# Why were Italians discriminated against so harshly in the early twentieth century? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 22, 2021, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-italians-discriminated-against-so-harshly-in-the-early-twentieth-century/938461 "2021-03-22T21:32:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2021, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-italians-discriminated-against-so-harshly-in-the-early-twentieth-century/938461/81 "2021-07-20T00:25:28Z")
People often resent their superiors. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2021, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-italians-discriminated-against-so-harshly-in-the-early-twentieth-century/938461/82 "2021-07-20T00:41:46Z")
The other great destination for Italians in the 19th/20th centuries was Argentina. I’m interested how their experience there compared to the US. Lacking the same anti-Catholicism, did they still face discrimination? (Argentina lead the hemisphere in the extent it wiped out its native population, so somebody had to be at the bottom of society). Did the Argentine-Italians bring the mafia and prey upon other Italian immigrants there too? ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2021, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-italians-discriminated-against-so-harshly-in-the-early-twentieth-century/938461/83 "2021-07-20T08:29:30Z")
When I first lived in London back in the 60s, there was a poor area I used to go to where most of the businesses were Jewish. A decade later, they had moved on and the shops were largely occupied by Ugandan Asians who had fled Idi Amin’s reign of terror. They moved on and were replaced by Bangladeshi’s and although I haven’t been there for years, I believe that you would now find many of the poorer East European countries represented there. AFAIK, Italians were never discriminated against here (at least no more than the usual racial discrimination). They took over the mobile ice cream trade after WW2. Many Italian immigrants were actually ex POWs who decided not to return home to a country even more devastated by war than the UK. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2021, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-italians-discriminated-against-so-harshly-in-the-early-twentieth-century/938461/84 "2021-07-20T09:40:40Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > Many Italian immigrants were actually ex POWs who decided not to return home to a country even more devastated by war than the UK. Nearly 100,000 Italian POWs were sent to South Africa during WW2. They were kept in a huge camp under pretty good conditions, and got on well with South Africans. Thousands were let out to work on various projects like road-building and construction, and even to work on farms. After the war, many emigrated to South Africa and did well. I don’t think there was any particular discrimination against them – probably because they were white, and there was enough discrimination against non-whites to go round! Much the same with the Portuguese, Greek, and Jewish communities here. They were not particularly discriminated against. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2021, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-italians-discriminated-against-so-harshly-in-the-early-twentieth-century/938461/85 "2021-07-20T10:10:25Z")
The ‘Little Italy’ of London is Clerkenwell. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2021, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-italians-discriminated-against-so-harshly-in-the-early-twentieth-century/938461/86 "2021-07-20T11:09:45Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > They took over the mobile ice cream trade after WW2. Many Italian immigrants were actually ex POWs who decided not to return home to a country even more devastated by war than the UK. The ice cream trade in the UK was run by Italians long before WW2. In the case of [Donoghue v Stevenson - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donoghue_v_Stevenson), 1032, probably the most famous torts case in English common law, the cafe where Donoghue was served an ice-cream float was operated by “Francis Minghella”/Minchella: born in the UK, Italian parents. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2021, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-italians-discriminated-against-so-harshly-in-the-early-twentieth-century/938461/87 "2021-07-20T13:24:41Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > The other great destination for Italians in the 19th/20th centuries was Argentina. I’m interested how their experience there compared to the US. Lacking the same anti-Catholicism, did they still face discrimination? One of my friends in grad school was an Argentine of Italian descent. She said that in Argentina, recent Italian ancestry was just taken for granted as normal. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2021, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-italians-discriminated-against-so-harshly-in-the-early-twentieth-century/938461/88 "2021-07-20T13:48:47Z")
The largest ethnic group in Argentina is Italians. One way to remember this is by thinking of the most famous Argentinian at the moment. Pope Francis is an Argentinian of Italian descent. According to this Wikipedia entry, people of Italian ancestry are the majority in both Argentina and Uruguay: > **[Ethnic groups of Argentina](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_of_Argentina)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > Argentina has a racially and ethnically diverse population. The territory of what today is Argentina was first inhabited by numerous indigenous peoples. The first white settlers came during the period of Spanish colonization, beginning in the 16th century. The Spaniards imported African slaves, who would go on to become the first Afro-Argentines. Following independence from Spain in the 19th century and well into the 20th century, numerous migrati... ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2021, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-italians-discriminated-against-so-harshly-in-the-early-twentieth-century/938461/89 "2021-07-20T14:48:43Z")
> [@CorpusNeptune](#): > > Was it because of their culture, their language, or something else entirely? I’m a bit late clocking it, but the premise is naive that there was an objective reason for discrimination. Italians were discriminated against for much the same reason that Mexicans and Central Americans are discriminated against today. Or Muslims. Or anyone who is not Western European. They are outsiders trying to come here for a better life. In 100 years there will probably be some other group that bigots decide to hate just because they are different. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2021, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-italians-discriminated-against-so-harshly-in-the-early-twentieth-century/938461/90 "2021-07-20T14:57:03Z")
Great people discuss ideas. Lesser people feel the need to look down on other groups to bolster their fragile self esteem. The groups in question and degree of discrimination change with time and place. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2021, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-italians-discriminated-against-so-harshly-in-the-early-twentieth-century/938461/91 "2021-07-20T15:13:01Z")
I think the simplest answer is that they were the biggest immigrant group at the turn of the 20th century. My grandparents were first generation American. Their families came in through Ellis Island and settled in Brooklyn and endured lots of discrimination and hatred. Today, if I get any reaction at all for being Italian, it’s that it is a cool thing. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2021, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-italians-discriminated-against-so-harshly-in-the-early-twentieth-century/938461/92 "2021-07-20T15:15:44Z")
My home for a year… As an aside I moved to the United Kingdom just as the EU enlargement began to bring the huge swarths of Eastern Europeans. It was mind boggling to watch just how prejudiced White British were against them and how quickly the same people who were bigots against British Asians decided that they frankly preferred them to the newcomers. Less so (to me at least) how British Asians were down right racist towards the Poles, Romanians etc. 🙄 Prejudice never makes any sense. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2021, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-italians-discriminated-against-so-harshly-in-the-early-twentieth-century/938461/93 "2021-07-20T22:30:45Z")
> [@Bonum\_Legatum](#): > > Maybe a “chicken and egg” argument, but also remember that Italians were associated with vicious organized crime. There was a saying that the Irish settled arguments with their fists, the Italians - with knives. A turn-of-the-century reason (or excuse) for anti-Italian prejudice in America was the rise of the Black Hand, which was into extortion, kidnappings and bombings. Crimes typically targeted Italian immigrants but sometimes spilled over into involving non-Italians. > **[The Black Hand: The Epic War Between a Brilliant Detect…](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/30971759-the-black-hand?ac=1&from_search=true&qid=IUxKjTRQIT&rank=1)** > > The gripping true story of the origins of the mafia in … I recently finished reading the above book, which is about an Italian-American detective and his “Italian Squad”, an elite NYPD group that went undercover against the Black Hand.\* \*apparently the Black Hand was pretty disorganized for “organized crime”. It’s unclear how many crimes were perpetrated by imitators, since anyone could send a “Black Hand” extortion letter. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2021, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-italians-discriminated-against-so-harshly-in-the-early-twentieth-century/938461/94 "2021-07-21T17:30:03Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > e largest ethnic group in Argentina is Italians. One way to remember this is by thinking of the most famous Argentinian at the moment. Pope Francis… You misspelled “Lionel Messi.” 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2021, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-italians-discriminated-against-so-harshly-in-the-early-twentieth-century/938461/95 "2021-07-21T17:58:10Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > Check out how Joe DiMaggio is described in “Life” Magazine in 1939 > > “Although he learned Italian first, Joe, now 24, speaks English without an accent, and is otherwise well adapted to most U.S. mores. Instead of olive oil or smelly bear grease he keeps his hair slick with water. He never reeks of garlic and prefers chicken chow mein to spaghetti.” It’s amazing that he was able to adapt to US mores since he immigrated all the way from California. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2021, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-italians-discriminated-against-so-harshly-in-the-early-twentieth-century/938461/96 "2021-07-21T19:44:38Z")
I just had a thought. How they spoke about DiMaggio illustrates why Ted Williams hid his Mexican heritage. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2021, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-italians-discriminated-against-so-harshly-in-the-early-twentieth-century/938461/97 "2021-07-21T21:21:57Z")
What I find interesting about the DiMaggio quote is that they consider chow mein to be an acceptably American dish. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2021, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-italians-discriminated-against-so-harshly-in-the-early-twentieth-century/938461/98 "2021-07-21T22:38:33Z")
It didn’t help that Williams was embarrassed by his Mexican-American evangelist mother, who used to drag him and his brother to Salvation Army revival meetings in Tijuana when they were children. I also recall a story about her proselytizing in the stands at one or more of his games. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2021, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-italians-discriminated-against-so-harshly-in-the-early-twentieth-century/938461/99 "2021-07-21T22:42:06Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > What I find interesting about the DiMaggio quote is that they consider chow mein to be an acceptably American dish. I agree. The whole quote is so hilarious and appalling but that liking chow mein (which is, after all, Americanized Chinese food) is a sign of a true American while liking spaghetti is not, is just weird. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2021, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-italians-discriminated-against-so-harshly-in-the-early-twentieth-century/938461/100 "2021-07-21T22:47:44Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > It’s amazing that he was able to adapt to US mores since he immigrated all the way from California. It’s weird that people’s bigoted assumptions were irrational 🙂 > [@Chronos](#): > > What I find interesting about the DiMaggio quote is that they consider chow mein to be an acceptably American dish. Yeah, that is the cherry on the top of the nonsense sundae. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-italians-discriminated-against-so-harshly-in-the-early-twentieth-century/938461.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-italians-discriminated-against-so-harshly-in-the-early-twentieth-century/938461.md?page=6)