# Why wasn't the police officer who killed Eric Garner indicted? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 4, 2014, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271 "2014-12-04T00:06:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/141 "2014-12-04T19:59:06Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Bullshit. Notwithstanding this one and others that you disagree on, you admitted that the Groubert shooting (gas station in South Carolina) was due to misconduct. Yes, I did. I apologize. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/142 "2014-12-04T20:00:18Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > We sorely need an independent agency for cases involving the police Isn’t that what a grand jury _is_? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/143 "2014-12-04T20:01:33Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > The hemorrhaging resulting for a prohibited choke hold. Does it matter if Garner died from asphyxiation or bleeding from his arteries? He still died because the cop used excessive force for a misdemeanor crime. Since this was not his first offense selling unlicensed cigarettes, it would have been a Class E felony, not a misdemeanor. In any event, the choke (which may or may not have been prohibited) wasn’t applied because he was selling cigarettes, it was applied because he resisted arrest. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/144 "2014-12-04T20:06:24Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > You contradict yourself. I am large. I contain multitudes. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/145 "2014-12-04T20:11:41Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > OMFG, it really is never ever the cop’s fault or responsibility with some people, is it? Actually, you’re clearly wrong there. If the cops are federal officers and it’s a white rancher some anti-tax whacko it’s definitely the fault of the cops. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/146 "2014-12-04T20:12:00Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > The reactions of the “good folks” of Ferguson is the only reason why non-Ferguson residents are even aware of this issue. Their passion have rubbed off on others. This is how protests work. Yes, and what I - and others - are saying is that, in this case, this is unfortunate. > [@](#): > > Of course not. I just don’t see what that matters. It matters because you are arguing I (and presumably others) have no right to comment. > [@](#): > > Without Ferguson being in the news, we very well might not even be talking about Garner right now, so making this all be about _cause célèbre_ betrays shallow thinking. There is exactly zero evidence this is true. > [@](#): > > Ferguson has put police brutality on the national news, making it a subject of analysis in way it hasn’t been in decades. Rather than seeing Garner as an isolated incident, more people see it as fitting a larger pattern of police abuse. A pattern that has become intolerable. Again, this is the kind of thing protests aim to do. … and it would be better for all concerned if it was a different case that had done that. Such as one of the other two cases mentioned. > [@](#): > > Dude, just stop. How about you stop with the ad homs, and start with making arguments based on facts and evidence rather than your presumptions about the posters who oppose your points? Probably too much to ask, I know. ---
**Author:** ![LeaveMeAlone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c4cdca/32.png) [@LeaveMeAlone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LeaveMeAlone)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/147 "2014-12-04T20:19:50Z")
Before I start, I’ve been a police officer in a major American city for 10 years… You have a man who doesn’t want to go to jail…what do you expect the police to do? Wait? Come back later? What? Please tell me. You’re the cop, the guy is getting arrested and says “Bite me, I ain’t going to jail!” Now what? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/148 "2014-12-04T20:20:01Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > If the cops are federal officers and it’s a white rancher some anti-tax whacko it’s definitely the fault of the cops. I, for one, would have been pleased as punch if Bundy and his racist, un-American, borderline-treasonous whackadoodle fellow travelers had gotten the exact same kind of treatment that people seem to think all black suspects automatically get. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/149 "2014-12-04T20:23:58Z")
> [@LeaveMeAlone](#): > > Before I start, I’ve been a police officer in a major American city for 10 years… > > You have a man who doesn’t want to go to jail…what do you expect the police to do? Wait? Come back later? What? Please tell me. You’re the cop, the guy is getting arrested and says “Bite me, I ain’t going to jail!” Now what? 1. Clearly inform the person he or she is under arrest and why they are being arrested. 2. If they still say “Bite me, I ain’t going to jail!” use appropriate force to subdue them. 3. “Appropriate force” in this case means appropriate under the circumstances - taking into account the dangers to the officers involved, to the public, and to the suspect; using methods of force approved by the professional standards of the police in that jurusdiction. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/150 "2014-12-04T20:25:16Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I, for one, would have been pleased as punch if Bundy and his racist, un-American, borderline-treasonous whackadoodle fellow travelers had gotten the exact same kind of treatment that people seem to think all black suspects automatically get. Have you considered the possibility that black suspects and perpetrators might be more likely to get such treatment than white suspects and perpetrators for the same crimes? If you have, does this possibility bother you? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/151 "2014-12-04T20:26:24Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > The hemorrhaging resulting for a prohibited choke hold. Does it matter if Garner died from asphyxiation or bleeding from his arteries? He still died because the cop used excessive force for a misdemeanor crime. Except it wasn’t a prohibited choke hold. Garner died because he refused to be arrested - again. Garner was fed up with being arrested for repeatedly violating the law. How dare these police officers arrest people for violating the laws of Staten Island. Garner was very familiar with police proceedures if only from a habitual criminals viewpoint. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/152 "2014-12-04T20:29:31Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Have you considered the possibility that black suspects and perpetrators might be more likely to get such treatment than white suspects and perpetrators for the same crimes? If you have, does this possibility bother you? If true, then yes. People who commit crimes should be punished as the law provides for regardless of their skin color. I would be strongly disappointed if a white person were given more leniency than a black person on the basis of race. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/153 "2014-12-04T20:31:26Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Isn’t that what a grand jury _is_? No, a grand jury has a very different role to play in the process than the District Attorney does. A grand jury makes a decision based on the evidence presented to it, the concerns lie with the people presenting the evidence: do they have a conflict of interest, given how closely they work with the police on the vast majority of cases, in which the accused isn’t a police officer? Are they deliberately or subconsciously doing a substandard job pursuing indictments? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/154 "2014-12-04T20:36:00Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > … I would be strongly disappointed if a white person were given more leniency than a black person on the basis of race. Don’t know quite how to break this to you, perhaps you should sit down… Every\* fucking\* day. Day in, day out, twenty-four, seven, three sixty five… ---
**Author:** ![LeaveMeAlone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c4cdca/32.png) [@LeaveMeAlone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LeaveMeAlone)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/155 "2014-12-04T20:39:26Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > 1. Clearly inform the person he or she is under arrest and why they are being arrested. > > 2. If they still say “Bite me, I ain’t going to jail!” use appropriate force to subdue them. > > 3. “Appropriate force” in this case means appropriate under the circumstances - taking into account the dangers to the officers involved, to the public, and to the suspect; using methods of force approved by the professional standards of the police in that jurusdiction. Ok, so appropriate force, meaning what? baton strikes? Punch him in the face? A taser? And what if the guy still dies? Do you understand how difficult it is to subdue someone? Let alone someone the size of Eric Garner… There is a place to air your grievances with the cops…it’s called a courtroom…not the street Hopefully, this case will put an end to the antiquated broken windows theory of policing in NYC that put these cops in the situation to be enforcing petty tax violations and ultimately leading to Eric garner’s death…to die over something as petty as loose cigarettes…shame on the NYPD ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/156 "2014-12-04T20:44:12Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Don’t know quite how to break this to you, perhaps you should sit down… > > Every\* fucking\* day. Day in, day out, twenty-four, seven, three sixty five… Then clearly white people need to be treated much worse than they are now. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/157 "2014-12-04T20:43:40Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Yes, and what I - and others - are saying is that, in this case, this is unfortunate. Yes, I know. Brown’s death didn’t sufficiently knock the socks off you. We get it. There wasn’t a high res tape showing him executed in cold blood. 'Tis a pity. And he wasn’t a little boy scout. Thus, you and others think it was “misfortunate” so much ado was made over him and not a more pitiable, more recognizable victim. And I’m saying this attitude is problematic on multiple levels. Bad cops flourish when the public thinks like this, as it allows them to abuse anyone that isn’t a choir boy and not catch any flak for it. It also assumes your view of Brown is the correct one, as opposed to a biased one. Many of the protestors think Brown is a recognizable victim. Just as recognizable as Garner, Rice, or anyone else. There’s no valid reason to call these protests “misfortunate” when they’ve done a lot to change public awareness about police brutality. > [@](#): > > How about you stop with the ad homs… I haven’t used any, so I don’t know what you’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/158 "2014-12-04T20:46:30Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > It’s easy to stand behind hypotheticals that have an almost zero chance of happening, isn’t it? Well, it’s not quite the same, but there was the case of the white homeless guy beaten to death by cops where moments before a Mexican American cop is heard saying to the white guy “See these fists! They are about to fuck you up!” I can’t remember if Smapti was in that thread defending the cop or not but I suspect he was doing his usual Schtick. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/159 "2014-12-04T20:46:51Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > There is absolutely no _law_ prohibiting a police officer in the state of New York, nor the city of New York, from using a chokehold … Is there any law against killing a citizen? One who poses no threat? > [@Smapti](#): > > I would be strongly disappointed if a white person were given more leniency than a black person on the basis of race. Then you must spend your life either in a state of deep disappointment or blissful unawareness: > [@](#): > > Prison sentences of black men were nearly 20% longer than those of white men for similar crimes in recent years, an analysis by the U.S. Sentencing Commission found. That racial gap has widened since the Supreme Court restored judicial discretion in sentencing in 2005, according to the Sentencing Commission’s findings [http://online.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887324432004578304463789858002](http://online.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887324432004578304463789858002) ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/160 "2014-12-04T20:52:04Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Yes, I know. Brown’s death didn’t sufficiently knock the socks off you. We get it. There wasn’t a high res tape showing him executed in cold blood. 'Tis a pity. And he wasn’t a little boy scout. Thus, you and others think it was “misfortunate” so much ado was made over him and not a more pitiable, more recognizable victim. Brown out ran his sandals. Does that count? After a physical confrontation between Brown and Wilson, Brown ran away, turned, and advanced towards Wilson. Brown now presented a threat to Wilson. Wilson ended the threat. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271.md?page=9)