# Why wasn't the police officer who killed Eric Garner indicted? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 4, 2014, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271 "2014-12-04T00:06:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/521 "2014-12-10T10:23:38Z")
Apparently being arrested a lot makes one a career criminal to some folks, whether or not those arrests result in criminal conviction. I don’t buy it. Not that it’s relevant to whether the police should have killed him or not. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/522 "2014-12-10T10:38:05Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > Would the NYPD tackle kids in the NYU Dorms if an Apple store order arrived with no proof of the use tax being paid? Or are those criminals exempted from this behavior because they are not as disadvantaged? They would if the kids resisted arrest. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/523 "2014-12-10T14:52:11Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > I found a partial list very easily. I wasn’t aware that there was an incarcerated-minimum before career criminals qualify as career criminals??? > > \*At the time of his death, the Port Richmond resident had three misdemeanor cases pending in Stapleton Criminal Court. He was free on $2,000 bail. > > On Aug. 22 of last year, Garner was arrested on School Road and Bay Street, Fort Wadsworth, for allegedly driving without a license, according to a criminal complaint. > > Garner, 43, gave cops a phony name and put himself in more hot water when officers allegedly found untaxed cigarettes and a small amount of marijuana in the 1998 Lincoln Navigator he was driving, the complaint said. > > He was charged with aggravated unlicensed vehicle operation, false personation, possession or sale of untaxed cigarettes and marijuana possession, according to information from District Attorney Daniel Donovan’s office. > > Seven months later, while out on $1,000 bail, Garner was busted on March 28 for allegedly selling unstamped cigarettes on the street outside of 200 Bay St., Tompkinsville. He had 24 packs of untaxed smokes in his possession, police said. > > The location is next door to 202 Bay St., where the fatal confrontation occurred Thursday between cops and Garner. > > Garner was charged with a misdemeanor count of violating the cigarette and tobacco products tax and posted $1,000 bail, online state court records show. > > Garner was arrested again on May 7 on Victory Boulevard and St. Marks Place, Tompkinsville. The site is across the block from Bay Street. > > Cops accused him of possessing six packs of untaxed cigarettes. > > Garner last appeared in court to answer the three cases on July 2. The matters were all adjourned then to Oct. 7, online state court records show.\* > > [Misdemeanor cases over alleged untaxed cigarettes preceded fatal police incident with Eric Garner - silive.com](http://www.silive.com/northshore/index.ssf/2014/07/eric_garner_who_died_in_police.html) These are the pettiest of petty offences. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/524 "2014-12-10T15:07:46Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Apparently being arrested a lot makes one a career criminal to some folks, whether or not those arrests result in criminal conviction. I don’t buy it. Not that it’s relevant to whether the police should have killed him or not. (underline added) Apparently, it does. \*career criminal (kəˈrɪə ˈkrɪmɪnəl) Definitions noun a person who earns his income through criminal activities ⇒ Thomas was an ambitious career criminal, specializing in armed robbery and drug dealing.\* [http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/career-criminal](http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/career-criminal) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/525 "2014-12-10T15:11:46Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (underline added) > > Apparently, it does. > > \*career criminal (kəˈrɪə ˈkrɪmɪnəl) > > Definitions > > noun > a person who earns his income through criminal activities ⇒ Thomas was an ambitious career criminal, specializing in armed robbery and drug dealing.\* > > [http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/career-criminal](http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/career-criminal) This doesn’t support anything you’re saying. Career criminals are convicted of lots and lots of crimes. You’ve failed to show that Garner was convicted of lots and lots of crimes. Being arrested a lot is not the same. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/526 "2014-12-10T15:22:20Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This doesn’t support anything you’re saying. Career criminals are convicted of lots and lots of crimes. You’ve failed to show that Garner was convicted of lots and lots of crimes. Being arrested a lot is not the same. Decisions, decisions… The Collins Dictionary definition doesn’t agree with your definition. Which one should I choose? 😕 Hmmm. I’m gonna have to go with the dictionary. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/527 "2014-12-10T15:26:59Z")
Someone repeatedly illegally selling stuff seems to be pretty much a perfect definition of a career criminal. Regardless of whether you think the things he was selling _should_ be illegal. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/528 "2014-12-10T15:27:11Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This doesn’t support anything you’re saying. Career criminals are convicted of lots and lots of crimes. You’ve failed to show that Garner was convicted of lots and lots of crimes. Being arrested a lot is not the same. I agree. Saying he was a career criminal is asking the reader to conclude that he was repeatedly guilty – which is something that the state was unable to convince a judge or jury to find. > [@Steophan](#): > > Someone repeatedly illegally selling stuff seems to be pretty much a perfect definition of a career criminal. Regardless of whether you think the things he was selling _should_ be illegal. It seems to me that you’re conflating arrest with proof that he did the act. You confidently assert he was repeatedly selling illegal stuff, and for evidence you point to his arrests. But those arrests only show that there was probable cause to believe that he did it --a very low standard that doesn’t justify your confident declaration. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/529 "2014-12-10T15:37:42Z")
> [@Cubsfan](#): > > With that said there are 1000’s of other, more cut and dry, abuses of power by the police against African Americans every year they could have rallied against. This one would be a perfect example. Instead the police issue is counterbalanced by Brown’s actions so no one concedes any ground to either side. The media chooses which stories to focus on. The more ambiguous cases are better for ratings. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/530 "2014-12-10T15:44:26Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > It seems to me that you’re conflating arrest with proof that he did the act. You confidently assert he was repeatedly selling illegal stuff, and for evidence you point to his arrests. But those arrests only show that there was probable cause to believe that he did it --a very low standard that doesn’t justify your confident declaration. Ok, _if_ Garner was repeatedly selling untaxed cigarettes he could fairly be described as a career criminal. My point was more that, even if the crime is minor and you don’t believe it should be a crime, the description can still fit. Not that the nature of any of his alleged crimes apart from resisting arrest have any bearing on whether his killing was illegal. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/531 "2014-12-10T15:49:10Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Decisions, decisions… The Collins Dictionary definition doesn’t agree with your definition. Which one should I choose? 😕 Hmmm. I’m gonna have to go with the dictionary. What are you talking about? You underlined a quote by iiandyiiii saying “Apparently being arrested a lot makes one a career criminal” and tried to prove that was correct by providing a dictionary definition that is “a person who earns his income through criminal activities.” Now you’re claiming that definition says that being arrested a lot makes one a career criminal? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/532 "2014-12-10T16:09:07Z")
Not to mention that I still haven’t seen evidence that Garner earned his income through criminal activities. Not saying he didn’t, but I haven’t seen any numbers. How much did he earn from his illegal activities? How much did he earn in legal ways? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/533 "2014-12-10T17:08:46Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > What are you talking about? You underlined a quote by iiandyiiii saying “Apparently being arrested a lot makes one a career criminal” and tried to prove that was correct by providing a dictionary definition that is “a person who earns his income through criminal activities.” > > Now you’re claiming that definition says that being arrested a lot makes one a career criminal? Yes, Garner was arrested many, many times for violating the law. Yes, Garner earned income from criminal activities. That makes Garner a career criminal. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/534 "2014-12-10T17:10:53Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I agree. Saying he was a career criminal is asking the reader to conclude that he was repeatedly guilty – which is something that the state was unable to convince a judge or jury to find. Is there an actual legal definition of the term “career criminal”? Is Garner’s complete arrest record available to the public? I only found a partial list. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/535 "2014-12-10T17:11:45Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Yes, Garner was arrested many, many times for violating the law. Yes, Garner earned income from criminal activities. That makes Garner a career criminal. How much income did he earn from criminal activities? How much from non-criminal activities? That would seem to be the chief distinction we’d need to know before we could call someone a “Career criminal”. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/536 "2014-12-10T17:14:36Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Yes, Garner was arrested many, many times for violating the law. Yes, Garner earned income from criminal activities. That makes Garner a career criminal. You’re line of reasoning made no sense and I pointed that out to you. You’re not responding to that and instead just repeating claims that aren’t valid conclusions from your own premises. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/537 "2014-12-10T17:15:25Z")
> [@](#): > > …That makes Garner a career criminal. So, how do you suggest we modify our legal codes to fully incorporate and enable your bold new initiative for the legal rights of “career criminals”? Who is going to make this determination? Will the “career criminal” have an opportunity to contest the designation? Preferably, before he is actually dead? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/538 "2014-12-10T18:33:16Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Is there an actual legal definition of the term “career criminal”? No. Repeat felony offenders are sometimes called “habitual offenders,” and there are often state laws defining a habitual offender, but “career criminal,” is not a term of art in criminal law. > [@](#): > > Is Garner’s complete arrest record available to the public? I only found a partial list. His adult arrest record is public, but not Internet-searchable for free. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/539 "2014-12-10T19:14:25Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > How much income did he earn from criminal activities? How much from non-criminal activities? That would seem to be the chief distinction we’d need to know before we could call someone a “Career criminal”. The dictionary definition didn’t include any defining reference to a percentage of income. You may require such a chief distinction, but I don’t. “We” don’t have to refer to Eric Garner as career criminal. I believe Eric Garner is a career criminal based on his multiple arrests for violating various laws. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/540 "2014-12-10T19:19:40Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > The dictionary definition didn’t include any defining reference to a percentage of income. You may require such a chief distinction, but I don’t. “We” don’t have to refer to Eric Garner as career criminal. I believe Eric Garner is a career criminal based on his multiple arrests for violating various laws. So, you who have ordered something on the internet and avoided local taxes are also a “career criminal”? I am a “career criminal”, as is also any other poster in this thread most likely? I don’t make a living by buying things online but the money I save does help me live and would fit your overly broad scope here. Or wait…do you need to be “arrested” and not convicted? Must suck to be a non-white male in NYC. Seeing as “Guilt” of those crimes seems to not matter. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271.md?page=26) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271.md?page=28)