# Why were the Japanese so cruel in World War II? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 22, 2010, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-japanese-so-cruel-in-world-war-ii/565034 "2010-12-22T02:36:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2010, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-japanese-so-cruel-in-world-war-ii/565034/101 "2010-12-23T15:34:42Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I’m a bit late to the thread, but personally I wouldn’t view it as a “Japanese” thing. > > Mankind is built to follow the lead of the big dog. If you’re in a troop of 20 people and the commander is a sick bastard, the 20 underlings will generally all act like sick bastards as well. If that commander is higher up the command chain, then 200 or 2,000 or 20,000 soldiers will all act in that same manner. It’s just one of those things. > > I don’t know who the person would be to blame, but I’d be fairly certain that the reason that the Japanese were so cruel in WWII is because several of the highest ranking people were evil bastards. Had the leadership been kind, you would have gotten a different result. > > Compare Washington and the US to Robespierre and France. So, Washington and Americans=good France and Robespierre= bad. Understood, I already had a hunch it was like that with the Iraq war. When Robespierre refused to back us up, or something. ---
**Author:** ![Sablicious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@Sablicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sablicious)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2010, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-japanese-so-cruel-in-world-war-ii/565034/102 "2010-12-23T15:45:28Z")
> [@HubZilla](#): > > Why were the Japanese so cruel in World War II? Much like with Colon Columbus, seems some get the ‘selected works’ of their history text book at school - lol! Essential viewing: [**City of Life and Death**](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1124052/) \*Easily found and readily available to stream on-line. Won’t link however, as unsure to rules regarding linking of copyrighted stuff here. It’s on YouTube in part form also. **NB:** This movie was criticised in Sino circles for its ‘humanistic’ protrayal of the Japanese. In light of the gravitas of the film, it should speak volumes for how deep the Nippon kitana cut into China in 1937. ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2010, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-japanese-so-cruel-in-world-war-ii/565034/103 "2010-12-23T16:38:10Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#): > > Hey, the world was being destroyed pretty well _by_ people with bayonets, when we dropped the bomb—and it actually unleashed an age _lacking_ in 50 million+ death wars. _And_ helped bring that immediate war to a quick end. The only bad thing about the atomic bomb… was not using it 3 1/2 years earlier on both Japan and Germany. We could have prevented a lot of cruelties. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2010, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-japanese-so-cruel-in-world-war-ii/565034/104 "2010-12-23T18:04:14Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > The only bad thing about the atomic bomb… was not using it 3 1/2 years earlier on both Japan and Germany. > > We could have prevented a lot of cruelties. Would have been quite impossible as the thing wasn’t developed until 1945. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2010, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-japanese-so-cruel-in-world-war-ii/565034/105 "2010-12-23T18:31:09Z")
By the way, today is the anniversary of the [hanging of Tojo](http://www.executedtoday.com/2008/12/23/1948-hideki-tojo-and-six-other-japanese-war-criminals/) (boy, they sure used a fat rope on that guy!) The linked article gives its answer to the OP: groupthink. ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2010, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-japanese-so-cruel-in-world-war-ii/565034/106 "2010-12-23T19:17:36Z")
Originally Posted by Susanann The only bad thing about the atomic bomb… was not using it 3 1/2 years earlier on both Japan and Germany. We could have prevented a lot of cruelties. > [@joebuck20](#): > > Would have been quite impossible as the thing wasn’t developed until 1945. Yes, that was so unfortunate, bc, nuking Japan and Germany in January 1942 would have prevented tens of millions of cruelties and saved tens of millions of jews, Soviets, Americans, Chinese, et al…even saved millions of lives of the axis enemy, and would have also prevented the cold war. The Japanese were so cruel… because… we were not able to nuclearly prevent them from being cruel earlier than we were. If the US had not defeated Japan, the cruelties by the Japanese would never have stopped and they would be unending to this day. ---
**Author:** ![storyguide3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@storyguide3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyguide3)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2010, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-japanese-so-cruel-in-world-war-ii/565034/107 "2010-12-23T20:06:33Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > Yes, that was so unfortunate, bc, nuking Japan and Germany in January 1942 would have prevented tens of millions of cruelties and saved tens of millions of jews, Soviets, Americans, Chinese, et al…even saved millions of lives of the axis enemy, and would have also prevented the cold war. > > The Japanese were so cruel… because… we were not able to nuclearly prevent them from being cruel earlier than we were. > > If the US had not defeated Japan, the cruelties by the Japanese would never have stopped and they would be unending to this day. If we are playing alt-history, why not nuke Germany in 1939? Would the US not assist it’s British and Commonwealth friends in ending cruelty when the war started in the first place? 🙂 For that matter, if we could have nuked Japan in 1931 (Manchurian invasion) or 1937 (invasion of the rest of China, leading to the Rape on Nanjing among other things) that would have stopped even more suffering. Of course there is always the possibility that if nuclear weapons had not been used when they were, in a world exhausted by war and appalled at the costs we had already paid, we might not have been so shocked by these weapons and been tempted to use them a few more times, maybe without the intent to prevent cruelty? As to your final statement, does this indicate that you think that the Japanese are prone to cruelty as a trait and therefore required outside intervention to stop it? Or do you feel that the Japanese government of the time, if not defeated at that point, would have retained power to this day and that would be the cause of unending cruelty? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2010, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-japanese-so-cruel-in-world-war-ii/565034/108 "2010-12-24T00:49:33Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > What could Robespierre have done in America if he magically traded places with Washington? Not much, I’m betting. There was a unique social and cultural background that allowed a bookish sort with a famously “gentle smile” to turn the levers of the French state into a murder machine. In colonial America he’d have been ridden on a rail out of Boston, covered with feathers. Possible. Personally I wouldn’t bet on “it couldn’t happen here”. I don’t have any personal reason to think that under certain circumstances – recession, losing our hegemony, etc. – that we wouldn’t elect some sort of Fascist, nationalistic leader who panders to the lowest classes and who starts committing human rights violations. Look at Gitmo and Abu Ghraib and you’ll see that we already got halfway there. And Bush was elected -before- 9/11. Imagine if we’d elected someone in the 3-4 months following 9/11. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2010, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-japanese-so-cruel-in-world-war-ii/565034/109 "2010-12-24T02:34:39Z")
The Japanese fighting to the death – I believe in some rare cases, there were soldiers who NEVER surrendered. There was cases of them hiding out, refusing to believe the war was over. [Many were found as late as the 1970s](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/336/did-some-japanese-soldiers-hold-out-for-years-after-wwii) ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2010, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-japanese-so-cruel-in-world-war-ii/565034/110 "2010-12-24T05:27:01Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > Completely untrue. The Code of Bushido allowed for honorable surrender and required proper treatment of those taken prisoner. Nothing in Shinto promoted atrocities either. Moreover, Bushido was the way of the warrior class, the Samurai, not the common conscripted soldier. The [Imperial Rescript to Soldiers and Sailors](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Rescript_to_Soldiers_and_Sailors) issued on the creation of the Imperial Japanese Army during the Meiji restoration in 1882 was a hodge-podge of half-digested Bushido, Buddhism, and Confucianism. Even still, the Japanese were noted for their humane treatment of Russian prisoners in the Russo-Japanese War of 1905. The decent into utter barbarism happened after that and has little at all to do with proper Bushido or Shinto. A good read on the topic is [Soldiers of the Sun: The Rise and Fall of the Imperial Japanese Army](http://www.amazon.com/Soldiers-Sun-Rise-Imperial-Japanese/dp/0679753036). From what little I know (not much) the behavior during WW2 was a twisting and a perversion of bushido that was being promoted or at least tolerated by “the brass”. In the Book of the Seven Rings, for example it does not demand death before surrender in all cases. Such a stupid throwing away of life is called a “dog’s death” in that it serves no purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2010, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-japanese-so-cruel-in-world-war-ii/565034/111 "2010-12-24T09:06:26Z")
In the 1920s-30s, there was a faction in the Japanese army, made up of largely young officers, and led by a general named Sadao Araki, called the “Imperial Way”, or Kodoha. Araki was also a member of the Kokuhonsha, the National Foundation Society. These were nationalist, millitarist, fascist groups that said, “The problem with Japan is that we’ve turned away from our roots and adopted foreign ideals, rather than embracing the Japanese national spirit”, and this faction came to take control of the Japanese military and foreign policy apparatus in the 1930s. And one of the things they believed, basically, is that the lives of other Japanese, let alone non-Japanese, was irrelevant as a national consideration. So, the Japanese army was indoctrinated with the idea that, first, the Japanese were inherantly superior to everyone else, second, that it was the duty of an inferior to obey their superior without question, and third, that individual life didn’t matter. Given that set of beliefs, there’s no reason not to be cruel. ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2010, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-japanese-so-cruel-in-world-war-ii/565034/112 "2010-12-24T12:14:06Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > From what little I know (not much) the behavior during WW2 was a twisting and a perversion of bushido that was being promoted or at least tolerated by “the brass”. In the Book of the Seven Rings, for example it does not demand death before surrender in all cases. Such a stupid throwing away of life is called a “dog’s death” in that it serves no purpose. [nitpick] The Book of Five Rings. Go Rin No Sho. [/nitpick] ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2010, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-japanese-so-cruel-in-world-war-ii/565034/113 "2010-12-24T13:14:52Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > I just think it makes it hard to discuss the Japanese moral failings, when we had quite a few of our own. You never, or more properly your country never, to my knowledge had anything like unit 731 during WWII. > **[Unit 731](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731)** > > Unit 731 (Japanese: 731部隊, Hepburn: Nana-san-ichi Butai),\[note 1\] officially known as the Manchu Detachment 731 and also referred to as the Kamo Detachment: 198  and the Ishii Unit, was a secret research facility operated by the Imperial Japanese Army between 1936 and 1945. It was located in the Pingfang district of Harbin, in the Japanese puppet state of Manchukuo (now part of Northeast China), and maintained multiple branches across mainland China and Southeast Asia. > Unit 731 was responsible... You did, or course, put people in camps because of their race. But you didn’t cut them up like animals. It’s a big difference in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2010, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-japanese-so-cruel-in-world-war-ii/565034/114 "2010-12-24T15:03:16Z")
> [@storyguide3](#): > > If we are playing alt-history, why not nuke Germany in 1939? Or, for that matter, why not decide who’s about to be our enemy _today_, and nuke them pre-emptively to keep them from being cruel bastards? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2010, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-japanese-so-cruel-in-world-war-ii/565034/115 "2010-12-24T20:52:28Z")
> [@Tristan](#): > > [nitpick] > > The Book of Five Rings. Go Rin No Sho. > > [/nitpick] They had to change it after the Olympic Movement sued for trademark infringement. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2010, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-japanese-so-cruel-in-world-war-ii/565034/116 "2010-12-24T21:11:20Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > The Japanese fighting to the death – I believe in some rare cases, there were soldiers who NEVER surrendered. There was cases of them hiding out, refusing to believe the war was over. > > [Many were found as late as the 1970s](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/336/did-some-japanese-soldiers-hold-out-for-years-after-wwii) I read we had 48,000 Japanese prisoners after the war. They are like anybody else. ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2010, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-japanese-so-cruel-in-world-war-ii/565034/117 "2010-12-24T21:15:00Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > They had to change it after the Olympic Movement sued for trademark infringement. 😛 You joke (and funnily, I might add) but the CCG “Legend of the 5 Rings” had to change their logo after exactly that happened. lol ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2010, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-japanese-so-cruel-in-world-war-ii/565034/118 "2010-12-25T04:05:18Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > I read we had 48,000 Japanese prisoners after the war. They are like anybody else. What the hell does that have to do with what I wrote? ---
**Author:** ![Brandinho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Brandinho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brandinho)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2010, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-japanese-so-cruel-in-world-war-ii/565034/119 "2010-12-25T09:37:18Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > What the hell does that have to do with what I wrote? I’m not sure that anything Gonzomax has written is relevant to anything anybody else has written in this thread. He seems to be in his own strange little world. I, for one, am getting sick of his ignorant equivocation of Japanese and American atrocities. Yeah, Hiroshima and Nagasaki were very sad occurrences. But there was at least a somewhat humanitarian aspect to the bombings, chiefly the belief that it’d save considerable lives (on both sides and particularly civilian casualties). But I fail to see any positive aspect to tearing babies from the arms of Chinese women, throwing them in fires and then raping the women to death. All atrocities are reprehensible but they’re not all equivalently evil. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2010, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-japanese-so-cruel-in-world-war-ii/565034/120 "2010-12-25T15:58:56Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > What the hell does that have to do with what I wrote? Really, you don’t see the contradiction of you claiming the Japanese fight to the death, yet we took many thousands of them prisoners? They obviously did not fight to the death. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-japanese-so-cruel-in-world-war-ii/565034.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-japanese-so-cruel-in-world-war-ii/565034.md?page=7)