# Why were African civilizations so technologically far behind? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 4, 2006, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-african-civilizations-so-technologically-far-behind/351215 "2006-04-04T07:13:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2006, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-african-civilizations-so-technologically-far-behind/351215/21 "2006-04-04T19:00:01Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Another problem in Africa is the range of the tsetsefly… > > By the way, just because they didn’t have domesticated horses naturally (and couldn’t use zebras) doesn’t mean they couldn’t import them. as I noted above, Oubangi-Shari had famous cavalry. [Tsetse flies transmit disease to horses, too.](http://www.uen.org/utahlink/activities/view_activity.cgi?activity_id=3023) ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2006, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-african-civilizations-so-technologically-far-behind/351215/22 "2006-04-04T19:04:48Z")
> [@](#): > > Look at the Masai cattle culture, for example…and the fact that after at least two thousand years, not even Europeans or Fertile Crescent dwellers have domesticated the zebra. The problem is that the zebra is unsuitable, not that Africans can’t even figure out horses. Look, I’m not disagreeing with you or Diamond. Just trying to point out further details. Musta been too long, because I don’t recall Diamond bringing this up. It certainly is in Gonick’s books. ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2006, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-african-civilizations-so-technologically-far-behind/351215/23 "2006-04-04T19:05:36Z")
Is there some theory that there is something about Christianity that aided in European dominance, such as rugged individualism or something? ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2006, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-african-civilizations-so-technologically-far-behind/351215/24 "2006-04-04T19:22:18Z")
> [@Bearflag70](#): > > Is there some theory that there is something about Christianity that aided in European dominance, such as rugged individualism or something? When I think of European Christian dominance, I think of Catholic monks forcibly converting Central and South America to the faith. Not exactly a prime example of rugged individualism IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2006, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-african-civilizations-so-technologically-far-behind/351215/25 "2006-04-04T19:30:00Z")
> [@Bearflag70](#): > > Is there some theory that there is something about Christianity that aided in European dominance, such as rugged individualism or something? Not sure, but having a large religion with lots of subjects supporting the priests & monks, would give the clergy more leisure time to sit around and study things, contemplate the universe, make copies of texts, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2006, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-african-civilizations-so-technologically-far-behind/351215/26 "2006-04-04T19:30:23Z")
Of course, another factor is simple luck. Even if all parts of the world were on an equal footing (which, of course, they’re not), someone would end up on the top of the tech race. It just so happens that, the way history actually played out, it happened to be the European societies. And the fact that humans originated in Africa doesn’t give the Africans any particular advantages. The African peoples haven’t been around any longer than those who eventually settled elsewhere; they just stayed in the same place for longer. And I’m not aware of any particular reason why a settled people should advance any more quickly than a mobile people. ---
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2006, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-african-civilizations-so-technologically-far-behind/351215/27 "2006-04-04T19:34:36Z")
> [@](#): > > Oh get a frigging grip. “Dem dar Niggers is Dumb!” as a driving force in world history? Linking to a wiki article which has ‘Dispute’ warnings all over it plus several paragraphs pointing out fundamental flaws in the data and interpretation of the original ‘study’? Please don’t bother paying the membership fee. What the fuck is this? There are some major problems with this theory, such as that low IQs are to a high degree caused by bad nutrition. And the data is not that good. But why does that allow an attack on the poster? I don’t think its terribly stupid to consider that IQ might be a factor. And if IQ is a factor it is certainly not stupid to point to some data about it, which may or may not be correct. > [@](#): > > Is there some theory that there is something about Christianity that aided in European dominance, such as rugged individualism or something? Considering how christianity’s rule halted scientific research, I think it is rather a huge factor against european dominance. But that is not a discussion for this forum I suspect. ---
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2006, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-african-civilizations-so-technologically-far-behind/351215/28 "2006-04-04T19:41:42Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by levdrakon: > Not sure, but having a large religion with lots of subjects supporting the priests & monks, would give the clergy more leisure time to sit around and study things, contemplate the universe, make copies of texts, etc. Yeah, they made a lot of copies of religious texts, and studied a lot of religious texts. They probably also did some research of small value. But if we consider that these were intelligent and educated people, it is certain that they could have achieved much more researching proper stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2006, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-african-civilizations-so-technologically-far-behind/351215/29 "2006-04-04T20:03:34Z")
> [@OneCentStamp](#): > > When I think of European Christian dominance, I think of Catholic monks forcibly converting Central and South America to the faith. Not exactly a prime example of rugged individualism IMHO. True. I just seem to recall reading somewhere that there was some aspect of Christianity that was more condusive to technological growth or expansion than other religions. I could be mistaken. Also, in addition to the Guns Germs theory, I have read elsewhere on the Boards that the European powers that dominated South America and Africa were less British and more exploitative of what they found there, whereas the British tended to bring an ethic that invested more in infrastructure, and these reverberations can be felt today. I also vaguely recall reading stuff in college about how Africa and South America tend to be stuck in an economic cycle that depends on cash crops, and as the value assembled goods increases relative to the value of cash crops worldwide, these continents find it harder and harder to compete or break the cycle, growing ever more shackled by Western loans. I also seem to recall reading about the fact that the birth rate remains high but the infant death rate has dropped, causing over-population problems, further depleteing resources. The AIDS epidemic may play a part. Does the World Bank contribute to problems? I suppose what I’m getting at is that in addition to the Guns Germs stuff, which may be ultimately at the root of the issue, there are more contemporary factors that contribute to the current status and act as barriers to advancement. As you can tell, I’m hardly an expert and maybe someone with some actual knowledge can expand on these thoughts beyond my vague recollections of things I read 15 years ago in a superficial college class. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Piranha\_Brothers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/aca169/32.png) [@The\_Piranha\_Brothers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Piranha_Brothers)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2006, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-african-civilizations-so-technologically-far-behind/351215/30 "2006-04-04T20:12:38Z")
> [@Bearflag70](#): > > Is there some theory that there is something about Christianity that aided in European dominance, such as rugged individualism or something? There is this theory by Max Weber about the spirit of protestantism. But the countries who looted most were Portugal and Spain, and those were always the poorer of the countries within Western Europe. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2006, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-african-civilizations-so-technologically-far-behind/351215/31 "2006-04-04T20:12:59Z")
> [@mr. jp](#): > > Yeah, they made a lot of copies of religious texts, and studied a lot of religious texts. They probably also did some research of small value. But if we consider that these were intelligent and educated people, it is certain that they could have achieved much more researching proper stuff. But we’re not really discussing why Europeans didn’t advance technologically, _even faster._ It seems a given Europeans advanced faster, and further than Africans. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Piranha\_Brothers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/aca169/32.png) [@The\_Piranha\_Brothers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Piranha_Brothers)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2006, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-african-civilizations-so-technologically-far-behind/351215/32 "2006-04-04T20:18:31Z")
> [@mr. jp](#): > > Considering how christianity’s rule halted scientific research, I think it is rather a huge factor against european dominance. But that is not a discussion for this forum I suspect. Depends. Sure, certain ideas were banned, but because the church never really had much wordly power, it couldn’t actually kill the ideas. Perhaps it is the enormous diversion and competition within pre-modern / early modern Europe? There was a lot of competition, diversity, war, no unifying things whatsoever. Especially where warfare was concerned countries couldn’t afford to get behind with the latest developments. ---
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2006, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-african-civilizations-so-technologically-far-behind/351215/33 "2006-04-04T20:22:42Z")
> [@](#): > > Levdrakon: > But we’re not really discussing why Europeans didn’t advance technologically, even faster. It seems a given Europeans advanced faster, and further than Africans. Ehm, yeah. You were saying christianity was helpful in this aspect because of the monks, Im saying its not so. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2006, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-african-civilizations-so-technologically-far-behind/351215/34 "2006-04-04T20:34:16Z")
> [@CC](#): > > If I remember correctly, I think that a related idea that Diamond points out is that ideas tend to move more easily east and west rather than north and south, for the simple fact that when people migrate, they tend to stay at the same latitudes, to maintain similar climates, growing conditions, etc. And in Africa, a more or less north/south lying continent, migrations tended to not be be north and south and ideas tended to not spread from north to south. In Eurasia, a more or less east/west lying landmass, ideas would tend to spread east/west across the area more rapidly and pollinate a wider area. In the long run this would lead to more new ideas - a more and rapidly developing technology. This was another aspect of geography having an impact on the development of civilizations. Yes, and more specifically, Dimond notes that the Darian Gap (the thin little piece of land separating Meso-America from the Andes) prevented the union of the llama and the wheel. The llama was the only beast of burden left in the Americas after the previous ice age. All the others had died out (presumably because they were hunted to extinction). ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2006, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-african-civilizations-so-technologically-far-behind/351215/35 "2006-04-04T20:38:03Z")
> [@mr. jp](#): > > Ehm, yeah. You were saying christianity was helpful in this aspect because of the monks, Im saying its not so. My main point is, it seems to me, to make technological advancements, you need a leisure class to make them. It was usually priests. Christians had them. Egyptians had them. Aztecs had them. Are there any civilizations that appeared to be on the path towards technological advancement that didn’t, at least initially, have lots of leisurely priests doing most of the advancing? ---
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2006, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-african-civilizations-so-technologically-far-behind/351215/36 "2006-04-04T20:53:29Z")
What scientific advancements did the christian priests make? ---
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2006, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-african-civilizations-so-technologically-far-behind/351215/37 "2006-04-04T21:15:05Z")
> [@](#): > > Depends. Sure, certain ideas were banned, but because the church never really had much wordly power, it couldn’t actually kill the ideas. Hmm, you might want to look into that middle ages thing again. ---
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2006, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-african-civilizations-so-technologically-far-behind/351215/38 "2006-04-04T21:16:45Z")
Sorry, I tend to forget about the “originally posted by” thing. Is there a clever way to make it? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2006, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-african-civilizations-so-technologically-far-behind/351215/39 "2006-04-04T21:49:58Z")
> [@mr. jp](#): > > What scientific advancements did the christian priests make? They invented liqueurs, for one thing, as can be guessed from names of drinks like “Benedictine”. Isn’t that enough? 🙂 If it’s not, there was Roger Bacon, who, when he wasn’t pissing the church hierarcy off, did a bunch of stuff with gunpowder, optics, and physics. There was also Copernicus, who developed the heliocentric theory of the solar system. There were also people like William of Ockham, who, while he didn’t really make any scientific discoveries, did work in logic that helped contribute to later scientific method. ---
**Author:** ![ratatoskK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ratatoskk/32/2987_2.png) [@ratatoskK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ratatoskK)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2006, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-african-civilizations-so-technologically-far-behind/351215/40 "2006-04-04T22:19:06Z")
[hijack] Don’t forget the great contributions of [Isidore of Seville](http://bestiary.ca/prisources/psdetail821.htm) [/hijack] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-african-civilizations-so-technologically-far-behind/351215.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-african-civilizations-so-technologically-far-behind/351215.md?page=3)