# Why were the Empires ships so shit? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 24, 2003, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-empires-ships-so-shit/190607 "2003-07-24T13:03:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2003, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-empires-ships-so-shit/190607/21 "2003-07-24T23:57:19Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Bakhesh_ > Finally, we have the super stardestroyer Executor. This is the biggest ship in the fleet with the exception of deathstars. It must have a complement of thousands of tie fighters, yet it was destroyed by a couple of rebel fighters. The shield generator was destroyed by a single fighter. It seems to be the only bit of the ship that WASN’T protected by a shield. I mean, why not just paint a big target on it? This nitpick is starting to bug me a little bit. When the big ball on the top of the Star Destroyer is blown up, _the shields were already down._ You can tell, because otherwise the big globe wouldn’t have blown up! The shields would have protected it. At that point in the battle, the SDs had been in knife-fighting range of the Rebel capital ships for some time, and everyone involved had already taken a serious pounding. The Calamari Cruisers took out the SD’s shields, which left it vulnerable to the guns and missiles of the fighters, who finished it off. **Fern Forest** : I think _you’re_ confused: when the Executor takes its nosedive, I’m pretty sure you can clearly see a plume of fire from the bridge where the A-Wing hit it. Now, I maintain that the A-Wing didn’t deal the Executor a fatal blow under normal circumstances, but the ships Captain had maneuvered too close to the Death Star, and when the bridge was destroyed, whoever was left in command couldn’t re-establish control before the Executor got caught in the Death Star’s gravity well. (I’m not really interested in defending most of Return of the Jedi: just the battle around Endor, because that was the only cool part of the movie.) ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-empires-ships-so-shit/190607/22 "2003-07-25T00:16:06Z")
> [@](#): > > Of course, it’s only a matter of time before we get the standard-issue post by someone telling us how the Star Destroyer could fire 78 jillion gooberwatts of energy through its turbolasers and the Empire had five million of them and the shields had 650 grabasstiks of shielding power, all basd on references to the “canon” pulp novels. 200 gigaton heavy turbolasers, 25,000 of them (at least), and at least 16 teratons (roughly equivalent) of shielding, according to the Episode 2 _Incredible Cross-Sections_, which is part of the ICS series recently declared canon by Lucasfilms, as announced on page 38 of _Star Wars Insider_. > [@](#): > > “The first two Incredible Cross-Sections books were conceived to explore bold new territory in the Star Wars universe, taking a rare look inside more vehicles and vessels than we had ever seen before, and doing in in unprecidented detail. These books would represent the most thorough research ever done on these vehicles and would receive Lucasfilm’s formal imprimatur as canon. These volumes would henceforth be sent out to licensees as reference guides and would become useful manuals for Industrial Light & Magic, where some of the artwork influenced details in Episodes I and II.” Eat it. 😃 Anyway, to clear up some misconceptions… > [@](#): > > On a related question, why do highly-trained stormtroopers carrying laser weapons miss all the time? Because if you’re trying to let someone escape, it’s kind of a bad idea to kill them, isn’t it? Remember, Tarkin deliberately allowed Han, Luke, & Company escape so that the homing beacon aboard the Falcon would allow the Empire to find the Rebel base. > [@](#): > > I wanna know why Imperial Stormtroopers even bother with Body Armor. If they wanted to fully protect against blasters, they’d need insanely heavy armoring. Remember ANH? Remember the scene in Docking Bay 94? Some of Han’s blaster shots hit the wall and exploded like a hand grenade. Stormtroopers wear armor for two reasons: One, to offer slight protection against low-powered or sharp-angle shots… and two, to force the enemy to pump up the juice on their guns, which would make the enemy run out of ammo in a prolonged firefight. Asking why stormies bother with armor is like asking why cops bother with bullet-proof vests if rifle bullets could still penetrate. > [@](#): > > Stormtrooper: “Look! A mob of short natives wielding primitive weapons! They’re no match for our advanced armor and weapons – run away!” Incorrect. Try: “Look! A mob of short natives wielding primitive weapons that outnumber us a hundred to one and have the home-field advantage! Return to the bunker that _we’re trying to protect_!” The Rebel’s plan was to try to lure the Imperial forces out into the forest. Divide and conquer, and all that. > [@](#): > > Not exactly- at least, according to the X-Wing books. The X-wing books follow the exploits of THE best X-wing squadron that the Rebellion/New Republic has to offer. Hardly a normal case. ---
**Author:** ![Fern\_Forest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/71c47a/32.png) [@Fern\_Forest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fern_Forest)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-empires-ships-so-shit/190607/23 "2003-07-25T00:29:26Z")
You’re right Miller. I had the A-Wing incident too early in my mind. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-empires-ships-so-shit/190607/24 "2003-07-25T00:44:11Z")
Fern, I think you were thinking of a different part of the battle, where you see _X-wings_ blowing up one of those domes on an ISD. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-empires-ships-so-shit/190607/25 "2003-07-25T00:45:33Z")
Criticizing the battle plans in the Star Wars universe is pretty pointles – they’re supposed to be a kid’s-eye view of war. That’s howcum all the pricipal characters get to be Generals and Admirals – the staff is top-heavy. But t a kd they can all be generals. I just think that, even to a kid, the pointlessness of the Stortrooper armor (not to mention the non-existent defenses of the ships) seems just too obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-empires-ships-so-shit/190607/26 "2003-07-25T00:59:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SPOOFE \* > **Stormtroopers wear armor for two reasons. . .** Three reasons. It’s also so that if they hit their head on low hanging death star beams, they won’t be hurt. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-empires-ships-so-shit/190607/27 "2003-07-25T02:44:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tarrsk \* > \*\*Not exactly- at least, according to the X-Wing books. The X-Wing’s shields give it a huge advantage in one-on-one dogfights, enough that (assuming pilots of equal skill), the X-Wing could just soak up damage until it manages to get a snap shot at the TIE. The X-Wing may be slower than the TIE fighter, but the TIE fighter evaporates after a single good hit. > \*\* I was going acording to the game, not the books(which I haven’t read). In the movies, Ties are destroyed by a single hit, while in the game, Ties can take 3. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-empires-ships-so-shit/190607/28 "2003-07-25T02:54:23Z")
> [@](#): > > I just think that, even to a kid, the pointlessness of the Stortrooper armor (not to mention the non-existent defenses of the ships) seems just too obvious. 'Cept it ISN’T obvious. You need a gun with the destructive power of a hand grenade to punch through the armor. You call THAT flimsy? Whattaya want, six feet of depleted uranium? > [@](#): > > Three reasons. It’s also so that if they hit their head on low hanging death star beams, they won’t be hurt. Well, let’s also not forget the built-in fellatio machines in the cups, but I wasn’t gonna go there… ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-empires-ships-so-shit/190607/29 "2003-07-25T03:22:44Z")
> [@](#): > > Well, let’s also not forget the built-in fellatio machines in the cups, but I wasn’t gonna go there… Whoah! I guess now we know the true power of the dark side, eh? ---
**Author:** ![theendisnear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a4c791/32.png) [@theendisnear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/theendisnear)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-empires-ships-so-shit/190607/30 "2003-07-25T03:35:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SPOOFE \* > \*\*Well, let’s also not forget the built-in fellatio machines in the cups, but I wasn’t gonna go there… \*\* Bad aim mystery solved, move along folks! ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-empires-ships-so-shit/190607/31 "2003-07-25T06:04:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SPOOFE \* > **You need a gun with the destructive power of a hand grenade to punch through the [stormtrooper] armor.** Unless you’re an ewok, in which case all you need is a well-thrown rock. ---
**Author:** ![Duderdude2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cdc98d/32.png) [@Duderdude2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duderdude2)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-empires-ships-so-shit/190607/32 "2003-07-25T06:21:40Z")
I can’t believe people are actually trying to defend this movie. Guys, face it, it’s a fun, stupid popcorn movie. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-empires-ships-so-shit/190607/33 "2003-07-25T06:40:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Duderdude2 \* > \*\*I can’t believe people are actually trying to defend this movie. Guys, face it, it’s a fun, stupid popcorn movie. \*\* Thank you for, once again, adding nothing to the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Duderdude2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cdc98d/32.png) [@Duderdude2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duderdude2)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-empires-ships-so-shit/190607/34 "2003-07-25T07:02:09Z")
You’re welcome Miller! ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-empires-ships-so-shit/190607/35 "2003-07-25T07:07:06Z")
> [@](#): > > Unless you’re an ewok, in which case all you need is a well-thrown rock. I didn’t see any rocks penetrate stormtrooper armor. > [@](#): > > I can’t believe people are actually trying to defend this movie. Guys, face it, it’s a fun, stupid popcorn movie. That’s the point. I argue that the “fun” and “popcorn” parts are right, but not the “stupid”. For that, you have to go back to the prequels. ---
**Author:** ![Grousser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9d8465/32.png) [@Grousser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grousser)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-empires-ships-so-shit/190607/36 "2003-07-25T07:14:34Z")
"There are entities like **Duderdude2** or **gatopescado** in every message board of the internet. "This battle goes on wherever you have discussion forums; it’s a verity, a rule, of our kind of existence. They are natural predators, you can fight them but you will never get totally rid of them. “They have to be fought on our side of the glass”. (Oh, God, where did I get that from??) ---
**Author:** ![Teelo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8491ac/32.png) [@Teelo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teelo)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-empires-ships-so-shit/190607/37 "2003-07-25T07:18:24Z")
Actually! I don’t think the _Executor_ was the biggest Star Destroyer! I used to be a big Star Wars nut, and I bought a book which showed all the different ships in the movies, 4,5 and 6 and the books at the time. There was a ship called…I think it was the _Eclipse_ it was 16 km long, double the Executor and was pure black. Apparently it could just ram capitol ships to destroy them. But of course, Luke blew it up from the inside…or something. On Stormtrooper helmets: When Han and Luke had trouble seeing through them in ANH, was it because they were not in the “on” position? I recall something my brother **wearia** told me about how the helmet worked together with the blaster to help aiming and allow the wearer a nice 360 degree view while wearing them. Im totally unsure about that last paragragh though! In the game x-wing vs tie fighter, the x-wings and normal tie fighters had the same speed. Maybe the makers didnt research the ships well enough. I just included that because someone said they were much faster. ---
**Author:** ![Duderdude2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cdc98d/32.png) [@Duderdude2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duderdude2)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-empires-ships-so-shit/190607/38 "2003-07-25T07:22:20Z")
Seriously guys, do you honestly believe George Lucas intended Star Wars to be anything more than a pure, fun action flick? I don’t know why you take offense to this; it’s merely my perception - and many others - of this franchise. Anyways, it’s obviously that the movie was not intended to be taken seriously, as alluded too by the movie’s complete disregard of physics. Take for instance that there would be no sound in space, or that the crafts wouldn’t be able to turn on a dime nearly as efficiently as they do in the movie. Then there’s the AT-ATs which are the most impractical offensive weapons ever fabricated. A mammoth machine, which walks and apparently lacks any safety features are being utilized to “quickly” take out a shield generator. Is the technology in Star Wars so lagging that they’ve never developed nukes, or even simple bombs for that matter ? I could go on for hours about the incompetence of anyone or anything in that movie, but I grow weary of all this Star Wars speak. ---
**Author:** ![Teelo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8491ac/32.png) [@Teelo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teelo)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-empires-ships-so-shit/190607/39 "2003-07-25T07:27:50Z")
WE ARE HAVING FUN, POOPY PANTS. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Duderdude2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cdc98d/32.png) [@Duderdude2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duderdude2)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-empires-ships-so-shit/190607/40 "2003-07-25T07:34:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Teelo \* > \*\*WE ARE HAVING FUN, POOPY PANTS. > > 🙂 \*\* At least you were nicer about it than Grousser 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-empires-ships-so-shit/190607.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-empires-ships-so-shit/190607.md?page=3)