# Why wasn't the police officer who killed Eric Garner indicted? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 4, 2014, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271 "2014-12-04T00:06:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/1 "2014-12-04T00:06:47Z")
I don’t know enough about the case to have an informed opinion, but at first glance this looks strange. The officer was stripped of gun and badge (which I assume is synonymous with being fired?) for what he did, which tells me that whatever he did it was not allowed by police policy. That would seem, I would have thought, to obviate any defense of the actions proceeding from the fact that he was ostensibly acting as an officer of the law. So, he did things he wasn’t supposed to do, and in doing so, caused the death of a person. Why was this not something he should have been charged for? ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/2 "2014-12-04T00:10:43Z")
Pretty garbled summary that IMHO is going to lead only to a lot of arm-waving and shouting. [The WP page](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Eric_Garner) seems to be reasonably neutral and accurate and might be a better starting point for discussion. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/3 "2014-12-04T00:10:48Z")
Being stripped of badge and gun is simply an automatic, temporary procedure: whether they get returned or if officer gets fired depend on the results on the investigation. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/4 "2014-12-04T00:13:15Z")
Because the Grand Jury system for addresses police wrongdoing is ineffective. With the prosecutors and the defendants having a professional working relationship, how could it ever be impartial? Would the prosecutor allow a juror that professionally was connected to the defendant stay on a case? Never. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/5 "2014-12-04T00:16:50Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Pretty garbled summary that IMHO is going to lead only to a lot of arm-waving and shouting. To be clear: I did not intend what I wrote to be a summary. I explicitly indicated that it was an incomplete account. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/6 "2014-12-04T00:18:02Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Being stripped of badge and gun is simply an automatic, temporary procedure: whether they get returned or if officer gets fired depend on the results on the investigation. Ah I misunderstood that. Still, the chokehold itself was illegal wasn’t it? (Or anyway, disallowed by police procedure?) ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/7 "2014-12-04T00:34:47Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > So, he did things he wasn’t supposed to do, and in doing so, caused the death of a person. Why was this not something he should have been charged for? Violating department policy is not synonymous with violating the law. On initial look I still find it surprising that this didn’t make at least the grand jury standard of proof for something like negligent homicide/manslaughter but I haven’t paid much attention to New York law or the details of the case as presented. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/8 "2014-12-04T00:42:55Z")
In NY the prosecutor cannot reveal the proceedings without a court order, so we have no idea of what the prosecutor chose to present and how vigorously. Hopefully the DOJ investigation will be more fruitful. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/9 "2014-12-04T01:51:42Z")
Seems this is drawing ire from both sides of the [aisle.](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/03/eric-garner-conservatives-chokehold_n_6264886.html) Ok it’s a Huff Post piece quoting a couple of conservative blogs so it’s hard to tell how much meat there is…without watching Fox News for 3 days straight. Still I loved this quote: > [@](#): > > “Seriously, can you imagine what Sam Fucking Adams would have said at the news that a man had been killed over cigarette taxes,” Charles C.W. Cooke of the National Review posted on Twitter. Sadly the national conversation got diverted to a case that turned out to have more smoke than fire instead of this case. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/10 "2014-12-04T02:53:00Z")
Eric Garner died because he was too fat and asthmatic to be struggling with the police in the way he did. The cops tried talking with him and arresting him peacefully, but that’s not what he wanted to happen. The cops wrestled him to the ground, and yes, the one cop did not use proper technique (although it’s not clear how much of that was choke hold vs wrestling him to the ground). But it’s not clear how much that contributed. Garner was talking after the hold was released and subsequently died. I suspect the focus on the hold is because it is banned by the NYPD. We can talk about whether or not selling loosies should be illegal. But the cops don’t make that call. They enforce the laws and Mr. Garner was clearly breaking the law. There wasn’t excessive force here. Just improper technique and possibly some issue with monitoring/treating Mr. Garner after he had been cuffed. It’s not clear to me what happened after he was subdued. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/11 "2014-12-04T02:56:28Z")
> [@DinoR](#): > > Seems this is drawing ire from both sides of the [aisle.](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/03/eric-garner-conservatives-chokehold_n_6264886.html) > > Ok it’s a Huff Post piece quoting a couple of conservative blogs so it’s hard to tell how much meat there is…without watching Fox News for 3 days straight. Still I loved this quote: > Sadly the national conversation got diverted to a case that turned out to have more smoke than fire instead of this case. Adams was pretty adamant that force could be used to enforce democratically enacted laws. His issue was with kings, not government. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/12 "2014-12-04T04:31:50Z")
The technique is improper and prohibited because it is excessive. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/13 "2014-12-04T05:50:30Z")
In America, cops are very rarely punished when they commit crimes. If you are a cop and you want to get indicted for murdering a civilan, you have to do something like getting videotaped stabbing a nun to death while she prays in church. No guarantees there … I’m sure someone will say she could have been hiding an assault weapon under her robes so he was in reasonable fear of his life. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/14 "2014-12-04T06:03:20Z")
She was going to strangle me with her rosary beads!! ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/15 "2014-12-04T06:10:17Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > In America, cops are very rarely punished when they commit crimes. If you are a cop and you want to get indicted for murdering a civilan, you have to do something like getting videotaped stabbing a nun to death while she prays in church. No guarantees there … I’m sure someone will say she could have been hiding an assault weapon under her robes so he was in reasonable fear of his life. “The nun was seen reaching for her waist.” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/16 "2014-12-04T06:35:54Z")
They do that all the time, force of habit. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/17 "2014-12-04T06:37:37Z")
Typical of these liberal boards, sixteen posts and not even one mention of black-on-black crime. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/18 "2014-12-04T07:52:47Z")
OMFG, it really is never ever the cop’s fault or responsibility with some people, is it? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/19 "2014-12-04T08:29:09Z")
> [@treis](#): > > We can talk about whether or not selling loosies should be illegal. But the cops don’t make that call. They enforce the laws and Mr. Garner was clearly breaking the law. There wasn’t excessive force here… For the benefit of non-Americans, a “loosie” is not a bag of heroin or anything like that. It is _ **a single tobacco cigarette** _ sold for a tiny amount of change. Yes, that’s right. Mr. Garner was arrested (and in the process killed) for selling tiny amounts of tobacco to poor people. In a city where billion-dollar fraudsters drive their Maseratis, immune from prosecution. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/20 "2014-12-04T08:34:16Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > For the benefit of non-Americans, a “loosie” is not a bag of heroin or anything like that. It is _ **a single tobacco cigarette** _ sold for a tiny amount of change. > > Yes, that’s right. Mr. Garner was arrested (and in the process killed) for selling tiny amounts of tobacco to poor people. In a city where billion-dollar fraudsters drive their Maseratis, immune from prosecution. He was breaking the law. Does the fact that some crimes go unpunished mean we shouldn’t bother enforcing any of them? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271.md?page=2)