# Why wasn't Picard a Brit? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 16, 2013, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-picard-a-brit/655857 "2013-04-16T18:24:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-picard-a-brit/655857/61 "2013-04-17T20:07:28Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Ah, but he was born and raised in the family vineyard in France. I don’t know if they ever specifically identified the locale, but it was pretty clear that’s where it was. The necessary fanwank always seemed simple to me. Picard had a really good English (English language tutor, I mean) and picked up his/her accent perfectly when learning to speak a second language. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-picard-a-brit/655857/62 "2013-04-17T20:19:37Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > In TOS time foreign language speakers had accents still, like Scott and Chekov, but even those are gone by TNG time. Except for Worf’s adoptive human parents (but not his adoptive brother, strangely enough). And that colony of pseudo-Scots that apparently Crusher’s grandmother came from (the one with the weird parasitic sex alien). And apparently Marina Sirtis affected a strange accent that she (and presumably the show runners) fanwanked came from her Eastern European human father. Fans got to wank hard to keep Trek consistent. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-picard-a-brit/655857/63 "2013-04-17T20:45:13Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > And that colony of pseudo-Scots that apparently Crusher’s grandmother came from (the one with the weird parasitic sex alien). And the colony of pseudo-Irish farmers from “Up the Long Ladder”. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-picard-a-brit/655857/64 "2013-04-17T20:48:13Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > In any case, given that Picard and his brother spoke English to each other in France, I assume that English has taken over, and that French and other languages have become like Yiddish in my family - just a faint memory. In TOS time foreign language speakers had accents still, like Scott and Chekov, but even those are gone by TNG time. I can understand Chekov described as a “foreign language speaker,” as Russian is his native language, but isn’t English Scotty’s native language? Yes, he has an accent noticeable to American ears, but so would an Australian. I’m sure Scotty is fluent in Gaelic, but even in this day, the majority of Scots speak English. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-picard-a-brit/655857/65 "2013-04-17T20:56:27Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > I can understand Chekov described as a “foreign language speaker,” as Russian is his native language, but isn’t English Scotty’s native language? Yes, he has an accent noticeable to American ears, but so would an Australian. I’m sure Scotty is fluent in Gaelic, but even in this day, the majority of Scots speak English. I think it was pretty clear that Uhura was a native Swahili speaker, though she had no discernable accent. The fantasy man the Salt Vampire illusioned up for her spoke Swahili, I think. I remember some Trek short story in which Kevin Riley came onto the bridge annoyed at his shore leave being cut short, and started cursing like a sailor. The omniscient narrator notes that the native English speakers were somewhat offended, but Spock and Uhura not only didn’t care but were fairly curious, as he was using the sort of words they hadn’t been able to learn in school. I’ve always liked the image of Uhura surreptitiously recording Riley’s diatribe for future reference. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-picard-a-brit/655857/66 "2013-04-17T20:57:54Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > I can understand Chekov described as a “foreign language speaker,” as Russian is his native language, but isn’t English Scotty’s native language? Yes, he has an accent noticeable to American ears, but so would an Australian. Coming back around, the Patrick-Stewart-As-Jean-Luc-Picard analogue would be if Scotty, complete with kilt and sporran, had invariably replied to Kirk’s requests not with a clenched-jaw _“she cannae take much more, cap’n”_ but with a click of the heels and a prompt _“Jawohl! Mach Schnell!”_ ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-picard-a-brit/655857/67 "2013-04-17T20:58:25Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > I can understand Chekov described as a “foreign language speaker,” as Russian is his native language, but isn’t English Scotty’s native language? Yes, he has an accent noticeable to American ears, but so would an Australian. I’m sure Scotty is fluent in Gaelic, but even in this day, the majority of Scots speak English. Scotty was from the Lowlands, Glasgow or Edinburgh. Those were never Gaelic-speaking areas. Why would you be sure that he was fluent in Gaelic? ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-picard-a-brit/655857/68 "2013-04-17T21:01:49Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > And the colony of pseudo-Irish farmers from “Up the Long Ladder”. Weren’t they from a colony ship launched pre-Federation and out of touch with the rest of humanity? No reason their accents should drift towards Federation Basic or whatever it’s called these days. The variety of English accents heard on the show is a good point, though. Clearly English itself kept a variety of accents instead of drifting towards a standard. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-picard-a-brit/655857/69 "2013-04-17T21:07:52Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > …And apparently Marina Sirtis affected a strange accent that she (and presumably the show runners) fanwanked came from her Eastern European human father… Troi’s weird, peusdo-Slavic accent was supposed to be a _Betazoid_ accent, but none of the other Betazoid characters (including Lwaxana, _her mother_) even bothered so Sirtis dropped it and slipped into a Mid-Atlanic accent. She was also originally supposed to have 3 breasts, but that was dropped before filming. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-picard-a-brit/655857/70 "2013-04-17T21:10:32Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Scotty was from the Lowlands, Glasgow or Edinburgh. Those were never Gaelic-speaking areas. Why would you be sure that he was fluent in Gaelic? Just an assumption, nothing concrete. I might have read it in some novel, but it’s not canon. Anyway, my point is, Scotty isn’t a foreign-language speaker to anyone whose first language is English such as Kirk or McCoy. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-picard-a-brit/655857/71 "2013-04-17T21:15:39Z")
The “Boycott Star Trek 2” brought another (incredibly obvious) TNG example. Chief O’Brien was unabashedly Irish. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-picard-a-brit/655857/72 "2013-04-17T21:20:46Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Scotty was from the Lowlands, Glasgow or Edinburgh. Those were never Gaelic-speaking areas. Why would you be sure that he was fluent in Gaelic? Actually, Scotty was from Aberdeen, as was revealed in “Wolf in the Fold.” Doohan supposedly modeled his accent after an army buddy who was from that city. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-picard-a-brit/655857/73 "2013-04-17T21:33:03Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Troi’s weird, peusdo-Slavic accent was supposed to be a _Betazoid_ accent. Until I found out she was English, I thought she was Israeli and that was her real speaking voice. D’oh! :smack: ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-picard-a-brit/655857/74 "2013-04-17T21:43:01Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I think it was pretty clear that Uhura was a native Swahili speaker, though she had no discernable accent. The fantasy man the Salt Vampire illusioned up for her spoke Swahili, I think. Certainly no discernable _African_ accent. I’d be interested in what real native Swahili speakers think of her speech in “The Man Trap.” I’ve had real Scots tell me that Doohan’s accent was in no way authentic. I’ve also read that Ziva on _ **NCIS** _ (who is Colombian in real life, and not Israeli) consistently mispronounces her Hebrew lines. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-picard-a-brit/655857/75 "2013-04-17T22:05:21Z")
I’ve never heard a real Scot who sounds like Scotty either. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-picard-a-brit/655857/76 "2013-04-17T23:03:05Z")
I think the real question about Picard is when and why the the writers first have him drinking “tea, Earl Grey, hot”? I think it might have happened in “Encounter at Farpoint”. The accent can be wanked, as many here have done, but drinking tea, especially Earl Grey, is stereotypically British. If they wanted him to be French, they should have had him drinking wine (off duty) or French coffee or something like that. The accent can be fanwanked easily, but making him _culturally_ English can’t. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-picard-a-brit/655857/77 "2013-04-17T23:07:25Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > I think the real question about Picard is when and why the the writers first have him drinking “tea, Earl Grey, hot”? I think it might have happened in “Encounter at Farpoint”. It did. He was in his ready room telling Riker how he disliked having to command a ship with families aboard. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-picard-a-brit/655857/78 "2013-04-18T01:04:30Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > I think the real question about Picard is when and why the the writers first have him drinking “tea, Earl Grey, hot”? I think it might have happened in “Encounter at Farpoint”. The accent can be wanked, as many here have done, but drinking tea, especially Earl Grey, is stereotypically British. If they wanted him to be French, they should have had him drinking wine (off duty) or French coffee or something like that. The accent can be fanwanked easily, but making him _culturally_ English can’t. If you want to fanwank it even further, he could have acquired the taste for tea from his English tutor. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-picard-a-brit/655857/79 "2013-04-18T01:10:51Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I think it was pretty clear that Uhura was a native Swahili speaker, though she had no discernable accent. The fantasy man the Salt Vampire illusioned up for her spoke Swahili, I think. He did. She was surprised and delighted that he spoke it. That was how I first learned the existence of the Swahili language, actually… ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-picard-a-brit/655857/80 "2013-04-18T01:23:43Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I’ve never heard a real Scot who sounds like Scotty either. For that matter, Chekov doesn’t sound like a real Russian. Walter Koenig is Jewish and from New York, and he sounds like it. Back in 1967, the only thing he knew about Russian accents was that his grandfather (I think), who was from Russia, had trouble pronouncing the letter “v.” In reality, Russian men sound more like Steve Martin’s Yortuk Festruk when they try to speak English. There is (or at least used to be) a clip on YouTube with Walter playing a GI on _ **Combat!** _. He looks like he’s about 15. (Leonard Nimoy was in a couple of episodes as well, playing GIs who spoke German.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-picard-a-brit/655857.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-picard-a-brit/655857.md?page=5)