# Why Were The Greek Gods So Nasty? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 8, 2010, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-greek-gods-so-nasty/553065 "2010-09-08T16:32:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2010, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-greek-gods-so-nasty/553065/41 "2010-09-10T02:33:25Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > I don’t know that it’s really true that the Greek gods are giant dicks. Most of the time when people get punished, it’s like **Skald** says, because they “did not pay proper heed to the laws of nature and the limits of human power”. They inflate themselves above their station and try to act like the equals to the gods. You make it all sound so _right._ :dubious: What would you say if I said the Greeks created their gods as a lesson to each other about how they should live, think, and behave? And that includes ideas like natural law and station - they too were shaped by society itself, a way of writing its own rules. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2010, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-greek-gods-so-nasty/553065/42 "2010-09-10T03:12:24Z")
If you said that, I would have to accuse you of impiety and atheism, both of which are displeasing to the gods. 🙂 You could argue that, but you could just as easily argue the other way…that the Greeks know how to live, think, and behave, because they see the example of the gods, and and the hierarchies on earth are a reflection of the gods. That’s why Homer calls Zeus “lord of all the gods and men”, and that when a man knows his proper place, he honors and pleases the gods. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2010, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-greek-gods-so-nasty/553065/43 "2010-09-10T03:34:40Z")
Call me an agnostic. If I do believe in deities, they aren’t the Greek ones. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2010, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-greek-gods-so-nasty/553065/44 "2010-09-12T06:45:56Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > > [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > > > I thought Agamemnon making a human sacrifice out of his daughter for favorable sailing winds might have pissed the gods off more than wearing purple. > > But then, Yahweh punishes David for conducting a census on Yahweh’s orders, so your point would hardly be unique. No, that was David’s own idea. The whole is that it _wasn’t_ on God’s orders. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-greek-gods-so-nasty/553065/45 "2010-09-13T01:42:44Z")
I agree with the simple idea put forth above- we’re often incredible assholes, why not our gods? To paraphrase Xenophanes “If horses made gods, they’d have hooves and eat grass.” ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-greek-gods-so-nasty/553065/46 "2010-09-13T02:15:12Z")
> [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > > > But then, Yahweh punishes David for conducting a census on Yahweh’s orders, so your point would hardly be unique. > > No, that was David’s own idea. The whole is that it _wasn’t_ on God’s orders. 2 Samuel 24:1 > [@King James](#): > > And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah. > [@New International](#): > > Again the anger of the LORD burned against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, “Go and take a census of Israel and Judah.” Of course, there’s also 1 Chronicles 21:1 > [@King James](#): > > And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel. > [@New International](#): > > Satan rose up against Israel and incited David to take a census of Israel. Thus, we discover that God and Satan are the same person! ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-greek-gods-so-nasty/553065/47 "2010-09-13T03:27:24Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > > [@Nava](#): > > > > And excuses for kink, don’t forget excuses for kink. Those legends are damned well pornographic. > > Read the Roman tale _Cupido et Pschye_ some time. Psyche is married to Cupid/Eros, the God of Sexual Love, and yet only meets him in darkness. Her jealous sister want to break up the happy couple, and decide to persuade her he is some kind of monster. Bear in mind she has touched him many times but never seen him clearly. > > They tell her he is a giant snake. And she falls for it completely. “Well, that matches what _I’ve_ been feeling in the dark…” Even in modern mythology we have people that stupid. Take the urban legend of the exploding biscuit can: biscuit can explodes while a woman is driving, and some of it and the end of the can smack the woman in the back of the head. Woman believes she’s been shot, and goes to get help, and then people laugh when they realized what had happened. The noise is scary, but the woman in the story is too dumb to put her hand to the “wound” and look at her hand afterwards to see if there is blood before making an ass of herself. Part of mythology, both then and now, is to show how you shouldn’t behave. Nasty gods and exploding over-processed baked goods are both methods to get the point across. ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Foxtrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Agent\_Foxtrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Foxtrot)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-greek-gods-so-nasty/553065/48 "2010-09-13T15:34:50Z")
> [@Johnny\_Angel](#): > > What baffles me is not that the gods of a given tradition were dickish, but that they were often dickish by the standards even of the societies that worshiped them. I have some idea how Christians rationalize some of their god’s major dick moves, though I find it unpersuasive. But how did the Greeks manage it? I know from the [Euthyphro](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthyphro) that people seriously considered pleasing the gods to have moral value, despite all they knew about the bastards. How is it that religion wasn’t spoken as a matter of “fucked if you do, fucked if you don’t”? The key idea here is that the Greeks regarded their gods as malevolent, not benevolent. A Greek was to worship the gods not out of reverence, but so the gods would be appeased enough to leave him or her the hell alone. The gods were the Mafia, and sacrifices were the tax you pay for “protection”. **Superfluous Parentheses** couldn’t have stated it more perfectly: the gods were superhumans with no moral authority. And the Greeks were right: If you had ultimate power over the forces of the Universe and nobody governing you, how would you act? Absolute power corrupts absolutely, and all that. As for the titans, I believe they represented the more primal universe before civilization. Notice that their areas of control were much more generalized (e.g., the sky, time, earth, etc.) while the gods controlled areas specific to humanity (e.g., love, wisdom, war, etc.). The gods’ conquering of the titans represents humanity conquering nature. At least that’s my take on it. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-greek-gods-so-nasty/553065/49 "2010-09-13T16:26:29Z")
What about the “specialized” gods (like Aries/Mars-god of war). These guys liked having humans killing eachother-it was their reason for being. Did you worship Aries out of reverence or out of fear? Did he give you success in war (i.e. killing a lot of the enemy), or was he liable to kill you (as he enjoyed human wars)? Or the fates…those old hags were scarey (they measured your life and when they snipped your thread, you were toast-were they amenable to prayers (to extend your life)? ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-greek-gods-so-nasty/553065/50 "2010-09-13T16:31:34Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > > [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > > > True. I never understood why Paris called it for Aphrodite, frankly - Athena was certainly more dangerous, and probably the better choice even in a free and fair competition. > > Well, Athena’s never going to have sex with you. > > But the only rational course in this instance is to choose Hera. Athena might be mildly annoyed, but she’s not going to spark a war to destroy your entire nation just 'cause of that. Neither is Aphrodite, and she can be distracted by pretty things anyway. If you pick Hera or Athena, you’ll probably end up with a fair bit of power, either directly (in the case of Hera) or through the abilities Athena gave you. Lots of women are attracted to powerful men. You shouldn’t have much trouble finding a willing one who’s attractive enough for you. You might have a rather easier time dealing with getting her if she’s married, too. The story of David and Bathsheba shows one way that a ruler can deal with that problem. ---
**Author:** ![Wandering\_Hero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ebca7d/32.png) [@Wandering\_Hero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wandering_Hero)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-greek-gods-so-nasty/553065/51 "2010-09-13T16:39:32Z")
As mentioned the Greek Gods are not the kind who are inheriantly more wise or mature, their just asses with super powers. Possibly they are LITERALLY like greater humans, having greater powers, greater egos, and greater temepers. Having such awesome power without anything added mentally, and having no on to answear to gives them liscense to screw around or smite mortals as they please, and I think all this is because of the prevalign beleifs at the time. Those with power can do whatever the hell they like, as long as they don’t piss off someone with a greater amount of power than themselves. Don’t challenge fate/the status quo, it will only end in failure (which ended up being built into so many plays and legends). Naturally more modern societies balked at that kind of thing. Back then, it all made sense. ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Foxtrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Agent\_Foxtrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Foxtrot)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-greek-gods-so-nasty/553065/52 "2010-09-13T16:44:17Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > What about the “specialized” gods (like Aries/Mars-god of war). These guys liked having humans killing eachother-it was their reason for being. Did you worship Aries out of reverence or out of fear? Did he give you success in war (i.e. killing a lot of the enemy), or was he liable to kill you (as he enjoyed human wars)? > Or the fates..those old hags were scarey (they measured your life and when they snipped your thread, you were toast-were they amenable to prayers (to extend your life)? Success in war, yes, but I also imagine Ares was equally worshipped to keep him from interfering with your war. Ares was actually kind of a pussy – he wasn’t nearly the warrior he imagined himself to be and he would often get wounded in battle and tuck tail and run. Your best hopes was to keep someone like that out of your war. (Ironically, Athena, also a deity of war, was a superior warrior to Ares but rarely engaged in battle.) I don’t think anyone worshipped the Fates. There was no purpose – your fate was determined even before you were born… no amount of sacrifice was going to change that. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-greek-gods-so-nasty/553065/53 "2010-09-13T16:59:45Z")
Even the gods were bound by destiny, or fate, or The Fates. They were forces of nature, and there was no point in asking them for favors. The Greek gods were often shown as limited. Plenty of gods made promises that they later regretted, but had to honor. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-greek-gods-so-nasty/553065/54 "2010-09-13T17:47:05Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > > [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > > > True. I never understood why Paris called it for Aphrodite, frankly - Athena was certainly more dangerous, and probably the better choice even in a free and fair competition. > > Well, Athena’s never going to have sex with you. > > But the only rational course in this instance is to choose Hera. Athena might be mildly annoyed, but she’s not going to spark a war to destroy your entire nation just 'cause of that. Neither is Aphrodite, and she can be distracted by pretty things anyway. Well, Aphrodite’s almost certainly not going to have sex with a human either - Athena is _more_ chaste, and known for that, but neither is going to be interested in you. So that’s not a real distinction. I’ll concede that Hera might still be the safest pick, though, in terms of not being horribly killed or enmeshed in cataclysmic war. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-greek-gods-so-nasty/553065/55 "2010-09-13T18:11:34Z")
> [@Mr. Excellent](#): > > Well, Aphrodite’s almost certainly not going to have sex with a human either Anchises would like a word with you. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-greek-gods-so-nasty/553065/56 "2010-09-13T18:36:43Z")
Aphrodite fucked humans all the time, and even bore children by them. She was as big a slut as Zeus. And Athena isn’t “more chaste”. She’s chaste, period, and she doesn’t want anything to do with any male, whether mortal or immortal. The closest sexual myth about Athena is that Hephaestus tried to rape her once, and she fought him off, but not before he came on her leg. Disgusted, she wiped off the semen and threw it to the earth, where it became either a serpent, or a baby. Artemis was a virgin also who had no use for men, but she was always surrounded by nymphs, so, you know. One day Zeus happened to spy a follower of Artemis, and lusted after her. So he changed himself to appear as Artemis, and seduced Callisto, to Callisto’s delight. Only problem, a few months later when Artemis and her followers are bathing in a mountain spring, and Callisto wouldn’t remove her clothing. The nymphs ripped her clothing off, to reveal her shameful pregnancy, and Artemis punished her by changing her into a bear. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-greek-gods-so-nasty/553065/57 "2010-09-13T18:38:11Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > > > Well, Athena’s never going to have sex with you. > > > > But the only rational course in this instance is to choose Hera. Athena might be mildly annoyed, but she’s not going to spark a war to destroy your entire nation just 'cause of that. Neither is Aphrodite, and she can be distracted by pretty things anyway. > > Well, Aphrodite’s almost certainly not going to have sex with a human either - I think you’re confused. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-greek-gods-so-nasty/553065/58 "2010-09-13T18:54:00Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > > [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > > > Well, Aphrodite’s almost certainly not going to have sex with a human either - > > I think you’re confused. Yes, clearly. I stand corrected - ignorance fought. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-greek-gods-so-nasty/553065.md?page=2)