# Why wasn't West Virginia returned to Virginia after the Civil War? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 15, 2009, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-west-virginia-returned-to-virginia-after-the-civil-war/513874 "2009-10-15T05:27:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-west-virginia-returned-to-virginia-after-the-civil-war/513874/21 "2009-10-15T18:20:11Z")
> [@MichaelQReilly](#): > > The same thing is going on with the part of Virginia on the Chesapeake penninsula. Going back earlier, before Bermuda was split off it was part of the Virginia Colony. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-west-virginia-returned-to-virginia-after-the-civil-war/513874/22 "2009-10-15T18:31:11Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > There’s also been an on-again-off-again movement here to split California into North and South California, but it’s never gotten very far either. Which would create the diet states: Low Cal and No. Cal. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-west-virginia-returned-to-virginia-after-the-civil-war/513874/23 "2009-10-15T18:32:01Z")
Yes, but Bermuda was split off in 1615, and at that time, the Virginia Company had the rights from Cape Fear to the Long Island Sound. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-west-virginia-returned-to-virginia-after-the-civil-war/513874/24 "2009-10-15T18:35:19Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > There’s also been an on-again-off-again movement here to split California into North and South California, but it’s never gotten very far either. Which will never be settled because we can’t decide who gets stuck with Bakersfield. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-west-virginia-returned-to-virginia-after-the-civil-war/513874/25 "2009-10-15T19:36:05Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > New York merchants had a lot of business interests in the South, and really took a financial hit when Southern plutocrats abrogated their debts after Ft. Sumter. I’ve always wondered how much that had to do with why some of the up-to-their-eyeballs-in-debt plutocrats were so gung ho on secession: win and your debts are gone, lose and you can say “I wasn’t foreclosed on, I lost it in the war”. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-west-virginia-returned-to-virginia-after-the-civil-war/513874/26 "2009-10-15T20:03:57Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > I’ve always wondered how much that had to do with why some of the up-to-their-eyeballs-in-debt plutocrats were so gung ho on secession: win and your debts are gone, lose and you can say “I wasn’t foreclosed on, I lost it in the war”. As my priest likes to say, “I never met a motive that wasn’t mixed.” 😉 ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-west-virginia-returned-to-virginia-after-the-civil-war/513874/27 "2009-10-15T20:36:29Z")
Just to further clarify: Even after recognizing West Virginia, the United States continued to recognize the Unionist [restored government of Virginia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restored_government_of_Virginia) as the government of the remaining portion of the Commonwealth (although the “restored government of Virginia” at most controlled those portions of Virginia that were directly occupied by Union troops at any given time). During the war Virginia thus had no less than three would-be state governments, owing allegiance to two different proclaimed national federal governments: 1.) the government of the Commonwealth of Virginia (CSA), claiming all of what are now Virginia and West Virginia (but never actually controlling that entire territory; e.g., Union troops occupied the areas directly across the Potomac from Washington, D.C., for the duration of the entire war); 2.) The Restored Government of Virginia (USA), claming (but not really controlling) all of the modern state of Virginia, and eventually recognizing the State of West Virginia (USA) in the northwestern portion of Virginia as a fellow state of the Union, _a la_ Massachusetts and Maine; 3.) The government of the State of West Virginia (USA), whose actual territorial control I’m sure fluctuated as well, though I think they did better than the RGVA did. One can imagine Harry Turtledove writing an alternate history in which they all spend years arguing about the shape of the conference table in Paris. ---
**Author:** ![St.Anger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@St.Anger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/St.Anger)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-west-virginia-returned-to-virginia-after-the-civil-war/513874/28 "2009-10-15T21:38:47Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > And there was plenty of precedent before this: > [ul] > [li]Alabama & Mississippi were both parts split off from Georgia.[/li][li]Maine was formed from the northern part of Massachusetts.[/li][li]The midwest states (Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Michigan, and part of Wisconsin and Minnesota) were formed from the Northwest territory that was previously part of Massachusetts, Connecticut, New York, and Virginia (their claims to this land overlapped, in several places).[/li][/ul] My post said “past 100 years or so”, the examples you listed are from before the Civil War. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-west-virginia-returned-to-virginia-after-the-civil-war/513874/29 "2009-10-15T21:58:51Z")
From time to time there are rumblings of the UP splitting off from the rest of Michigan, but nothing ever comes of it. ---
**Author:** ![Number](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/number/32/242_2.png) [@Number](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Number)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-west-virginia-returned-to-virginia-after-the-civil-war/513874/30 "2009-10-15T23:20:14Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > Which would create the diet states: > > Low Cal and No. Cal. Also, consider the Mexican perspective. Their portion is already split into Baja (Lower) California and Baja California Sur. Our part is Alta (Upper) California. So if this went through, there would be Upper Upper California, Lower Upper California, Lower California, and Lower California South. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-west-virginia-returned-to-virginia-after-the-civil-war/513874/31 "2009-10-15T23:37:20Z")
> [@Markxxx](#): > > 1. The US Congress says "Since the elected congressmen of Virgina have left and there is no one there anymore, we’ll replace those elected US Senators and Representatives, with the new ones elected by the people in Wheeling. Strictly speaking, the Wheeling conventions could send nobody to Congress. Representatives have to be elected by the people at large, and Senators by the Legislature. Rather, the first Wheeling convention urged area Unionists to conduct their own elections to the US House of Representatives, which they did on May 23, 1861. And the _restored Virginia Legislature_–that is, those members who didn’t support secession–assembled (also in Wheeling) in July and elected two US Senators. Note that there were two distinct bodies in Wheeling–the restored legislature of Virginia, and the conventions which organized the future West Virginia. Some persons were members of both bodies. When Congress assembled on July, the House seated the three Unionists elected in May, and the Senate expelled the absent pro-Confederate incumbents and seated the two Unionists elected earlier that month. ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2009, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-west-virginia-returned-to-virginia-after-the-civil-war/513874/32 "2009-10-16T00:34:52Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > There’s also been an on-again-off-again movement here to split California into North and South California, but it’s never gotten very far either. In the 50’s and 60’s the southern part of the state wanted to split off and form a new state but the North blocked it. Now the North would like to split off and rid of the southern part, but the southern part blocks it. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2009, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-west-virginia-returned-to-virginia-after-the-civil-war/513874/33 "2009-10-16T01:47:18Z")
> [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](#): > > When Congress assembled on July, the House seated the three Unionists elected in May, and the Senate expelled the absent pro-Confederate incumbents and seated the two Unionists elected earlier that month. I thought that all of the southern Senators had resigned when their states seceded, except for Andy Johnson? If so, why would the Senate need to expel the Virginia senators? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2009, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-west-virginia-returned-to-virginia-after-the-civil-war/513874/34 "2009-10-16T01:49:52Z")
> [@Number](#): > > So if this went through, there would be Upper Upper California, Lower Upper California, Lower California, and Lower California South. I propose that North Dakota be re-named “Lower Saskatchewan” and South Dakota be re-named “Saskatchewan Sous-sol.” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2009, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-west-virginia-returned-to-virginia-after-the-civil-war/513874/35 "2009-10-16T02:35:49Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > I propose that North Dakota be re-named “Lower Saskatchewan” and South Dakota be re-named “Saskatchewan Sous-sol.” 🙂 Only if Saskatchewan is then called Upper Former North Dakota; New South Wales can finally stop being so smug about having so many descriptors. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2009, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-west-virginia-returned-to-virginia-after-the-civil-war/513874/36 "2009-10-16T02:38:49Z")
> [@MichaelQReilly](#): > > Keep in mind that prior to the railroads, it was much easier to travel by water than by land. So it wasn’t uncommon to see places that were close by water, but far overland be part of the same political unit. Because of the shape of Massachusetts bay, Maine isn’t that far from Boston. The same thing is going on with the part of Virginia on the Chesapeake penninsula. Good point. The Eastern Shore is still kind of like a ham hanging in a smokehouse. I wonder if they’ve ever moved for statehood. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2009, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-west-virginia-returned-to-virginia-after-the-civil-war/513874/37 "2009-10-16T02:58:24Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Good point. The Eastern Shore is still kind of like a ham hanging in a smokehouse. I wonder if they’ve ever moved for statehood. And it would balance out West Virginia with an East Virginia! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2009, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-west-virginia-returned-to-virginia-after-the-civil-war/513874/38 "2009-10-16T03:02:08Z")
I think DelMarVa is happy with things as they are. ---
**Author:** ![MC\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c77e96/32.png) [@MC\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MC_E)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2009, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-west-virginia-returned-to-virginia-after-the-civil-war/513874/39 "2009-10-16T03:11:03Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Good point. The Eastern Shore is still kind of like a ham hanging in a smokehouse. I wonder if they’ve ever moved for statehood. There was talk of that, and William Donald Schaefer, the Governor of Maryland at the time, said: “What are they going to call it, Shithouse?” ---
**Author:** ![AWB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@AWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AWB)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2009, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-west-virginia-returned-to-virginia-after-the-civil-war/513874/40 "2009-10-16T03:29:34Z")
Some time ago (in the 1990’s), Gov. George Allen of Virginia was making a speech. Referring to West Virginia, he called them, “The counties that call themselves ‘West Virginia’.” It sounded like he wanted them back. Sorry, 130 years late and a dollar short, Georgie. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-west-virginia-returned-to-virginia-after-the-civil-war/513874.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wasnt-west-virginia-returned-to-virginia-after-the-civil-war/513874.md?page=3)