02-17T18:18:32Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I reopened the thread one hour ago. “Lots of interesting points of view”, “Worthy of discussion”, “Pretty fascinating topic” and other things have been said of that thread(mostly by those who never posted in the thread before I closed it), and yet _no one_ has posted in it since I re-opened it. Also, not one of you have PMed me for info as to what might be going on, as requested in the same post(#9) where I announced the reopening of the thread. It has had EIGHT posts since you reopened it, yet you have not once bothered to explain here why you closed it, or why you closed it so snarkily. It’s absurd that then you said “any attacks on the OP must be taken to the proper forum”, when you _also_ snarked at the OP. Honestly, why are you even a moderator? ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-this-thread-closed/571588/24 "2011-02-17T18:49:32Z")
I’d still like to know if the brand-new, made-up rules\* that Czarcasm invented just now are unique to IMHO or if they apply to all the non-Pit forums. 1. Insulting the post isn’t ok any more 2. Profanity isn’t ok any more except in the Pot ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-this-thread-closed/571588/25 "2011-02-17T19:14:43Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > I’d still like to know if the brand-new, made-up rules\* that Czarcasm invented just now are unique to IMHO or if they apply to all the non-Pit forums. > > 1. Insulting the post isn’t ok any more > 2. Profanity isn’t ok any more except in the Pot There’s an easy way for you(and others) to find out, but unfortunately it would involve putting aside the brightly colored “Look at me fight the Mods!” banners, and PMing me as was earlier requested. This approach may not rally as many people together, but I can guarantee that you would get an answer. ---
**Author:** ![TubaDiva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tubadiva/32/507_2.png) [@TubaDiva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TubaDiva)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-this-thread-closed/571588/26 "2011-02-17T19:24:39Z")
The thread should probably be closed anyway as the OP has been banned. That along with Czarcasm’s note to you above should be enough for people to understand what has happened here. If not or if you prefer talking to me send me a PM or an email and I will answer you. (Might be later this evening but I will answer you.) ---
**Author:** ![Ostrya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/35a633/32.png) [@Ostrya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ostrya)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-this-thread-closed/571588/27 "2011-02-17T19:32:34Z")
Why shouldn’t the thread be left open allowing others to discuss? Is this a new standard to close threads started by banned posters? ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-this-thread-closed/571588/28 "2011-02-17T19:35:05Z")
I’m asking a question about the rules. This is not a private issue. Or do you think it inappropriate that posters wish to know if swearing is verboten outside the Pit now? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-this-thread-closed/571588/29 "2011-02-17T20:08:48Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > I’d still like to know if the brand-new, made-up rules\* that Czarcasm invented just now are unique to IMHO or if they apply to all the non-Pit forums. > > 1. Insulting the post isn’t ok any more > 2. Profanity isn’t ok any more except in the Pot 1. **Czarcasm** didn’t say either of those things; in fact he said: > [@](#): > > Discuss the question, not the person posing the question. 1. According to the Registration Agreement: > [@](#): > > You are free to express your views in a forceful manner provided you remain civil. Civility doesn’t just include refraining from insults, depending on context it may also include refraining from profanity. And if a thread looks like it could become volatile, a moderator has the authority to insist that a civil tone be maintained. **Fenris** , I’m sure you’re well aware that this is not “making up rules,” it’s always been part of moderation, because it’s been discussed here many times before. And trying to make a moderator instruction in a specific thread into a general rule across the board is disingenuous. You know better than this. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-this-thread-closed/571588/30 "2011-02-17T20:10:45Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > There’s an easy way for you(and others) to find out, but unfortunately it would involve putting aside the brightly colored “Look at me fight the Mods!” banners, and PMing me as was earlier requested. This approach may not rally as many people together, but I can guarantee that you would get an answer. What is with the constant refusal to explain moderator actions inside the forum whose purpose is to air complaints? Why must everything be a PM? ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-this-thread-closed/571588/31 "2011-02-17T20:21:24Z")
> [@A Monkey With a Gun](#): > > What is with the constant refusal to explain moderator actions inside the forum whose purpose is to air complaints? Why must everything be a PM? > **[Face (sociological concept)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_(sociological_concept))** > > In sociology, face refers to a class of behaviors and customs, associated with the morality, honor, and authority of an individual (or group of individuals), and their image within social groups. Face is linked to the dignity and prestige that a person enjoys in terms of their social relationships. This idea, with varying nuances, is observed in many societies and cultures, including Chinese, Arabic, Indonesian, Korean, Malaysian, Laotian, Indian, Japanese, Vietnamese, Filipino, Thai, Persian, Ru... ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-this-thread-closed/571588/32 "2011-02-17T20:31:36Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Civility doesn’t just include refraining from insults, depending on context it may also include refraining from profanity. And if a thread looks like it could become volatile, a moderator has the authority to insist that a civil tone be maintained. > > **Fenris** , I’m sure you’re well aware that this is not “making up rules,” it’s always been part of moderation, because it’s been discussed here many times before. And trying to make a moderator instruction in a specific thread into a general rule across the board is disingenuous. You know better than this. No, honestly I don’t. Since when can moderators make up magic new rules for individual threads? Are you saying that mods can make up any rules they want for a given thread? “Only post in purple” would be a valid mod-instruction GD or GQ thread? Because these new rules are equally bizarre. Czarcasm said (full, not truncated quote) > [@](#): > > I’m going to reopen this thread under the condition that any swearing or “puking” be done over in The BBQ Pit. Discuss the question, not the person posing the question. The word “puking” is a reference to 1 (one) poster who said that “The OP made them want to puke” and, in fact, fits Czarcasm’s instruction to discuss the post. This has _always_ been allowed. One of the primary rules is “Insult the post, not the poster”. “The OP makes me want to puke” is as unambiguous an example of insulting the (Original) Post and not the poster as you can get. In addition, I’ve never, ever seen a “no swearing” rule applied to any thread. Every time I can recall that it’s been brought up, it’s been stated that excessive profanity (no excessive profanity evident in the thread in question) can be Jerkish behavior. One F-Bomb and one S-word is hardly excessive. Civility has _never_ meant an absolute ban on profanity–there’s a very narrow, specific list of words and phrases you can’t use. “I read about a woman who adopted a child and give it back and the shit storm it caused” and “[you can’t just give us back because] We aren’t USED FUCKING CARS!” were the only two profanities used and neither of them were even directed at a poster. Until this new “Threads must be G-Rated lest someone get the vapors!” rule was invented just now. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-this-thread-closed/571588/33 "2011-02-17T20:54:13Z")
Sometimes OP can refer to the Original Poster. Perhaps that is where the perception on a personal insult came from. “The OP made me want to puke” could be referring to the the original poster. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-this-thread-closed/571588/34 "2011-02-17T20:58:45Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Sometimes OP can refer to the Original Poster. Perhaps that is where the perception on a personal insult came from. “The OP made me want to puke” could be referring to the the original poster. Totally true, but your analysis depends on a typo I made. The actual phrasing was as follows: > [@Mahaloth](#): > > This OP makes me want to puke. > > > [@](#): > > > > Uh, what if you don’t like the child that is born to you? I work with a person who fights a lot with her biological daughter. To the point she can’t stand her some time. But it’s her child. Same with adoption. > > Other people have biological kids that are disabled and become expensive. Same for adoptive parents. The word “This” (instead of “The” as I mistakenly typed) plus following it with the actual offensive line from the OP makes it clear that it’s the post, not the poster that makes Mahaloth puke. Sorry for the confusion my typo caused. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-this-thread-closed/571588/35 "2011-02-17T21:03:14Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Totally true, but your analysis depends on a typo I made. The actual phrasing was as follows: > > The word “This” (instead of “The” as I mistakenly typed) plus following it with the actual offensive line from the OP makes it clear that it’s the post, not the poster that makes Mahaloth puke. > > Sorry for the confusion my typo caused. Ah. Fair enough. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-this-thread-closed/571588/36 "2011-02-17T21:08:18Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Since when can moderators make up magic new rules for individual threads? Are you saying that mods can make up any rules they want for a given thread? “Only post in purple” would be a valid mod-instruction GD or GQ thread? Because these new rules are equally bizarre. Please don’t be ridiculous. > [@](#): > > In addition, I’ve never, ever seen a “no swearing” rule applied to any thread. Every time I can recall that it’s been brought up, it’s been stated that excessive profanity (no excessive profanity evident in the thread in question) can be Jerkish behavior. One F-Bomb and one S-word is hardly excessive. > > Civility has _never_ meant an absolute ban on profanity–there’s a very narrow, specific list of words and phrases you can’t use. “I read about a woman who adopted a child and give it back and the shit storm it caused” and “[you can’t just give us back because] We aren’t USED FUCKING CARS!” were the only two profanities used and neither of them were even directed at a poster. Until this new “Threads must be G-Rated lest someone get the vapors!” rule was invented just now. Oh, please. Give us a break, will ya. I think the intent of **Czarcasm’s** instruction was reasonably clear that he wanted people to dial it back. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-this-thread-closed/571588/37 "2011-02-17T21:20:39Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Please don’t be ridiculous. I’ll try not to. Can you not be disingenuous? Czarcasm made up rules for that thread that were contrary to longstanding rules on this board. Trying to pretend that those rules were somehow reasonable or have any precedent or accusing someone who questions these new rules as being “ridiculous” strikes me as an iffy debating technique. > [@](#): > > Oh, please. Give us a break, will ya. I think the intent of **Czarcasm’s** instruction was reasonably clear that he wanted people to dial it back. Then he could have said “Dial it back please” or something similar which would have at least avoided the problem of made-up rules that contradict board rules and custom. Of course, the other problem was that there was nothing _to_ dial back. Have you even read the thread? One use of the word “puke”, one use of the word “shit” and one use of the word “fuck”, _none of which were directed at the poster who started the thread_ is about as benign as it gets in a heated thread. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-this-thread-closed/571588/38 "2011-02-17T21:32:33Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Oh, please. Give us a break, will ya. I think the intent of **Czarcasm’s** instruction was reasonably clear that he wanted people to dial it back. “Go look up the definition of adoption. Thread closed”, is dialing it back? I don’t mind if a mod steps in to tell the kids to pipe down a bit, but **Czarcasm** himself was less than civil and then got all whiny when called on it. The guy has acted so childish in this that not only will he not explain the disconnect between what he has warned others not to do and what he posted himself, but he keeps pouting that no one has PM’ed him. It’s like a twelve year old girl trying to use facebook to get a date to the 6th grade dance. This could have been over before it began if **Czarcasm** acted more mature and respectful in both the original thread and this one. For him to blame others for similar incivility is hypocritical. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-this-thread-closed/571588/39 "2011-02-18T00:46:25Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The thread has been reopened, under the condition that any attacks on the OP be taken to the proper forum. If you have any other questions, please PM me. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > Also, not one of you have PMed me for info as to what might be going on, as requested in the same post(#9) > [@Czarcasm](#): > > There’s an easy way for you(and others) to find out, but unfortunately it would involve putting aside the brightly colored “Look at me fight the Mods!” banners, and PMing me as was earlier requested. This approach may not rally as many people together, but I can guarantee that you would get an answer. # Well, folks, I decided to give Czarcasm a chance to answer, so I followed his advice and sent him a PM. The following is a transcript of the exchanges between us. People may judge for themselves whether he kept his promise to answer. I know what I think. **Peter Morris :** Why did you close the thread? Why were you so snarky about it? Why did you say “any attacks on the OP must be taken to the proper forum”, when you yourself made an attack on the OP? Do you consider yourself to be above the “no personal attacks” rule of this board? And while we’re at it, for what reason was the OP banned? ========================================= **Czarcasm:** Why did you close the thread? A. We suspected that the OP was trolling. Turned out we were right. Why were you so snarky about it? A. Don’t like trolls. Why did you say “any attacks on the OP must be taken to the proper forum”, when you yourself made an attack on the OP? A. I It wasn’t a personal attack so much as a way to let the OP know that WE knew what was going on. Do you consider yourself to be above the “no personal attacks” rule of this board? A. Again, it wasn’t a personal attack. And while we’re at it, for what reason was the OP banned? A. Trolling ======================================== **Peter Morris:** In what way was the OP trolling? What makes you think you were right? What exactly did you mean by telling the OP to go and look up adoption? ======================================== \*\*Czarcasm: \*\* In what way was the OP trolling? A. That would involve private discussions among the moderators and other information that you are not currently privy to. I guess you’ll just have to trust our judgment on this one. What makes you think you were right? A. Same answer What exactly did you mean by telling the OP to go and look up adoption? A. Already answered in my response to your previous list of questions. ======================================== **Peter Morris** “A. Already answered in my response to your previous list of questions.” I don’t recall asking the question before, nor getting an answer previously. Please remind me what your answer was. ======================================== **Czarcasm** I don’t recall asking the question before, nor getting an answer previously. Please remind me what your answer was. A. It was what I meant when I said “a way to let the OP know that WE knew what was going on.” ====================================== **Peter Morris** And what WAS going on, exactly? ======================================== **Czarcasm** A. As was already said, that would involve private discussions among the moderators and other information that you are not currently privy to. I guess you’ll just have to trust our judgment on this one. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-this-thread-closed/571588/40 "2011-02-18T01:03:01Z")
**Peter Morris** , do not bother PMing me again, since you seem to have no concept as to what _Private Message_ means. You didn’t even bother to ask if I minded if you posted our exchange. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-this-thread-closed/571588.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-this-thread-closed/571588.md?page=3)