# Why were coin operated arcade games so good so early? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 8, 2013, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-coin-operated-arcade-games-so-good-so-early/646491 "2013-01-08T15:59:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2013, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-coin-operated-arcade-games-so-good-so-early/646491/41 "2013-01-14T22:23:59Z")
[http://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale/wholesale-arcade-joystick-parts.html](http://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale/wholesale-arcade-joystick-parts.html) ---
**Author:** ![Airk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de053/32.png) [@Airk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airk)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2013, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-coin-operated-arcade-games-so-good-so-early/646491/42 "2013-01-14T22:24:17Z")
> [@Superhal](#): > > Therefore, you are questioning my memory, not the facts? Actually, at this point I’m questioning your reading comprehension, since this is not the first thread in which you’ve completely misunderstood pretty straightforward assertions, but no, not your memory, theirs. > [@](#): > > Go ahead and cite ANY SOURCE, BETTER THAN MINE which contradicts my facts. I’ve already provided some facts for pricing and the like on these things in the modern era. It is the reconciliation of those facts with your facts that is proving to be challenging, and your attitude is not helping. But here. Here is what some honest arcade grade parts cost now: [http://www.focusattack.com/joystick/seimitsu/](http://www.focusattack.com/joystick/seimitsu/) Note that those are entire ‘stick’ assemblies, including balltop, gate, PCB, and so forth, and if you really just have a defective ‘contact’ (or, in this case, microswitch), all you need is is something like [this](http://www.focusattack.com/sanwa-tp-ma-pcb-assembly/). Now, I’m fully prepared to suppose that joystick design was less modular back then, so maybe you needed to replace the whole thing, but it still seems difficult to reconcile a 6x cost reduction since 1995. These are stock parts we’re talking about, not weird proprietary stuff like twinsticks or something. Also, truthfully, even back then, this stuff wasn’t rocket science - I watched the work being done on more than one occasion and it’s nothing someone with a basic understanding of electrical work (I’m not even going to call it “electronics”, it’s not like you’re repairing circuit boards here) couldn’t do, rather than pay an extra $90 to a tech. That said, I’ll have to do a little research to get the counterpoint you’re probably looking for. I’ll get back to you. ---
**Author:** ![Apocalypso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Apocalypso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apocalypso)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-coin-operated-arcade-games-so-good-so-early/646491/43 "2013-01-15T01:17:32Z")
According to [Wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_age_of_arcade_video_games), "the best-selling arcade games of the golden age, Space Invaders and Pac-Man, had each sold over 360,000 and 400,000 cabinets, respectively, with each machine costing between $2000 and $3000 (specifically $2400 in Pac-Man’s case). So arcade machines in 1982 cost between $2000 and $3000, which doesn’t say anything to how much a joystick cost, but doesn’t make a $100 price seem that unreasonable, especially given the amount of revenue they generated. Again from Wiki: “The total revenue for the U.S. arcade video game industry in 1981 was estimated at more than $7 billion (which would be $17.53 billion in 2012), though some analysts estimated the real amount may have been much higher.” ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-coin-operated-arcade-games-so-good-so-early/646491/44 "2013-01-15T08:35:38Z")
> [@LC\_Strawhouse](#): > > Stand-up (coin operated) video arcade games looked, played and sounded great since the early 80s. At-home games couldn’t achieve that quality for a good 20 years. Why was the quality of coin-operated games so difficult to replicate on other platforms for so long? Something no one has mentioned yet, arcade games used RGB video signals from nearly the beginning whereas home consoles (even some early PCs like Commodore 64 etc) used composite video signals. The difference between composite and RGB is pretty night and day if you see them side by side, no one would prefer playing the same game on composite. This goes mainly for the USA, in Europe they had SCART tvs which had RGB in the 80’s and 90’s, but even home consoles in SCART RGB didn’t always look as good as arcade boards did video quality wise, even not considering the processing power hit. Now with widescreen HDTVs being used in arcades and homes alike, there’s virtually no difference in graphics and picture quality between arcade and consoles. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-coin-operated-arcade-games-so-good-so-early/646491/45 "2013-01-15T08:42:22Z")
> [@Airk](#): > > Because there was nothing to copy? As soon as there was anything established, clone games were popping up all over the place. > > Also, **BigT** - the only time I am aware of that arcade parts and “home” console parts were ever the same was the Neo Geo, which was quite firmly the SNES Era. There’s a ton of arcade boards which are identical or nearly identical to home console hardware. Dreamcast home console is identical to Naomi and roughly the same as Atomiswave. Sega Genesis was basically Megaplay Nintendo NES was Nintendo Vs system Xbox 1 was a Chihiro board Every Single Playstation system has had an identical system for the arcade made by Namco, and sometimes with more RAM. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-coin-operated-arcade-games-so-good-so-early/646491/46 "2013-01-15T08:48:16Z")
> [@Superhal](#): > > I talked to an arcade owner as well as an arcade tech. The reason arcade games were so superior to home consoles for so long were the contacts used for the joystick. An 8 point contact cost around $100 and allowed for nearly superhuman feats such as the Zangief Super Piledriver. Arcade controls can have specialty controllers you can’t have at home, but a standard happ joystick for fighting games like the Happ Competition (the standard in the US) only has 4 actual switches and costs less than $20. Arcade ops always use that they can’t afford to fix a broken button/stick as their excuse for why their machines don’t work, which is funnily enough a huge part of the reason there is no such thing as an arcade anymore in the U.S. Japanese arcade ops actually care about their business and professionalism, which is why is one of the reasons an arcade is still a viable business in Japan and not here (along with population density helping quite a bit). > [@](#): > > However, it’s greatest strength also became it’s downfall. If one contact went bad, the game was unplayable. Then a tech had to be called it to replace it (repair was not an option.) The tech worked for like 90/hour, the contact cost like 20, after a while it just wasn’t worth repairing anymore. This is just bad information. If one switch on a happ competition stick went bad (the standard for all fighting games in the U.S. except for Marvel games which used Ultimate P360s), the switch itself costs around $2 and can be swapped out in ten minutes. If the arcade owner is too dumb to do basic maintenance like that, it’s their fault they went out of business. Every single part of a competition stick is serviceable. ANYONE can do it and owning a business with hardware you KNOW has wear and tear that you don’t know how to fix cheaply means you’re a moron, case closed. Also I’ve never in my entire life heard of a tech making 90 dollars an hour, and I’ve known a lot of techs (HIRE ME for $40 I’m a STEAL! 🙂 ) ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-coin-operated-arcade-games-so-good-so-early/646491/47 "2013-01-15T08:55:20Z")
> [@TATG](#): > > Snake Eyes [won](http://www.sirlin.net/blog/2010/7/12/evolution-2010-the-miracle-man-with-zangief.html) HD Remix at Evo with a gamepad using Zangief. Gamepads may be worse, but if they are it seems to me you’ve overstated the discrepancy. HD Remix has intentionally easier inputs specifically so players using pads can have a hope of pulling off the moves. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-coin-operated-arcade-games-so-good-so-early/646491/48 "2013-01-15T09:21:11Z")
> [@Superhal](#): > > Therefore, you are questioning my memory, not the facts? > > Go ahead and cite ANY SOURCE, BETTER THAN MINE which contradicts my facts. Your memory might be right, your ‘facts’ are not facts. Standard arcade joysticks (not specialty sticks with motors etc) have never, EVER costed $100 each. [From 1994:](https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!searchin/rec.games.video.arcade/joystick$20prices/rec.games.video.arcade/lk9y2nm7Sqc/B4U4H8_Yx1sJ) > [@](#): > > Go mail order. Happ Controls is based in Illinois, but has a San Jose > sales office. Good quality controls for decent prices. Joysticks run > about $11, buttons about $1.50 each. I’ve replaced the joysticks and > buttons on my two arcade machines with Happ equipment and built an arcade > style control panel for my Amiga as well. Couldn’t be happier. > > Call 'em for a catalog. Minimum order is something like $25, pretty > danged reasonable. > > ``` > Happ Controls, Inc. Happ Controls, Inc. > West Coast Sales Office > 106 Garlish Dr. 50 Airport Parkway > Elk Grove, IL 60007 San Jose, CA 95110 > phone: 708-593-6130 phone: 408-437-7736 > fax: 708-593-6137 fax: 408-437-4936 > > ``` > > – ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-coin-operated-arcade-games-so-good-so-early/646491/49 "2013-01-15T09:56:30Z")
> [@](#): > > Arcade ops always use that they can’t afford to fix a broken button/stick as their excuse for why their machines don’t work, which is funnily enough a huge part of the reason there is no such thing as an arcade anymore in the U.S. Japanese arcade ops actually care about their business and professionalism, which is why is one of the reasons an arcade is still a viable business in Japan and not here (along with population density helping quite a bit). I think that the reason that arcades are dead or dying in the US is because I can buy an arcade game for a console for somewhere between $5 and $20. When I was going to arcades, I used to spend that much money on a single outing, and I didn’t own a physical copy of the game! I have several anthologies of arcade games, and they cost me between $20 and $50. Some only have four or five games on them, some have a couple of dozen games. Bottom line is, I quit going to arcades for more than one reason. First, for a while there, it seemed like all the arcades only had boxing or other sports games. I MIGHT drop a token or two in a golf or bowling game, if it looked interesting, but most sports sims leave me cold. I have no moral objection to fighting, it’s just that I don’t care for sports. Second, I don’t particularly like having to deal with a bunch of kids crowded around me while I play. In some arcades, this was a real issue. Third, money issue, once I’ve purchased a console I can use it to play arcade games AND games where I can save my progress. Some of my favorite games require me to spend multiple hours playing them, which I couldn’t do on an arcade game unless I had some sort of memory card or something that I’d take with me. Home consoles allow me far more options…and I can play at 3 AM, if I want to. The days of 24 hour arcades are over. I can pause my game and get a drink or go to the bathroom at home. Can’t do that in an arcade. I can save my game and fix a meal, or even grab a nap. Again, can’t do that in an arcade. I enjoyed arcades. If I knew of a good one, I might even go once in a while, mostly to try out new games to buy. But the reason that arcades have died out is because people have other options now. Back then, the options were go to an arcade, or play a very primitive home console game. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-coin-operated-arcade-games-so-good-so-early/646491/50 "2013-01-15T10:22:04Z")
For sure, this is why I have the best of both worlds and own an arcade machine with a modded bios so I can pause, use cheats etc so I can get up and go get a drink without losing my game. 🆒 edit: Definitely not a MAME cab as I’m a purist, btw ---
**Author:** ![Airk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de053/32.png) [@Airk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airk)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-coin-operated-arcade-games-so-good-so-early/646491/51 "2013-01-15T22:17:00Z")
Well, okay then. And I was trying to find someone who was prepared to give me genuine numbers and apparently they’ve materialized in my absence. A VERY good point about the RGB vs composite connections on the monitors too. Holy cow. I’m not entirely convinced that the death of arcades is strictly a matter of cost/being outcompeted by home consoles either. People can make damn fine coffee at home, but you don’t see Starbucks going out of business. Arcades in the US were mostly run badly - including but not limited to the sorts of poor maintenance mentioned in this thread. I once read an assertion that a lot of arcades were run by people who were leaving the vending machine industry, of all things, and I have no idea how true that is, but it might explain some of the lack of customer service. At this point though, I don’t think it’s really possible for arcades in the US to pick themselves up until something changes. There are still around, but I gather that they are struggling. Apparently even in Japan they’re not doing as well as they used to. There needs to be some way to both reduce the cost and to accentuate the social aspect of the place without making it into the smokey, loud, unpleasant sort of place that a lot of folks remember not enjoying. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-coin-operated-arcade-games-so-good-so-early/646491/52 "2013-01-15T22:24:21Z")
Well it is already too late. The coin-op games industry used to be the innovators in gaming, they would set the trend and you would see what was coming into home consoles maybe 5 years from then. Nowadays, the only reason to go to arcades is for the light gun games or sit down driving games, basically deluxe experiences with specialized controls that are difficult to get at home, because the modern arcade hardware is literally a linux or windows PC in a box connected to the same HD flatscreen monitor you probably have at home. And anyways, it’s already pretty pointless. When I got another arcade cab I thought my roommates’ two kids aged 10 and 7 would be bothering me to play on it…they have wii, xbox and PS3, they couldn’t care less about the arcade machines. Unless you grew up in an arcade, the arcade experience holds no appeal for you, I am excited about arcades because I basically grew up in them every weekend and there’s nostalgia and a competitive fighting game aspect that is missing on console. Arcades are dead as a retail business, they will be around for home users for a long time to come though. ---
**Author:** ![Airk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de053/32.png) [@Airk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airk)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-coin-operated-arcade-games-so-good-so-early/646491/53 "2013-01-16T01:43:21Z")
> [@rogerbox](#): > > Arcades are dead as a retail business,\*\* they will be around for home users for a long time to come though.\*\* Not sure what you mean by this, exactly. Care to elaborate? ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-coin-operated-arcade-games-so-good-so-early/646491/54 "2013-01-16T02:07:18Z")
I wrote ports of video games in the early 80’s for the trash 80 color computer and the coin-op machines definitely had more processing and graphics power than what was available at home. They were at minimum a few years ahead in the early 80’s and over time and due to economies of scale the gap shrunk. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-coin-operated-arcade-games-so-good-so-early/646491/55 "2013-01-16T03:56:02Z")
> [@Airk](#): > > Not sure what you mean by this, exactly. Care to elaborate? They still make pinball machines that are specifically for home use and not retail (no coin slot etc), and collectors and hobbyists will be keeping classics alive for many decades to come, I can’t imagine there will be more than a handful of arcades in the US when we hit the 2020’s and beyond. I’m currently future-proofing all of my equipment with new capacitors etc while parts are still available, I have a backup flyback transformer for my Toei monitor because it’s a fairly obscure Japanese monitor and who knows 5-10 years down the road when my current flyback fails if there will be any more to buy. There is no flyback transformer replacement for Nanao MS-9 29 monitor chassis’ right now, if your flyback dies you have to buy a whole new chassis for many hundreds of dollars. Hopefully someone manufactures a compatible flyback someday for the best CRT monitor of all time…:mad: ---
**Author:** ![Airk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de053/32.png) [@Airk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airk)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-coin-operated-arcade-games-so-good-so-early/646491/56 "2013-01-16T18:02:47Z")
> [@rogerbox](#): > > They still make pinball machines that are specifically for home use and not retail (no coin slot etc), and collectors and hobbyists will be keeping classics alive for many decades to come, I can’t imagine there will be more than a handful of arcades in the US when we hit the 2020’s and beyond. I’m currently future-proofing all of my equipment with new capacitors etc while parts are still available, I have a backup flyback transformer for my Toei monitor because it’s a fairly obscure Japanese monitor and who knows 5-10 years down the road when my current flyback fails if there will be any more to buy. There is no flyback transformer replacement for Nanao MS-9 29 monitor chassis’ right now, if your flyback dies you have to buy a whole new chassis for many hundreds of dollars. Hopefully someone manufactures a compatible flyback someday for the best CRT monitor of all time…:mad: Ah, I see. You were talking about arcade CABINETS. I was sitting there thinking “I don’t know too many home arcades”. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-coin-operated-arcade-games-so-good-so-early/646491/57 "2013-01-17T20:34:28Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > By the time 1995 rolled around, it’s not worth anybody’s money to code Ms Pac-Man (1982) for the PlayStation or even the SNES or Genesis. Of course they weren’t going to bring Ms Pac-Man to the Genesis in 1995, since [they’d already done so in 1991](http://www.mobygames.com/game/genesis/ms-pac-man), with improved graphics and many additional modes. The SNES port didn’t come until [1996](http://www.mobygames.com/game/snes/ms-pac-man), though. ---
**Author:** ![Airk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de053/32.png) [@Airk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airk)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-coin-operated-arcade-games-so-good-so-early/646491/58 "2013-01-17T21:54:01Z")
And I just stumbled into this, for an interesting history on the topic: > **[For Amusement Only: the life and death of the American arcade](https://www.theverge.com/2013/1/16/3740422/the-life-and-death-of-the-american-arcade-for-amusement-only)** > > If you’ve never been inside a "real" arcade, it could be hard to distinguish one from say, oh, a Dave & Buster’s. Authenticity is a hard nut to crack, but there are a few hallmarks of the video... ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-coin-operated-arcade-games-so-good-so-early/646491/59 "2013-01-20T14:25:20Z")
> [@rogerbox](#): > > There’s a ton of arcade boards which are identical or nearly identical to home console hardware. > > Dreamcast home console is identical to Naomi and roughly the same as Atomiswave. > > Sega Genesis was basically Megaplay > > Nintendo NES was Nintendo Vs system > > Xbox 1 was a Chihiro board > > Every Single Playstation system has had an identical system for the arcade made by Namco, and sometimes with more RAM. And the Nintendo Vs system is what I was thinking of when I said that there were arcades with the same hardware as the home consoles. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-coin-operated-arcade-games-so-good-so-early/646491.md?page=2)