# Why wasn't the police officer who killed Eric Garner indicted? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 4, 2014, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271 "2014-12-04T00:06:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 32
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/621 "2014-12-12T17:52:09Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Garner repeated the words, “I can’t breathe” 11 times. If you can’t breathe, you can’t talk. Well, get the dude to explain what he meant by those words. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/622 "2014-12-12T18:07:42Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > When has that EVER worked for gaining or protecting rights…provide a SINGLE example. Passage of the Nineteenth Amendment. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/623 "2014-12-12T18:12:08Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This is such a nonsense point. People say “I can’t breathe” because they don’t have time in between bouts of not breathing to say “a few seconds ago your chokehold/pressure on my chest put me in a position in which I couldn’t breathe, can you please stop doing that so you don’t restrict my breathing again”. And career criminals lie. Garner lied when he said he hadn’t done anything (illegal). It’s been reported that Garner died of a heart attack in the ambulance. It has not been reported that Garner died from strangulation. The police were not aware of Garner’s poor health. Garner was. Garner chose to resist a lawful arrest. That was a very stupid decision, IMHO, of course. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/624 "2014-12-12T18:14:49Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Well, get the dude to explain what he meant by those words. Right after you get the dude to explain why he chose to resist a lawful arrest. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/625 "2014-12-12T18:18:21Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > {…} Garner lied when he said he hadn’t done anything (illegal). {…} Yup, that was clearly proven at his tria . . . oh wait. CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/626 "2014-12-12T18:20:49Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > And career criminals lie. Garner lied when he said he hadn’t done anything (illegal). There was no trial, so this can’t be asserted factually. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/627 "2014-12-12T18:27:14Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Yup, that was clearly proven at his tria . . . oh wait. > > CMC fnord! Did Garner want a trial? Garner didn’t even want to be arrested. Why, oh, why do the police insist on arresting lawbreakers? :rolleyes: I think I should loot some random store to show my solidarity with career criminals who are tired of being arrested for criminal activity. :rolleyes: Or maybe I’ll sell some professional sports figure a t-shirt to promote my cause. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/628 "2014-12-12T18:31:31Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Passage of the Nineteenth Amendment. Yes women were so effective with their voting to get the 19th amendment passed :smack: Reminder that doorhinge was saying that the minority group should do so, not a sympathetic majority. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/629 "2014-12-12T18:34:19Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > Yes women were so effective with their voting to get the 19th amendment passed :smack: > > Reminder that doorhinge was saying that the minority group should do so, not a sympathetic majority. Hahahaha. I’m saying that EVERYONE should vote and that elected representatives should be held responsible for their actions. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/630 "2014-12-12T18:36:31Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > There was no trial, so this can’t be asserted factually. There was no plea deal either. But Garner would be more familiar with the criminal justice system, given his history of interaction with it. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/631 "2014-12-12T18:36:47Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Hahahaha. I’m saying that EVERYONE should vote and that elected representatives should be held responsible for their actions. Police officers are elected? Or are the exempt because they are not elected? The illegal stop-and-frisk program, which is currently under reform due to the Federal Courts legal ruling is fixed through voting how? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/632 "2014-12-12T19:07:08Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > There was no plea deal either. But Garner would be more familiar with the criminal justice system, given his history of interaction with it. You said Garner lied, and this can’t be factually asserted. This was about that very foolish “I can’t breathe” point, anyway. When someone says “I can’t breathe”, and then dies soon after, and the medical examiner says that the chokehold and chest pressure may have had something to do with the death, then it’s pretty reasonable to assume that they’re not lying about having trouble breathing. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/633 "2014-12-12T19:17:35Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > …When an officer grabbed Garner’s arm in order to handcuff him, Garner pulled away. That’s resisting arrest. … What? He did what? “Pulled away”? I had no idea of the savagery of this career-criminal thug, that changes _everything_! The sheer violence of this man! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/634 "2014-12-12T19:22:32Z")
Oh, about that saying “I can’t breathe” means he could. If you check it _out_, you will realize that forcing air out is a lot easier than drawing it _in_. And it takes longer. You can gulp some air in a split second if the pressure is eased, speaking, you have to articulate. Experiment with a bit of rope to check that, and you will agree. Not on yourself, of course, that could have unfortunate consequences. Try it out on a career criminal thug, you know where to find them. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/635 "2014-12-12T19:23:17Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > Police officers are elected? Or are the exempt because they are not elected? > > The illegal stop-and-frisk program, which is currently under reform due to the Federal Courts legal ruling is fixed through voting how? I have no idea if police officers in your sanctuary are elected. Elected Representative are elected. Elected representatives make, or reform, the laws. Have you ever attended a civics class? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/636 "2014-12-12T19:25:29Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Oh, about that saying “I can’t breathe” means he could. If you check it _out_, you will realize that forcing air out is a lot easier than drawing it _in_. And it takes longer. You can gulp some air in a split second if the pressure is eased, speaking, you have to articulate. > > Experiment with a bit of rope to check that, and you will agree. Not on yourself, of course, that could have unfortunate consequences. Try it out on a career criminal thug, you know where to find them. This post is worthless without pics. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/637 "2014-12-12T19:28:14Z")
Nah, forget it, afraid if you try it we might end up having a thread with people trying to think of something nice to say about you. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/638 "2014-12-12T19:36:05Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > You said Garner lied, and this can’t be factually asserted. This was about that very foolish “I can’t breathe” point, anyway. > > When someone says “I can’t breathe”, and then dies soon after, and the medical examiner says that the chokehold and chest pressure may have had something to do with the death, then it’s pretty reasonable to assume that they’re not lying about having trouble breathing. “May” have had something to do with the death? What does the official report say was the cause of death? You can assume anything after the event but hindsight isn’t available before, or during, the actual arrest. Garner said he hadn’t done anything wrong. Police witnessed Garner violating the law. Sounds to me like Garner was lying but the issue could have been settled later. In either a plea deal or a trial. Except Garner decided that he wasn’t going to be arrested. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/639 "2014-12-12T19:39:57Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > I don’t know judo from a hole in the wall, but when I read " A chokehold shall include, but is not limited to, **any pressure to the throat or windpipe** , which may prevent or hinder breathing or reduce intake of air", a policy switch that at the time was expressed as “Basically, stay the hell away from the neck”, it seems to me that the policy intended to forbid any maneuvers that placed an officer’s arm around a subject’s neck. I agree that it’s not perfectly clear, though. It seems pretty clear to me that a blood choke is not prohibited - it does not fall in the category of moves that prevents or hinders breathing. Pretty much everything I know about this case I’ve learned in this thread, but even still a conclusion is gelling in my head. The police handled the situation very poorly. They escalated to a much too high a level of force, way too early. The police need to be better at using an appropriate level of force, because the communities that they should be trying to help already feel like this is typical behavior by the police, and the police are seen as enemies due to this. Part of the police’s overreaction included the use of a blood choke hold, which technically would not be against the police regulations (not being an air choke). They also cuffed the guy while he was on his chest, and cops were piled on his back. It was the prone position with people on his back, along with leaving him lying down, that eventually killed him, not the choke hold. In looking for justice, people concentrated on the choke hold because it seemed to be something that was objectively prohibited, and not a gray-area problem like escalating the situation way too quickly. But I can’t see how the choke hold could have caused his death, and from reading the regulation it’s technically allowable. The quick escalation and overreaction is what killed him, but that’s harder to prosecute. The black community there was right to be angered by the police’s actions in this case, but the choke was a red herring. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/640 "2014-12-12T20:50:57Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > “May” have had something to do with the death? What does the official report say was the cause of death? [Garner’s death was found by the New York City Medical Examiner’s Office to be a result of compression to the neck, compression to the body, and prone positioning.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Eric_Garner#Investigation_and_grand_jury) Have you read anything at all about this case? > [@](#): > > Police witnessed Garner violating the law. Cite? Why do you keep making things up? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271.md?page=31) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271.md?page=33)