# Why wasn't the police officer who killed Eric Garner indicted? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 4, 2014, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271 "2014-12-04T00:06:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 38
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/741 "2014-12-23T01:04:49Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Being Mirandized is a prerequisite to being _questioned_, not being arrested. He was under arrest pretty much the moment the encounter began. Well, gosh, put it that way, makes the whole notion of arresting a dead guy seem rather silly. Lucky for me you were here! ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/742 "2014-12-23T13:21:01Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Being Mirandized is a prerequisite to being _questioned_, not being arrested. He was under arrest pretty much the moment the encounter began. And he died in police custody. Kind of like what you hear about happening in China. Go Police! ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/743 "2014-12-23T16:26:14Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Well, gosh, put it that way, makes the whole notion of arresting a dead guy seem rather silly. Lucky for me you were here! Very lucky, indeed. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/744 "2014-12-23T16:34:24Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > And he died in police custody. Kind of like what you hear about happening in China. Go Police! No, it isn’t, but don’t let that stop you. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/745 "2014-12-23T16:43:08Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > An interesting albeit trivial point: was he actually under arrest when he died? Had he been read his rights? The right to remain silent was more or less moot, at that point, of course. Could have been tried in _absentia extremis_, I suppose, though his whereabouts would be known, to a fine certainty. > > Though, as a criminal kingpin, he was probably well versed. “Kingpin”? When did Garner get promoted? I’ve heard that Garner was read his Carmen Miranda rights. _You have the right to wear silly hats. You have the right to wear fruit on your hat. You have the right to speak English with a Brazilian accent. You have the right to say, “CHICA CHICA BOOM”, and mean it_. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/746 "2014-12-31T22:21:12Z")
A couple of questions: Garner as a “career criminal” - how many times was he arrested? The news reports I have seen report 3 arrests in a fairly short period, but 30+ arrests are being cited here. Did he have additional arrests or is there confusion between the number of arrests and the 30+ charges (apparently a separate charge for each individual pack of cigarettes) in the 3 arrests I have read about. Garner was apparently first approached due to reports he was selling “loosies”. Is this actually illegal in itself, or only if they are being sold from an untaxed pack? In which case, were the police justified in arresting him only on suspicion that, since he had sold untaxed cigarettes before, he was doing it again, without actually seeing whether he had an untaxed pack in his possession? ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/747 "2015-01-01T00:48:18Z")
I think the liberal outrage over Garner’s death could have been avoided if his killers would have justified his killing in light of the fact that he was avoiding taxes. Liberals show little concern when the hated tax evader suffers at the heel of the jackboot. They do not throw their support behind decriminalization of entrepreneurial activities. This would be a good time for that, but support for the underclass is secondary to taxation and the sundry schemes they can fund from its proceeds. Conservatives, on the other hand, should be championing the cause of Garner’s defiance of big government. They pretend to be pro-market, but that is secondary to childish allegiance to authority and “rule of law”. “Rule of law”, as I tried to explain to a conservative who thought he was libertarian, is a mirage as long as there is a class of people who are granted special privilege. The race of Garner influences both liberal and conservative rhetoric on the issue. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/748 "2015-01-01T02:07:02Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > I think the liberal outrage over Garner’s death could have been avoided if his killers would have justified his killing in light of the fact that he was avoiding taxes. Liberals show little concern when the hated tax evader suffers at the heel of the jackboot. They do not throw their support behind decriminalization of entrepreneurial activities. This would be a good time for that, but support for the underclass is secondary to taxation and the sundry schemes they can fund from its proceeds. > > Conservatives, on the other hand, should be championing the cause of Garner’s defiance of big government. They pretend to be pro-market, but that is secondary to childish allegiance to authority and “rule of law”. “Rule of law”, as I tried to explain to a conservative who thought he was libertarian, is a mirage as long as there is a class of people who are granted special privilege. > > The race of Garner influences both liberal and conservative rhetoric on the issue. This is an inaccurate categorization of liberals. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/749 "2015-01-02T15:03:06Z")
> [@Bookkeeper](#): > > A couple of questions: > > Garner as a “career criminal” - how many times was he arrested? The news reports I have seen report 3 arrests in a fairly short period, but 30+ arrests are being cited here. Did he have additional arrests or is there confusion between the number of arrests and the 30+ charges (apparently a separate charge for each individual pack of cigarettes) in the 3 arrests I have read about. > [@](#): > > (Eric Garner) has a criminal record that includes more than 30 arrests dating back to 1980 on charges such as assault, resisting arrest and grand larceny. [Cite](http://www.wsj.com/articles/new-york-city-police-officer-wont-face-criminal-charges-in-eric-garner-death-1417635275). > [@](#): > > Garner was apparently first approached due to reports he was selling “loosies”. Is this actually illegal in itself, or only if they are being sold from an untaxed pack? I believe the illegal part is that the cigarettes are untaxed in NYC. > [@](#): > > Mr. Warner said he bought his cigarettes — almost always Newports — for a bit over $50 a carton from smugglers who get them in states like Virginia, where the state tax is well under a dollar a pack. [Cite.](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/05/nyregion/05loosie.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0) > [@](#): > > In which case, were the police justified in arresting him only on suspicion that, since he had sold untaxed cigarettes before, he was doing it again, without actually seeing whether he had an untaxed pack in his possession? I don’t believe it has been established that the police arrested him because he was known to have sold loosies before. They received complaints from one or more of the shopkeepers in the area that he was selling such cigarettes. He was out on bail for the same offense, and police were cracking down on the sale of untaxed cigarettes as NYC has been raising cigarette taxes of late, but AFAIK that was not the only established basis for the detention/arrest. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![BOOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c4cdca/32.png) [@BOOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BOOM)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/750 "2015-01-02T15:11:34Z")
Right, Apple, Amazon, Google, Microsoft - all avoiding $billions tax for decades, and the cops go after a guy selling a pack of smokes. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/751 "2015-01-02T15:20:47Z")
> [@BOOM](#): > > Right, Apple, Amazon, Google, Microsoft - all avoiding $billions tax for decades, and the cops go after a guy selling a pack of smokes. There is a difference between tax avoidance (legal) and tax evasion (illegal). ---
**Author:** ![BOOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c4cdca/32.png) [@BOOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BOOM)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/752 "2015-01-02T16:46:54Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > There is a difference between tax avoidance (legal) and tax evasion (illegal). Dude, you ever wonder why that’s the case - like it’s the case with non-criminal actions of Wall Street bankers or US politicians? Who creates the laws? Here’s a clue: There is NO difference in what’s made available to the US public through the tax authorities - it’s zero either way. Repeating a bogus corporate mantra does not legitimise the act. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/753 "2015-01-02T16:56:14Z")
> [@BOOM](#): > > Dude, you ever wonder why that’s the case - like it’s the case with non-criminal actions of Wall Street bankers or US politicians? Who creates the laws? > > Here’s a clue: There is NO difference in what’s made available to the US public through the tax authorities - it’s zero either way. > > Repeating a bogus corporate mantra does not legitimise the act. Hardly. Tax avoidance means not paying more tax than you should, tax evasion means paying less tax than you should. Ideally, one should be paying the taxes owed, and avoiding paying those that aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/754 "2015-01-02T17:15:32Z")
> [@BOOM](#): > > Here’s a clue: There is NO difference in what’s made available to the US public through the tax authorities - it’s zero either way. I don’t know what this means, if anything. Do you believe there are no tax deductions or exemptions available to the US public? Or are you saying that corporations should pay taxes for which they are not liable? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![BOOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c4cdca/32.png) [@BOOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BOOM)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/755 "2015-01-02T17:28:39Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I don’t know what this means, if anything. Do you believe there are no tax deductions or exemptions available to the US public? Or are you saying that corporations should pay taxes for which they are not liable? > > Regards, > Shodan I’m saying if you make money in a jurisdiction you pay taxes related to that revenue in that same jurisdiction. Anything else facilitates the public in that jurisdiction not being adequately compensated for permitting that corporation to trade. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/756 "2015-01-02T17:38:48Z")
> [@BOOM](#): > > I’m saying if you make money in a jurisdiction you pay taxes related to that revenue in that same jurisdiction. > > Anything else facilitates the public in that jurisdiction not being adequately compensated for permitting that corporation to trade. You pay taxes according to the tax laws in that jurisdiction. Tax avoidance is people avoiding paying taxes that they are not obliged to pay - in other words, not over-compensating the public. ---
**Author:** ![BOOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c4cdca/32.png) [@BOOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BOOM)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/757 "2015-01-02T17:44:20Z")
Exactly - the tax system is a bogus coroprate construct enacted by bribed politicians. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/758 "2015-01-02T17:57:16Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Hardly. Tax avoidance means not paying more tax than you should, tax evasion means paying less tax than you should. Ideally, one should be paying the taxes owed, and avoiding paying those that aren’t. But those Big Evil corporations legally not paying taxes they don’t have to is unfair and evil. Why do I have to pay taxes when they pay taxes? It’s not fair. They are Big and Evil and unfair and evil. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/759 "2015-01-02T18:02:26Z")
> [@BOOM](#): > > Exactly - the tax system is a bogus coroprate construct enacted by bribed politicians. What do you mean “exactly”? The fact that corporations pay the amount of tax required by law means that the construct is bogus? WTF does this mean? Again, if anything. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/760 "2015-01-02T20:03:52Z")
> [@BOOM](#): > > Exactly - the tax system is a bogus coroprate construct enacted by bribed politicians. No, it isn’t. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271.md?page=37) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271.md?page=39)