# Why was Vinz Clortho \[Ghostbusters\] such a dork? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 21, 2003, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-vinz-clortho-ghostbusters-such-a-dork/202998 "2003-09-21T17:02:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2003, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-vinz-clortho-ghostbusters-such-a-dork/202998/1 "2003-09-21T17:02:36Z")
Ok, I’m watching Ghostbusters on TNT - one of the funniest movies ever. Now, if you recall, Sigorney Weaver’s and Rick Moranis’ characters are possessed by the servants of Gozer - Zuul (aka the Gatekeeper) and Vinz Clortho (aka the Keymaster) respectively. So the question is - why was Vinz Clortho possessed Rick Moranis still such a doofus - Talking to horses, knocking over stuff, drinking coffee out of the pot? I would have thought that a demon wouldn’t be such a spaz. Any thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![lawoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/35a633/32.png) [@lawoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawoot)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2003, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-vinz-clortho-ghostbusters-such-a-dork/202998/2 "2003-09-21T17:13:34Z")
A demon named ‘Vince’ (at least, orally)? And you wonder why he’s a spaz? I’d be surprised if he WASN’T. Please note: This is commentary on a DEMON named ‘Vinz (Vince)’, not on PEOPLE named ‘Vince’ ---
**Author:** ![80sHairMetalMaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/8/ed655f/32.png) [@80sHairMetalMaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/80sHairMetalMaven)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2003, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-vinz-clortho-ghostbusters-such-a-dork/202998/3 "2003-09-21T17:18:28Z")
I tend to think that Keymaster wasn’t such a great job, one that sucked the life out of Vinz personally. Plus…the body that Vinz inhabitated was that of a geeky tax preparer. That may be why he was such a dork. MetalMaven ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2003, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-vinz-clortho-ghostbusters-such-a-dork/202998/4 "2003-09-21T17:26:54Z")
Yeah, that’s how I always called it. Vinz was a powerful, lordly, virile GQ-reading demon, and so was terribly disoriented by getting incarnated into Mr. Tully. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-vinz-clortho-ghostbusters-such-a-dork/202998/5 "2003-09-22T15:15:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fiver \* > Yeah, that’s how I always called it. Vinz was a powerful, lordly, virile GQ-reading demon, and so was terribly disoriented by getting incarnated into Mr. Tully. \*\* I don’t know. Vinz was just a little too excited when he was rambing on about Shuvs and Zuuls roasting in the depths of the Sloar and whatnot. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-vinz-clortho-ghostbusters-such-a-dork/202998/6 "2003-09-22T15:46:32Z")
I don’t see anything wrong with the demons taking on some of the personality of their hosts. I thought it pretty obvious that the Gatekeeper took on some of Dana’s sexuality, which she was sort of repressed about in her non-possessed life. We didn’t see that much of Dana possessed to make a clear judgment, though; she never got out of her apartment. What I could not understand is how Peter Venckman was a doctor. Ray and Egon obviously knew their science, but if Peter never studied, where did he get a Ph.D. from? Or was he a medical doctor? He knew enough about medicine to know was “thorazine” is and how to use it. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-vinz-clortho-ghostbusters-such-a-dork/202998/7 "2003-09-22T16:04:38Z")
I always assumed he was a medical doctor who thought it would be more fun to hang around Ray and Egon than to get a real job. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-vinz-clortho-ghostbusters-such-a-dork/202998/8 "2003-09-22T16:22:25Z")
Venckman at least _claimed_ to have “PhDs in psychology _and_ parapsychology”. As **Rick** pointed out, he knew at least something about drugs and had access to them. I would suppose that he was a psychiatrist (thus the authority to prescribe drugs) who decided that going into practice was too much like work. However, license to practice would, I think, have required him to get through Pre-med and med school, among other things. Then he would have gone to grad school to get the advanced degrees. I don’t see how he could have gotten through all that without studying. Maybe Ray just meant that Peter didn’t study much by Ray or Egon’s standards. Of course, Ray also said that Peter had never been out of the university… As for Vinz…it seemed pretty clear to me that the possessors took on some of the personality traits of the possessed, and that the experience was somewhat disorienting. Consider how easily Peter tricked Zuul into letting him into the apartment–would an ancient, powerful Gatekeeper be gulled that easily if it were in full possession (as it were) of its faculties? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-vinz-clortho-ghostbusters-such-a-dork/202998/9 "2003-09-22T19:18:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pepperlandgirl \* > \*\*I always assumed he was a medical doctor who thought it would be more fun to hang around Ray and Egon than to get a real job. \*\* I’m sure Peter was a slacker. But haven’t you ever taken a class, done well enough to pass, then promptly forgotten everything you learned? Besides, Ray was going on about metalurgy and engineering. I’m quite sure one can get a degree in psychology (and maybe even in parapsychology 😉 ) without studying those things. Ray and Egon are probably so geeky that they read up on those kinds of things in their spare time. Not that there’s anything _wrong_ with that… ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-vinz-clortho-ghostbusters-such-a-dork/202998/10 "2003-09-22T20:13:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by 80sHairMetalMaven \* > \*\*I tend to think that Keymaster wasn’t such a great job, one that sucked the life out of Vinz personally. Plus…the body that Vinz inhabitated was that of a geeky tax preparer. That may be why he was such a dork. > MetalMaven \*\* Riiiiiight… Having sex with Dana (Sigorney Weaver) while she’s posessed by Zuul could certainly be–um–draining, but I don’t think it would exactly be without job satisfaction! As for Peter, I always thought a big part of the movie’s charm came from having Murray play a guy obviously smart enough to learn anything, but who instead chose to use his intelligence to get by without **having** to learn anything. Come on, we’ve all known guys like that–for whom BSing their way through a disertation is cake compared to actually having to **do** something. That he chose to hang around two even smarter guys whose social skills made his look good by comparison is exactly what someone like that would do. ---
**Author:** ![FilmGeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@FilmGeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FilmGeek)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-vinz-clortho-ghostbusters-such-a-dork/202998/11 "2003-09-22T21:40:42Z")
To (mis)quote Egon: I once had a slinky. I straightened it. Egon and Ray are nerds… parapsychology nerds. Because Venkman has a ‘life’ and a pretty girl fixation, he didn’t ‘study’. It’s all relative. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-vinz-clortho-ghostbusters-such-a-dork/202998/12 "2003-09-22T22:32:20Z")
The whole Ghostbusters movie has this theme of insanely powerful extra-dimensional beings who act weird because they have no reference points for exsistence in this reality. Gozer herself incarnated as the Staypuff Marshmellow Man, because she had no way of knowing (or, for that matter, caring) about the relative ridiculousness of the form. Zuul was probably just as whacked as Vinz, except she spent most of her incarnation doped up and levitating, and then turned into a dog. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Death](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecccb3/32.png) [@Evil\_Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Death)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-vinz-clortho-ghostbusters-such-a-dork/202998/13 "2003-09-22T22:53:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Balance \* > \*\*As for Vinz…it seemed pretty clear to me that the possessors took on some of the personality traits of the possessed, and that the experience was somewhat disorienting. Consider how easily Peter tricked Zuul into letting him into the apartment–would an ancient, powerful Gatekeeper be gulled that easily if it were in full possession (as it were) of its faculties? \*\* I disagree - I don’t think it’s a personality thing, nor do I think it’s disorientation except insofar as the surroundings are new. Certainly there’s nothing animalistic about Louis Tully, so why would he turn out that way? My answer to the question of why they’re the way they are simple: they’re dogs in rut. The bitch stays still, puts out signals and waits for the dog to arrive; the dog sniffs around for the bitch and does anything he can to reach her from wheedling to violence. To use your Zuul example; when she opened the door to Peter the second time, why didn’t she just slam it in his face again? He’d told her not a minute before that he wasn’t the Keymaster. Instead she asked him again, but this time was willing to mate with him even though he said he wasn’t really the Keymaster. And of course, by the time Vinz actually shows up she’s not actually _asking_ anything. That doesn’t sound like disorientation or Dana Barrett’s personality to me. I think it’s quite clear that she’s looking to mate, and the longer she has to wait, the more she switches from “sexy” to “get over here NOW”. I can only imagine it happens so rapidly because the Keymaster always incarnates very near to the Gatekeeper, and so Zuul isn’t used to waiting for the ritual to be complete. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-vinz-clortho-ghostbusters-such-a-dork/202998/14 "2003-09-23T01:59:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Balance \* > Venckman at least _claimed_ to have “PhDs in psychology _and_ parapsychology”. As **Rick** pointed out, he knew at least something about drugs and had access to them. I would suppose that he was a psychiatrist (thus the authority to prescribe drugs) who decided that going into practice was too much like work. \*\* Why would you think Venckman would concern himself about being licensed to administer drugs any more than he was concerned about the ‘licenseing’ for the proton packs? ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-vinz-clortho-ghostbusters-such-a-dork/202998/15 "2003-09-23T02:45:39Z")
When we first see Venckman, he’s committing the greatest sin a scientist can – falsifying data. Later, he’s a complete asshole to the EPA guy, for no reason; in fact, he’s an asshole throughout the movie, yet somehow loveable. (The poor EPA guy is stuck as the heavy, even though he’s trying to protect the public from what most reasonable people would see as a major hazard.) ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-vinz-clortho-ghostbusters-such-a-dork/202998/16 "2003-09-23T04:36:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Baldwin \* > \*\*When we first see Venckman, he’s committing the greatest sin a scientist can – falsifying data. Later, he’s a complete asshole to the EPA guy, for no reason; in fact, he’s an asshole throughout the movie, yet somehow loveable. (The poor EPA guy is stuck as the heavy, even though he’s trying to protect the public from what most reasonable people would see as a major hazard.) \*\* True, though the EPA guy didn’t even bother studying the ghost containment chamber(the big one) before ordering the city engineer to shut it off. Likely because he was pissed off at Venckman, but if I were trying to shut down a nuclear reactor, I’d like to know how to worked before I did so to make sure I didn’t shut it down the wrong way. Though the EPA guy came off as bit of a prick towards the end as well. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-vinz-clortho-ghostbusters-such-a-dork/202998/17 "2003-09-23T04:47:05Z")
Well, another question we could ask: Why would a sumerian demon pocess a tax accountant instead of someone more normal? Or was it just random based on realtive location? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Death](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecccb3/32.png) [@Evil\_Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Death)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-vinz-clortho-ghostbusters-such-a-dork/202998/18 "2003-09-23T08:00:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by HPL \* > \*\*Well, another question we could ask: Why would a sumerian demon pocess a tax accountant instead of someone more normal? Or was it just random based on realtive location? \*\* You _have_ watched the movie, haven’t you? Egon explicitly explains that the building Dana lives in was designed for the purpose of summoning Zuul and Vinz Clortho, and Dana’s apartment is the one containing the hidden stairwell to the rooftop temple and the focal point for the summoning. Louis got the gig because living next door, he was the next nearest person to the summoning point. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-vinz-clortho-ghostbusters-such-a-dork/202998/19 "2003-09-23T08:20:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Evil Death \* > \*\*You _have_ watched the movie, haven’t you? Egon explicitly explains that the building Dana lives in was designed for the purpose of summoning Zuul and Vinz Clortho, and Dana’s apartment is the one containing the hidden stairwell to the rooftop temple and the focal point for the summoning. Louis got the gig because living next door, he was the next nearest person to the summoning point. \*\* Yeah, I’ve watched it. Though I have to wonder if Dana doesn’t have another neighbor on the other side who would be just as close. Also, wasn’t Louis having a party when the dog came after him? Nice array of people right there. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-vinz-clortho-ghostbusters-such-a-dork/202998/20 "2003-09-23T11:32:48Z")
> [@](#): > > Yeah, I’ve watched it. Though I have to wonder if Dana doesn’t have another neighbor on the other side who would be just as close. Also, wasn’t Louis having a party when the dog came after him? Nice array of people right there. Geeks make the best lovers - too long without nookie. They love all inds of nookie - gaming nookie, PC nookie, Collectable Card Game Nookie… Viz Clortho was just attracted to the most… excitable guy on the block… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-vinz-clortho-ghostbusters-such-a-dork/202998.md?page=2)