# Why wasn't the police officer who killed Eric Garner indicted? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 4, 2014, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271 "2014-12-04T00:06:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 1\ **Showing post:** 645
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271/645 "2014-12-12T22:59:23Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (post shortened) > > - Some people disagree with your opinion and have written books on the subject. > > \*Inside the Criminal Mind > Understanding the dark side of human conduct > by Stanton E. Samenow, Ph.D. > > …Criminals have long terrorized individuals, groups, and nations. Again, through the Internet, the scope of their operations expands exponentially, and they can contact millions of potential recruits to join their terror organizations. > > However, even if the type of crime and modus operandi (“MO”) are new, the criminal’s basic thinking patterns and outlook in life do not change. In the revised 2014 edition of Inside the Criminal Mind, I take the reader on tour of the criminal mind and describe in detail the thought patterns at work. Criminals like the man who told me, “Crime is like ice cream; it’s delicious” find excitement in whatever is illicit and whatever facilitates conquests and a buildup of themselves. Shutting off fears of consequences and denying conscience, the criminal is heedless of the price that others pay for his adventures, whether the victim is an individual or a large corporation. “Take my crime away and you take my world away,” one offender declared, reflecting the timeless mentality that I have come to know so well over the decades of my research and clinical practice dealing with criminals\*. > > [Has the "Criminal Mind" Changed? | Psychology Today](http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/inside-the-criminal-mind/201411/has-the-criminal-mind-changed) > > [Stanton E. Samenow Ph.D. | Psychology Today](http://www.psychologytoday.com/experts/stanton-e-samenow-phd) Does Dr. Samenow argue that all criminals have the same “basic thinking patterns”? If so, how is this established and studied? > [@doorhinge](#): > > - What do you consider to be “knife range” or a “reasonable” distance? 21 feet? 35 feet? The opposite side of the street? How do officers control a situation from hailing distance? Sure, 21-30 feet. Far enough so that the individual doesn’t feel cornered and trapped, close enough to prevent flight. > [@doorhinge](#): > > - Are other countries police forces facing the same criminal mindset that U.S. police are facing? Why wouldn’t they? You just told me that all criminals share common thought patterns and outlook on life. > [@doorhinge](#): > > - Two days ago - > > A plainclothes police officer photographed aiming his gun at protesters in Oakland, California, on Wednesday was protecting himself and his partner from a “mob” that had encircled them, according to a California Highway Patrol official. > > [http://www.policeleak.com/undercover-police-officer-points-gun-at-california-protesters/](http://www.policeleak.com/undercover-police-officer-points-gun-at-california-protesters/) > [@](#): > > Browne’s account conflicted with a report from KTVU that alleged the tense scene began when one of the officers pushed a protester after their identities had been revealed. Police claim that their conduct was justified, other accounts differ. Shocking. In any case, the above incident didn’t spring from a mob attacking police officers making an arrest. > [@doorhinge](#): > > - Yes, Garner wanted to fight. He didn’t strike anyone or threaten anyone. What’s the basis for your claim here? > [@doorhinge](#): > > Garner chose to resist arrest. Garner made the wrong choice. He and he alone? You never answered that one. > [@doorhinge](#): > > - Garner (and Brown) committed crimes and didn’t want to be arrested for committing those crimes. The protestors, looters, rioters, and arsonists are angry that criminals are being arrested. First off, you don’t know that Garner committed a crime. Second, no, protestors aren’t angry that criminals are being arrested. That’s either a massive strawman, or you are completely out of touch with the other side in this matter. > [@doorhinge](#): > > - Which culture? The culture that suggests it’s OK to commit crimes against store owners? That culture doesn’t exist, or at least not in any meaningful way. I refer to a police culture that regards civilians as enemies, that employs force in the face of any non-compliance, that is willing to hurt and kill members of the public on flimsy pretexts. > [@CurtC](#): > > It seems pretty clear to me that a blood choke is not prohibited - it does not fall in the category of moves that prevents or hinders breathing. If the NYPD intended to ban blood and air chokes, how would that phrase in the patrol guide be any different? Any act of placing an arm around a neck consists of putting pressure on the throat, and can hinder breathing. Again, the chief of police at the time characterized the policy shift as “Basically, stay the hell away from the throat”. Allowing one kind of dangerous arm-around-the-throat move and not another doesn’t square with that. > [@CurtC](#): > > Pretty much everything I know about this case I’ve learned in this thread, but even still a conclusion is gelling in my head. > > The police handled the situation very poorly. They escalated to a much too high a level of force, way too early. The police need to be better at using an appropriate level of force, because the communities that they should be trying to help already feel like this is typical behavior by the police, and the police are seen as enemies due to this. > > Part of the police’s overreaction included the use of a blood choke hold, which technically would not be against the police regulations (not being an air choke). They also cuffed the guy while he was on his chest, and cops were piled on his back. It was the prone position with people on his back, along with leaving him lying down, that eventually killed him, not the choke hold. This I agree with. The choke hold is part of the problem, but not the whole thing. > [@CurtC](#): > > In looking for justice, people concentrated on the choke hold because it seemed to be something that was objectively prohibited, and not a gray-area problem like escalating the situation way too quickly. But I can’t see how the choke hold could have caused his death, and from reading the regulation it’s technically allowable. The quick escalation and overreaction is what killed him, but that’s harder to prosecute. > > The black community there was right to be angered by the police’s actions in this case, but the choke was a red herring. The medical examiner was of the opinion that the chokehold contributed, and I see no reason to dispute that, unless you have some evidence. --- _[View the full topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-the-police-officer-who-killed-eric-garner-indicted/706271)._