# Why were the German WWII uniforms, architecture, film etc. so compelling re design aesthetics? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 7, 2010, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-german-wwii-uniforms-architecture-film-etc-so-compelling-re-design-aesthetics/535240 "2010-04-07T03:46:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-german-wwii-uniforms-architecture-film-etc-so-compelling-re-design-aesthetics/535240/21 "2010-04-10T20:04:06Z")
I think **RickJay** nailed it. Hitler wanted his regime to be both impressive to his people and scary to his foes. He was a frustrated painter and architect (in his book _Inside the Third Reich_, Speer reproduces several of his boss’s architectural sketches, incl. for a war memorial that Hitler did over and over again, trying to get the right proportions). He found other, like-minded folks to cater to his aesthetic vision, and to build upon it. The Nazi Party was a monstrous regime. Good riddance to it. But I have to admit, I’ve always thought these looked cool: The King Tiger tank: [http://www.lorwings.net/314/images/kingtiger.jpg](http://www.lorwings.net/314/images/kingtiger.jpg) SS honor guard uniforms: [http://www.waffen-ss.no/div-bilder/LSSAH\_Parade\_1936x.jpg](http://www.waffen-ss.no/div-bilder/LSSAH_Parade_1936x.jpg) The Nuremburg nighttime rallies by day, [http://www.rc.net/sacramento/cfl/images/nuremberg-rally.jpg](http://www.rc.net/sacramento/cfl/images/nuremberg-rally.jpg), and night, [http://www.uncp.edu/home/rwb/nuremberg\_rally\_cathedral.jpg](http://www.uncp.edu/home/rwb/nuremberg_rally_cathedral.jpg) The Bf-109F fighter plane: [http://3k-hobby.deci.jp/air/pic/waha48jt026.jpg](http://3k-hobby.deci.jp/air/pic/waha48jt026.jpg) Likewise, the Fw-190: [http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/6/6b/20090830190002!Focke-Wulf\_Fw\_190\_050602-F-1234P-005.jpg](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/6/6b/20090830190002!Focke-Wulf_Fw_190_050602-F-1234P-005.jpg) The Grand Hall which Speer designed for Berlin: [http://johndenugent.com/jdn/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Speer-Grand-Hall-Berlin1.jpg](http://johndenugent.com/jdn/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Speer-Grand-Hall-Berlin1.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![davekhps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@davekhps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davekhps)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-german-wwii-uniforms-architecture-film-etc-so-compelling-re-design-aesthetics/535240/22 "2010-04-12T19:20:53Z")
> [@drastic\_quench](#): > > I think a lot of them were made, if not designed, by Hugo Boss. So it’s no accident. Wow, you really _do_ learn something new each day. > **[Hugo Boss](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_Boss)** > > Hugo Boss AG (stylized in all caps) is a German designer fashion company headquartered in Metzingen, Baden-Württemberg, Germany. The company sells clothing, accessories, footwear, and leather goods. Hugo Boss is one of the largest German clothing brands, with global sales of about €4.3 billion in 2024. Its stock is a component of the MDAX. The company's fashion brands are Boss and Hugo. Hugo Boss also sells licensed brand products for children's fashion, eyewear, watches, home textiles, The co... ---
**Author:** ![Quintas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/48db29/32.png) [@Quintas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quintas)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-german-wwii-uniforms-architecture-film-etc-so-compelling-re-design-aesthetics/535240/23 "2010-04-13T00:37:23Z")
Also, nearly everything you ever see on documentaries of the time period are scenes from Triumph of the Will. This one propaganda film has become people’s mental image of Nazi Germany. It was filmed in 1934. Yet regardless of the actual event being discussed, whether it’s 1934 or 1944 they always use that same footage of Hitler that night at the zeppelin field with the searchlights and/or the brownshirts parading through numerberg with torchlights. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-german-wwii-uniforms-architecture-film-etc-so-compelling-re-design-aesthetics/535240/24 "2010-04-13T04:16:18Z")
> [@Quintas](#): > > Also, nearly everything you ever see on documentaries of the time period are scenes from Triumph of the Will. This one propaganda film has become people’s mental image of Nazi Germany. It was filmed in 1934. Yet regardless of the actual event being discussed, whether it’s 1934 or 1944 they always use that same footage of Hitler that night at the zeppelin field with the searchlights and/or the brownshirts parading through numerberg with torchlights. Psst. See post #18. ---
**Author:** ![Quintas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/48db29/32.png) [@Quintas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quintas)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-german-wwii-uniforms-architecture-film-etc-so-compelling-re-design-aesthetics/535240/25 "2010-04-13T05:59:54Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Psst. See post #18. I saw it. I just wasn’t sure if people realised that nearly _every_ clip ever used in Nazi documentaries seems to be from _Triumph of the Will_. I didn’t until I watched it. I’ve never noticed if Olympia is used that much, wasn’t it basically a documentary about the Berlin Olympic games? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-german-wwii-uniforms-architecture-film-etc-so-compelling-re-design-aesthetics/535240/26 "2010-04-13T06:09:32Z")
It was the source of the Jesse Owens sprint footage, innumerable shots of Hitler up in the stands watching the events, and much grand parading around the stadium with countries dipping their flags to Hitler. Not as well known as the _Triumph…_ imagery though. ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-german-wwii-uniforms-architecture-film-etc-so-compelling-re-design-aesthetics/535240/27 "2010-04-13T06:42:25Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Making the military as sleek and as awesome-looking as possible was a deliberate step towards making the process attractive to common Germans. That sort of thing wasn’t especially important to, say, the Americans, who weren’t trying to permanently militarize the people. But it has been important to other, later regimes. Why have they failed? Other totalitarian aesthetics either seem like Nazi knock-offs or boring. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-german-wwii-uniforms-architecture-film-etc-so-compelling-re-design-aesthetics/535240/28 "2010-04-13T06:50:09Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > But there’s certainly something to the idea that their uniforms and political stuff were very compelling. The thing is, that was very much the point. This. They were good at political showmanship if nothing else. I recalled a thread posted a while back that linked to a bunch of interesting color pictures from Nazi Germany; a lot of their imagery was positively hypnotic in color. Unfortunately the link to the album was dead when I found the [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=506940). Some of the other links in the thread are still live though. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-german-wwii-uniforms-architecture-film-etc-so-compelling-re-design-aesthetics/535240/29 "2010-04-13T08:11:38Z")
> [@cckerberos](#): > > But it has been important to other, later regimes. Why have they failed? Other totalitarian aesthetics either seem like Nazi knock-offs or boring. The Communists don’t seem to do too badly…plus, they’ve got a pretty consistent color/design scheme they get to go with. They have a rather unfortunate fixation on white wall tires, though, from what I’ve seen in many of their parades. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-german-wwii-uniforms-architecture-film-etc-so-compelling-re-design-aesthetics/535240/30 "2010-04-13T09:14:46Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > This. They were good at political showmanship if nothing else. > > I recalled a thread posted a while back that linked to a bunch of interesting color pictures from Nazi Germany; a lot of their imagery was positively hypnotic in color. Unfortunately the link to the album was dead when I found the [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=506940). Some of the other links in the thread are still live though. I find I can still see the pictures by changing the number of the jpg file at the end: [http://www.fuckthemeat.com/foto2/naziincolor1/52.jpg](http://www.fuckthemeat.com/foto2/naziincolor1/52.jpg) As I said in the previous thread, going through those photos one after another after another gives me quite an oppressive feeling. That stuff was real. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-german-wwii-uniforms-architecture-film-etc-so-compelling-re-design-aesthetics/535240/31 "2010-04-13T09:16:46Z")
The Nazi uniforms looked badass. It has to be said. There is no denying it. ---
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-german-wwii-uniforms-architecture-film-etc-so-compelling-re-design-aesthetics/535240/32 "2010-04-13T11:39:59Z")
> [@](#): > > The Mustang is one of the most boring looking planes ever built. Indeed, The Cadillac of the Skies! [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/1ouJ_WyS9v8/hqdefault.jpg "P-51 Cadillac of the skies!") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ouJ_WyS9v8) ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-german-wwii-uniforms-architecture-film-etc-so-compelling-re-design-aesthetics/535240/33 "2010-04-13T12:50:25Z")
> [@Agent\_Foxtrot](#): > > As a Jew, I must admit that the Nazis had the coolest, snazziest dress uniforms of any modern military. Billy Crystal’s Fernando~ “It’s better to look good than to be good!” ---
**Author:** ![davekhps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@davekhps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davekhps)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-german-wwii-uniforms-architecture-film-etc-so-compelling-re-design-aesthetics/535240/34 "2010-04-13T14:30:06Z")
> [@cckerberos](#): > > But it has been important to other, later regimes. Why have they failed? Other totalitarian aesthetics either seem like Nazi knock-offs or boring. Because they ARE Nazi knock-offs. Like others have said, the Nazis got the concept down, so everyone else looks like an imitator. Because, fundamentally, they _are_ imitators-- trying to create an impressive/imposing look for their armed forces. And in 2010, you can only get so close to the ideal before people start noticing, “Hey, they’re trying to look like Nazis!” And that’s generally seen as a bad thing, for obvious reasons. There are probably a few books and plenty of grad theses out there on this dynamic: military uniforms reflect the culture of the state producing them. Sometimes that reflection is very direct, as in the case of Nazi uniforms. Communist states in the past tend to also follow this pattern, with uniforms that are far more spare, even “peasant like” (look at Soviet uniforms of World War II-- that’s the uniform of the proletariat!). However, Soviet generals and admirals were decked out in more medals than anyone else (a tradition continued from the Tsarist period)-- reflecting that they were very different than the rank-and-file soldiers, almost like Gods astride the Earth. Contrast that with the American G.I. uniform, which was likewise similar in its democratic utilitarianism, but saw less distinction between officer and enlisted uniforms, again reflecting the nature of the society. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2010, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-german-wwii-uniforms-architecture-film-etc-so-compelling-re-design-aesthetics/535240/35 "2010-04-18T04:13:37Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > After all, if Hitler had been a GOOD painter… …then I’d look into selling these Schickelgruvers that I’ve got hanging in the spare bedroom. But I don’t think they’d be worth anything. They’re like bad calendar paintings by Bob Ross’s More-Aryan-Looking kid brother. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2010, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-german-wwii-uniforms-architecture-film-etc-so-compelling-re-design-aesthetics/535240/36 "2010-04-18T13:58:10Z")
Hey, if you looked like [this,](http://www.shoaheducation.com/himmler.jpg) wouldn’t you want to over-compensate with as badass a wardrobe as possible? ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2010, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-german-wwii-uniforms-architecture-film-etc-so-compelling-re-design-aesthetics/535240/37 "2010-04-18T23:38:09Z")
> [@davekhps](#): > > Communist states in the past tend to also follow this pattern, with uniforms that are far more spare, even “peasant like” (look at Soviet uniforms of World War II-- that’s the uniform of the proletariat!). However, Soviet generals and admirals were decked out in more medals than anyone else (a tradition continued from the Tsarist period)-- reflecting that they were very different than the rank-and-file soldiers, almost like Gods astride the Earth. > > Contrast that with the American G.I. uniform, which was likewise similar in its democratic utilitarianism, but saw less distinction between officer and enlisted uniforms, again reflecting the nature of the society. I don’t want to “win the internet” at your expense, but.. fighting ignorance an all that: The Russians switched from fancy European uniforms long before the Revolution. Historically, they’ve had a cultural inferiority complex, and when Alexander II became tsar, he flipped back with a “dammit, we’re proud to be Russian!” attitude, and inaugurated a program of “Russification,” requiring government buildings in ouside territories like Poland and Finland to be built in old-fashioned Russian style; requiring ladies to appear at court functions wearing fur-trimmed costumes that would have look contemporary for Ivan the Terrible; and dressed his soldiers in [gymnastiorka](http://www.2ndguards.com/Images/Equipment%20pics/web%20site%20pictures%201085.jpg) tunics. inspired by traditional peasant’s smocks. The officers still had fancy uniforms, including those shoulder boards they love, but during the Civil War, Reds would torture captured White officers by nailing them into their shoulders. Years later, after Stalin had shot all his best officers, and then had to rebuild an officer corps in a hurry, he brought back all the fancy uniforms. The American’s combat uniform is more of a mater of practicality than egalitarianism. IF you’ve watched From Here to Eternity, you’ll notice Montgomery Cliff marching and performing bayonet drill in the khaki twill shirt and trousers, but washing dishes in the old blue denim fatigue uniform. Just before WWII, the army phased-in olive drab herringbone fatigues, for the same reason they switched from white tents to olive drab ones: to hide from airplanes. When the war arrived, it was soon realized that the fatigue uniform was sturdier than the khaki. The Germans might have looked more dangerous, but they still had heavy, harder-to-maintain leather while the US and the British had cotton webbing. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2010, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-german-wwii-uniforms-architecture-film-etc-so-compelling-re-design-aesthetics/535240/38 "2010-04-19T06:40:04Z")
Personally, I think the Greeks and the Highlanders have the most badd-ass military uniforms. Nothing more scary than a man who isn’t afraid to wear a skirt (with or without pom-poms). Nazis look like they’re over-compensating, and \*anyone \*can pull off black. Actually, my personal aesthetics tend towards the Gothic, but I’ve never really liked the Nazi stylistics - too overbearing, not understated enough to be a \*truly \*compelling design ensemble. I can see why they were often imitated - a lot of bang for your buck in terms of a few simple changes, for any tinpot dictator on a budget. But remember, to actually kick Western butt, you need to wear [this](http://www.ljworld.com/billsnead/gallery/272_vietcong_dien_bien_phu.jpg)uniform. Although I hear black pyjamas work in a pinch. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2010, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-german-wwii-uniforms-architecture-film-etc-so-compelling-re-design-aesthetics/535240/39 "2010-04-19T06:46:46Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Personally, I think the Greeks and the Highlanders have the most badd-ass military uniforms. Nothing more scary than a man who isn’t afraid to wear a skirt (with or without pom-poms). Nazis look like they’re over-compensating, and \*anyone \*can pull off black. > > Actually, my personal aesthetics tend towards the Gothic, but I’ve never really liked the Nazi stylistics - too overbearing, not understated enough to be a \*truly \*compelling design ensemble. I can see why they were often imitated - a lot of bang for your buck in terms of a few simple changes, for any tinpot dictator on a budget. > > But remember, to actually kick Western butt, you need to wear [this](http://www.ljworld.com/billsnead/gallery/272_vietcong_dien_bien_phu.jpg)uniform. Although I hear black pyjamas work in a pinch. Those sandals are _fabulous_! ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2010, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-german-wwii-uniforms-architecture-film-etc-so-compelling-re-design-aesthetics/535240/40 "2010-04-19T06:52:49Z")
I imagine a big aspect of such uniforms is the psychological impact on the wearers themselves. Find yourself dressed in a sharp black uniform with your hat (with death’s head insignia) cocked just so, and you find yourself feeling like a heartless, efficient weapon of the State – _and liking it_. Couldn’t find it online very quickly, but I remember an anectode about Charlie Chaplin when he was filming _The Great Dictator_ – pacifistic Mr. Chaplin, making an explicitly anti-war and anti-Nazi film, found himself getting wound up, strutting around and barking orders at people when he put on the faux-Nazi uniform of Herr Adenoid Hynkel. So if anything could be described as “frighteningly seductive”, I imagine the Nazi uniforms and paraphenalia would be it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-german-wwii-uniforms-architecture-film-etc-so-compelling-re-design-aesthetics/535240.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-german-wwii-uniforms-architecture-film-etc-so-compelling-re-design-aesthetics/535240.md?page=3)