# Why were the Japanese so cruel in World War II? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 22, 2010, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-japanese-so-cruel-in-world-war-ii/565034 "2010-12-22T02:36:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-japanese-so-cruel-in-world-war-ii/565034/21 "2010-12-22T13:07:24Z")
> [@cckerberos](#): > > Respondents were given the choices of “The human rights of non-citizens should be protected as if they were Japanese” and “it’s inevitable (_shikata ga nai_) that non-citizens won’t have the same rights as Japanese.” The use of _shikata ga nai_ in the second answer, IMHO, gives me an impression of “right or wrong, it’s the way it is.” No responsible government that believes in protecting human rights would conduct a poll asking whether human rights afforded should or should not depend on nationality or race. That’s my point. > [@cckerberos](#): > > Nozaki was charged with murder and has been sentenced to death. I didn’t know that. Great. Only at least two Fillipinas had to die before he was sentenced to death. ---
**Author:** ![Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Springtime_for_Spacers)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-japanese-so-cruel-in-world-war-ii/565034/22 "2010-12-22T13:27:10Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Not to downplay the evil of the Germans at all, but the Japanese never get their due - I consider them to be as evil or more than the Germans, but you almost never hear about it, whereas you’ve heard about the holocaust at least 100,000 times in your life. > > In addition to that, the official policy in Japan is dangerously close to the equivelant of holocaust denialism, whereas at least the Germans are thoroughly ashamed and sorry for what they did. My personal take is that my uncle was a Japanese POW, working on the Burma railway, one of a minority of survivors. This big man weighed just 6 stone (86 lbs) on his return to the UK and that was after a long voyage on a hospital ship. He was haunted all his life by what happened to him, and although it was rarely explicitly talked about it has been a cause of family pain. In 1971 Emporer Hirohito came to britain on an official state visit. This led to a great deal of public anger from people who felt that he should not be forgiven for what happened. Veterans turned their backs on his carriage on the London streets and satirical magazine Private Eye featured him on the cover with the vituperative line “There’s a nasty nip in the air”. My Uncle had a breakdown. Shorlty before his death his lifelong back pain was finally diagnosed as being the result of having a vertabra cracked by the butt of a Japanese guard’s gun Tales of Japanese atrocities have been around in British (and Australian) popular culture. There’s the film [Bridge over the River Kwai](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0050212/). I have never been able to watch this. It was a favourite of Christmas schedules for some reason and I presume I inherited my aversion from my parents. We also had the long running popular series [Tenko](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0081944/) about female captives after the fall of Singapore. Americans I should think would be aware of films Merry Christmas Mr Lawrence and the Empire of the Sun. As the old captives die the memory is fading but in many UK familes scratch the surface and the anger still burns . ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-japanese-so-cruel-in-world-war-ii/565034/23 "2010-12-22T13:36:23Z")
According to Wikipedia: [“Soon after the war, the Allied powers indicted 25 [mostly Japanese] individuals as Class-A war criminals, and 5,700 individuals were indicted as Class-B or Class-C war criminals by Allied criminal trials. Of these, 984 were initially condemned to death, 920 were actually executed, 475 received life sentences, 2,944 received some prison terms, 1,018 were acquitted, and 279 were not sentenced or not brought to trial.”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes#Historical_and_geographical_extent) They only tried the top 20 or so Nazis at the Nuremberg Trials IIRC. So these crimes didn’t go unpunished. > [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > My understanding of the Germans is that even though the SS and Gestapo were evil, the German troops themselves weren’t too bad. I have no idea about the Russians. They were not so great if you were Jewish, Polish or Russian. ---
**Author:** ![Baboonanza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f475e1/32.png) [@Baboonanza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baboonanza)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-japanese-so-cruel-in-world-war-ii/565034/24 "2010-12-22T13:39:27Z")
I think it was largely down to the military culture at the time and xenophobia. These soldiers were expected to die, no chance of surrender, and lived in an environment where they endured brutal, repressive treatment themselves. Combined with the attitude that other races were worth less than themselves it is sadly no suprise that people became capable of monstrosities. Brutality breeds brutality. On the American side there was certainly a significant amount of racism, helped by the government and media of course, but at least some of this is also due to the actions of the Japanese themselves. How many atrocities comitted by your enemy do you have to witness before you start thinking they’re animals? And when you know a soldier is probably going to try and blow himself up with a grenade if you take him prisoner, why not just shoot him now and protect yourself? ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-japanese-so-cruel-in-world-war-ii/565034/25 "2010-12-22T14:19:46Z")
> [@Springtime\_for\_Spacers](#): > > As the old captives die the memory is fading but in many UK familes scratch the surface and the anger still burns . The anger still burns in Japan too. Just a few weeks after meeting my father-in-law to be, he sat me down after several drinks and began to tell me how bad life for him and his family was after the US started bombing his city (N.B. no one in his family was injured). I have no idea why he wanted to talk about this macabre subject in what should be a happy occasion of his daughter’s wedding with me. I have no doubt the bombing was scary and terrible for him, but I also have no idea why he took me aside to tell me about that during the first few times we met. Does he blame me, an Australian, for bombing his city? I think he does, in some small place in his heart even though I’m pretty sure no Australian ever bombed his city. My paternal grandfather was permanently disabled in the Japanese bombing of Darwin (in Australia). He died at a fairly early age in his 50s, probably as a result of bombing injuries. It’s something that my father-in-law-to-be had, and has, no knowledge of. I don’t even think he knows that Japan ever bombed Australia. ---
**Author:** ![Camus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ba8739/32.png) [@Camus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Camus)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-japanese-so-cruel-in-world-war-ii/565034/26 "2010-12-22T15:09:47Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > They only tried the top 20 or so Nazis at the Nuremberg Trials IIRC. Just to add on to this, there were actually numerous [subsequent trials](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subsequent_Nuremberg_Trials) at Nuremberg of various other groups of Nazis, as well as trials of concentration and extermination camp officials at the different sites of the camps themselves. [QUOTE=Isamu] Just a few weeks after meeting my father-in-law to be, he sat me down after several drinks and began to tell me how bad life for him and his family was after the US started bombing his city [/QUOTE] In the Edo-Tokyo museum in Tokyo, which traces the history of the settlement of Edo and then Tokyo, there is one big wall panel on what is described as the “rise of militarism” in Japan in the 1920s and 1930s. This is followed by another big wall panel on the Doolittle bombing raid and another two-to-three big wall panels on the firebombing of Tokyo. The Doolittle raid and firebombing panels had specific locations of where the various (largely ineffectual) bombs of the raid struck as well as video/city maps of the devastated aftermath of the firebombing and twisted metal wreckage of some buildings and cars that were damaged during it. Following panels discussed in detail the black markets that arose following the bombings and during the beginning phase of the occupation to keep people from starving. While the nature of the museum itself precludes any real or wide look at what was going in and around Japan at the time or the reasons for WWII, it was striking reading the English translations of the panels’ narratives. Particularly the rise of militarism one and how they compared to the depth and detail provided by the other panels. It was so vague and general about what was going on, why militarism was rising, and even what exactly militarism was in the context of that time. This panel featured some medals and campaign ribbons of Japanese military personnel as well as some propaganda posters of the time. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-japanese-so-cruel-in-world-war-ii/565034/27 "2010-12-22T15:11:41Z")
> [@Baboonanza](#): > > I think it was largely down to the military culture at the time and xenophobia. These soldiers were expected to die, no chance of surrender, and lived in an environment where they endured brutal, repressive treatment themselves. Combined with the attitude that other races were worth less than themselves it is sadly no suprise that people became capable of monstrosities. Brutality breeds brutality. > > On the American side there was certainly a significant amount of racism, helped by the government and media of course, but at least some of this is also due to the actions of the Japanese themselves. How many atrocities comitted by your enemy do you have to witness before you start thinking they’re animals? And when you know a soldier is probably going to try and blow himself up with a grenade if you take him prisoner, why not just shoot him now and protect yourself? I just finished reading _With the Old Breed in Peilelu and Okanawa_, by Eugine Sledge: > **[With the Old Breed: At Peleliu and Okinawa: Sledge, E. B., Fussell, Paul:...](https://www.amazon.com/Old-Breed-At-Peleliu-Okinawa/dp/0195067142)** > > With the Old Breed: At Peleliu and Okinawa \[Sledge, E. B., Fussell, Paul\] on Amazon.com. \*FREE\* shipping on qualifying offers. With the Old Breed: At Peleliu and Okinawa It’s a famous first-person memoir of one marine’s account of the war in the Pacific. [It was partly used for the mini-series _The Pacific_] I highly recommend it as an indication of how American Marines thought about the Japanese soldiers they were fighting, and just how savage and brutal that combat became. I’d be interested in knowing if any similar first-person accounts have survived by Japanese soldiers on the other side … of course, most of those soldiers died, as the battles typically were fought to near-extinction. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-japanese-so-cruel-in-world-war-ii/565034/28 "2010-12-22T15:18:20Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I’ve often wondered about that. Clearly the fighting in the Pacific was a lot more brutal and hellish than in Europe. And it seemed like the Allies also viewed the ‘Japs’ as something less than human. Not to mention we were still pretty sore over Pearl Harbor. > > But I suspect that we let a lot slide after seeing the effects of Fat Man and Little Boy. Yes, there are definitely two sides to that aspect - I’m not excusing anybody of anything, but in my experience with WWII veterans and their stuff, trophies taken from the Germans were knives and guns; trophies taken from the Japanese were more likely to include skulls. WTF, y’all? ETA - **Malthus** snuck in - I’ve read _Fires on the Plain_, which is a novel based on the experiences of the author who survived the ugly fighting in the Phillipines near the end of the war. It’s ghastly. The funny thing is, I read it in a Japanese Literature class where almost every single author killed himself after a miserable awful life, and then there’s this guy who survived real horrors and died peacefully after a long life. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-japanese-so-cruel-in-world-war-ii/565034/29 "2010-12-22T15:20:50Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > the run of averagely educated Japanese are still xenophobic and feel superior to other cultures, with the possible exception of the U.S. and France, and maybe Britain. France? _France?_ 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-japanese-so-cruel-in-world-war-ii/565034/30 "2010-12-22T15:24:13Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > Yes, there are definitely two sides to that aspect - I’m not excusing anybody of anything, but in my experience with WWII veterans and their stuff, trophies taken from the Germans were knives and guns; trophies taken from the Japanese were more likely to include skulls. WTF, y’all? In Sledge’s memoir, he recounts that after one battle, he saw a marine extracting gold teeth from a Japanese soldier with his combat knife - who was wounded in the spine, but not actually _dead_ [Eventially, another marine, unhappy about all the screaming, shot the Japanese soldier in the head]. I find it hard to imagine an American soldier in the war against Germany doing the same, or rather that his fellow-soldiers would tolerate it. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-japanese-so-cruel-in-world-war-ii/565034/31 "2010-12-22T15:26:15Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > ETA - **Malthus** snuck in - I’ve read _Fires on the Plain_, which is a novel based on the experiences of the author who survived the ugly fighting in the Phillipines near the end of the war. It’s ghastly. The funny thing is, I read it in a Japanese Literature class where almost every single author killed himself after a miserable awful life, and then there’s this guy who survived real horrors and died peacefully after a long life. Thanks - I’ll check it out. I’ve never read anything actually written by the Japanese participants in WW2 fighting - only by their enemies and victims. ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-japanese-so-cruel-in-world-war-ii/565034/32 "2010-12-22T15:34:34Z")
While there was rampant racism on both sides, the actions of the Japanese early in the war sealed their fate. After the attack on Pearl Harbor before a declaration of war and the treatment of Western POWs…American/ANZAC soldiers vowed in their mind that they would NEVER surrender to the Japanese again no matter what…and extended that vow to the Japanese as well. Then you add in suicide tactics…and…well…if the Japanese don’t value their own lives…why should we? If they want to die…well, let’s oblige them. WWII in the Pacific was intensely cruel. However, The Japanese set the tone. It didn’t have to be as insane as it was. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-japanese-so-cruel-in-world-war-ii/565034/33 "2010-12-22T15:54:32Z")
> [@BlinkingDuck](#): > > While there was rampant racism on both sides, the actions of the Japanese early in the war sealed their fate. After the attack on Pearl Harbor before a declaration of war and the treatment of Western POWs…American/ANZAC soldiers vowed in their mind that they would NEVER surrender to the Japanese again no matter what…and extended that vow to the Japanese as well. > > Then you add in suicide tactics…and…well…if the Japanese don’t value their own lives…why should we? If they want to die…well, let’s oblige them. > > WWII in the Pacific was intensely cruel. However, The Japanese set the tone. It didn’t have to be as insane as it was. Absolutely. While racism of course existed and was potent, it was I think the experiences of ordinary soldiers in combat which set the tone. The Japanese simply would not surrender or make any of the usual concessions to mitigate the inherent brutality of combat; in return, their enemies hated, feared and loathed them, and treated them as a species of dangerous animal to be exterminated. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-japanese-so-cruel-in-world-war-ii/565034/34 "2010-12-22T16:53:35Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > Q. Why is that man a beggar? (picture of a kid pointing at a decrepit old man with no legs sprawled out on the street) > A. Because he did something bad in a past life, and he deserves it. > Q. Why did little Johnnie die? (Picture of a kid standing over her classmate’s coffin) > A. Because he did something bad in a past life, and he deserves it. > Q. Why are those people poor? > A. Because they did bad things in a past life, and they deserve it. Holy shit. Republicans are a Buddhist cult. ---
**Author:** ![storyguide3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@storyguide3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyguide3)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-japanese-so-cruel-in-world-war-ii/565034/35 "2010-12-22T17:42:17Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Absolutely. While racism of course existed and was potent, it was I think the experiences of ordinary soldiers in combat which set the tone. The Japanese simply would not surrender or make any of the usual concessions to mitigate the inherent brutality of combat; in return, their enemies hated, feared and loathed them, and treated them as a species of dangerous animal to be exterminated. To their credit, however, they did not extend those feelings to Japanese civilians when they were encountered. (At least in reference to US/British/ANZAC forces. I am not well versed enough concerning the Chinese and other enemies of Japan to make any comment on their treatment of civilians one way or the other.) ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-japanese-so-cruel-in-world-war-ii/565034/36 "2010-12-22T17:43:44Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > They only tried the top 20 or so Nazis at the Nuremberg Trials IIRC. There were over 200 defendants in the Nuremburg trials. The first bunch of 22 were the big players, which is probably what you were thinking of, but the trials went on for some time. Hundreds more Nazis were tried at other trials, many of them executed or given long sentences. The Auschwitz trial, for instance, held in Krakow in 1947, tried 41 former Auschwitz officers, only one of whom was acquitted and 21 of whom were promptly hanged. At the Munthausen trial 61 more were tried, all convicted, most hanged. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-japanese-so-cruel-in-world-war-ii/565034/37 "2010-12-22T17:50:07Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Japan has historically been a very xenophobic and racist culture. Once you’ve convinced yourself your enemy are subhumans not even worthy to live, and you’re a dick, you go nuts. Yeah but why are there so many dicks? Why to the rest of them let this happen? Its not like they filtered for the sociopaths like they did at the extermination camps in Germany, it was the common run of the mill soldiers. I read a story about the Rape of Nanking where two Japanese soldiers had a contest to see how many Chinese babies they could skewer on their bayonets. I couldn’t imagine standing by watching someone harm the baby of my worst enemy never mind do it myself. It would literally take watching my own children be killed to drive me to that and I don’t think I would do it with the sort of frivolity those soldiers showed, I would know that I was doing something my soul would never recover from. > [@](#): > > Not to downplay the evil of the Germans at all, but the Japanese never get their due - I consider them to be as evil or more than the Germans, but you almost never hear about it, whereas you’ve heard about the holocaust at least 100,000 times in your life. I think it might have something to do with the difference between the rounding up and extermination of a historically persecuted minority versus war atrocities by a society that never made sense to us to begin with. I’ve been to Japan and there seems to be a different morality among the Japanese. Some of that stuff is truly twisted. > [@](#): > > In addition to that, the official policy in Japan is dangerously close to the equivelant of holocaust denialism, whereas at least the Germans are thoroughly ashamed and sorry for what they did. Having your country split in half for half a century can make you reflective. The price the Japanese paid was the reconstruction of their country by the Americans and the preservation of their monarchy. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-japanese-so-cruel-in-world-war-ii/565034/38 "2010-12-22T17:55:40Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Holy shit. Republicans are a Buddhist cult. This isn’t a partisan issue. This goes fore everybody: please avoid further comments like this. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-japanese-so-cruel-in-world-war-ii/565034/39 "2010-12-22T18:05:07Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Japan has historically been a very xenophobic and racist culture. Once you’ve convinced yourself your enemy are subhumans not even worthy to live, and you’re a dick, you go nuts. Maybe…once you’ve convinced yourself your enemy are subhumans not even worthy to live, you _become_ a dick. Another culture in the Western hemisphere comes to mind. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-japanese-so-cruel-in-world-war-ii/565034/40 "2010-12-22T18:09:58Z")
Why is there always a need to draw imagined parallels to one’s own culture and try to draw some purse-lipped moral equivalence? The Japanese were uniquely cruel in their own way, to an extent that it shocked even the Nazis on the scene. This isn’t racist and it isn’t a chest-thumping statement of Western superiority. It’s simply a statement of fact. Why not just leave it at that? ETA: I was assuming Musicat was trying to make some kind of statement about the US in Afghanistan or something or other, but on reflection s/he probably meant the Nazis. Still – we get it. Japanese bad, Germans also bad. Noone disputing that. It’s not a racial issue. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-japanese-so-cruel-in-world-war-ii/565034.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-japanese-so-cruel-in-world-war-ii/565034.md?page=3)