# Why were Tupac Shakur and Notorious BIG killed? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 6, 2005, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-tupac-shakur-and-notorious-big-killed/293154 "2005-03-06T01:42:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2005, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-tupac-shakur-and-notorious-big-killed/293154/1 "2005-03-06T01:42:32Z")
[Per the linked MSNBC article quoted below - “Hip Hop Probe”](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7092601/site/newsweek/page/2/) did anything ever come out as to a definitive reason they were targeted and killed? > [@](#): > > The violence first erupted into public view in the mid-1990s. That was the beginning of the so-called East Coast-West Coast rap wars pitting Sean “P. Diddy” Combs’s New York- based Bad Boy Entertainment against Suge Knight’s Los Angeles-based Death Row Records (now Tha Row). It took on all the bloodiness of a real war with the 1996 murder of Tupac Shakur, Death Row’s star, and the slaying a few months later of Notorious BIG, Bad Boy’s star. Both murders remain unsolved, despite massive investigations, including a long-running federal probe of Death Row Records and, according to sources, a second rap label that is highly familiar to the public. Since the murders of the genre’s two biggest stars, a spate of other killings, shootings, stabbings and assaults have left hip hop bloodstained. In 2002, Jam Master Jay of the pioneering rap group Run DMC was shot dead. Authorities have yet to charge anyone with his murder. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2005, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-tupac-shakur-and-notorious-big-killed/293154/2 "2005-03-06T02:00:43Z")
Marketing. Or perhaps it is the rap version of the heroin overdose. ---
**Author:** ![mike1dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@mike1dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mike1dog)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2005, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-tupac-shakur-and-notorious-big-killed/293154/3 "2005-03-06T04:42:04Z")
To answer your question: Yes they were both killed. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2005, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-tupac-shakur-and-notorious-big-killed/293154/4 "2005-03-06T05:44:43Z")
The answer to your question is that there really is no definitive answer yet. There have been dozens (maybe hundreds) of reports, articles, television specials, documentaries, etc., that all tackle the question from their own angle, but there is no clear-cut answer as of right now. Suge Knight and Puff Daddy were undoubtedly playing their superstars against each other - or at least not discouraging what was happening naturally - for the sake of promotion, but the whole feud is much, much deeper than that. You’ve got to remember that, although Tupac is commonly associated with California, he grew up in NYC, and knew Biggie for years. They were best friends at one point. I don’t think this case will be solved anytime soon, and there’s a whole other slew of theories on why _that_ is, as well . . . [Chris Rock]“Tupac got shot on the Las Vegas strip after a TYSON FIGHT! More people saw Tupac get killed than saw the last episode of Seinfeld! But still…no witnesses, no leads.” ---
**Author:** ![riko-not-so-suave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ba8739/32.png) [@riko-not-so-suave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/riko-not-so-suave)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2005, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-tupac-shakur-and-notorious-big-killed/293154/5 "2005-03-06T06:23:10Z")
There are all sorts of conspiracy theories of why 2pac got killed One is that 2pac wanted to leave Death Row records so Suge Knight got him killed. It does bring up the question that if it was a drive by and suge was in the same car as 2pac, how is it that he got away basically unscathed? And 2pac who always wore a bullet-proof vest wasn’t wearing it that night? But the fact is I’ve seen (I believe) MGM surveillance tape where 2pac and his gang beat the hell out of a rival gang member, so it probably was gang retaliation. And though I don’t know much about biggie, I’m sure it’d be safe to say that he was killed because of gang activity too. ---
**Author:** ![galen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecc23a/32.png) [@galen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2005, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-tupac-shakur-and-notorious-big-killed/293154/6 "2005-03-06T16:12:21Z")
But why is there so much violence surrounding _this_ particular genre? As far as I know, there are no counry-western, jazz, or blues artists being iced. ---
**Author:** ![alterego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6bbea6/32.png) [@alterego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alterego)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2005, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-tupac-shakur-and-notorious-big-killed/293154/7 "2005-03-06T18:05:59Z")
Wikipedia gives this a pretty good [treatment](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupac_Shakur) ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2005, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-tupac-shakur-and-notorious-big-killed/293154/8 "2005-03-06T18:31:28Z")
> [@galen](#): > > But why is there so much violence surrounding _this_ particular genre? > > As far as I know, there are no counry-western, jazz, or blues artists being iced. Well, I imagine this is just a drive-by insult to hip-hop, like happens so often whenever the subject is mentioned here, but I’ll attempt to answer you. Firstly, rap is more popular than jazz, blues, and country-western\* is today. That is to say that there are more high-profile rappers than there are Hank Williams Jr’s, Kenny Gs, or Kenny Wayne Shepards. Secondly, there _has_ been violence in other genres. Johnny Paycheck shot a man. Ledbelly may or may not have killed a man. I’m trying to find a cite that stabbings and shootings were prevalent at jazz and blues clubs in the first half of the 20th century, which is something I’ve heard more than once. Thirdly, how violent is hip-hop? 1. 50-cent got shot before he was famous. I think it’s safe to say this was unrelated. 2. Scott LaRock’s murder is still unsolved. It may have been over an MC battle and may have been over a girl. 3. Jam Master Jay’s murder is unsolved but almost definitely unrelated to music, considering he never battled anyone and hadn’t done anything mainstream in over 15 years at the time of his death. 4. Tupac - unsolved, maybe related to his battle with Biggie. 5. Biggie - unsolved, maybe related to his battle with Tupac. So that’s 5 murders in 30 years of rap, 3 of which _MIGHT_ be related to the fact that the victims were involved in rap. I think you’re buying into some kind of hype if you’re asking why this music is _sooooo_ violent. [sub]\*Nitpickers: I realize that the music that is now referred to as “Country” is currently the most popular radio format in the US, but I would refer to that music as “pop” or “pop/country” and the previous poster specified “country-western”.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2005, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-tupac-shakur-and-notorious-big-killed/293154/9 "2005-03-06T19:37:42Z")
I shot Biggie’s breakthrough video, entitled “This Juicy” for Sean “Puffy” Combs’ Bad Boy Entertainment. It appeared to me that this was a guy who was damned grateful to get into rap and out of selling drugs on the streets in Brooklyn where we shot the video. ( Flatbush? Fulton. Hmm. Methinks not Lafayette, but I’d have to look at a map ). It was painful to hear of his death. So much death, his not of greater value than any other life, but because I’d met the fellow it touched me. ---
**Author:** ![yBeayf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e274bd/32.png) [@yBeayf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yBeayf)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2005, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-tupac-shakur-and-notorious-big-killed/293154/10 "2005-03-06T19:46:02Z")
Hip hop has nothing on black metal when it comes to violence. Look what happend to [Mayhem](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayhem_%28band%29), for starters. ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2005, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-tupac-shakur-and-notorious-big-killed/293154/11 "2005-03-07T02:14:30Z")
> [@yBeayf](#): > > Hip hop has nothing on black metal when it comes to violence. Look what happend to [Mayhem](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayhem_%28band%29), for starters. Holy cow!!! :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: That´s unbelivable, they even used the picture of their dead, head-blasted-brains-dripping picture of their former singer as a cover art. Those guys are mental. ---
**Author:** ![HG\_Pennypacker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f17d59/32.png) [@HG\_Pennypacker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HG_Pennypacker)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2005, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-tupac-shakur-and-notorious-big-killed/293154/12 "2005-03-07T05:22:16Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > I shot Biggie’s breakthrough video, entitled “This Juicy” for Sean “Puffy” Combs’ Bad Boy Entertainment. Seriously? In what capacity? I hear my bullshit meter going off. o\_O ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2005, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-tupac-shakur-and-notorious-big-killed/293154/13 "2005-03-07T05:45:19Z")
> [@HG Pennypacker](#): > > Seriously? In what capacity? I hear my bullshit meter going off. o\_O Cartooniverse is professional video cameraman. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2005, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-tupac-shakur-and-notorious-big-killed/293154/14 "2005-03-07T06:57:20Z")
> [@HG Pennypacker](#): > > o\_O Hey, I’ve seen this face before . . . ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2005, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-tupac-shakur-and-notorious-big-killed/293154/15 "2005-03-07T12:48:38Z")
Now, now. **HG** is a Guest. We shall treat him/her accordingly. Can’t expect guests to read up on everybody who posts into a thread. I’m a professional Cameraman and Steadicam Operator. I spent two days shooting that video. The first day was in Brooklyn, on the corners where Biggie used to sell drugs. Amongst other very fun shots I got to do, I talked the crane operator into allowing me to do a “crane walk-off”, where I ride the crane down and as it his bottom, I step off and keep shooting. Lots of fun. What can I tell you about bullshit? This is the Straight Dope. I don’t care to identify myself. However, I can tell you that Sean Combs Executive Produced and Directed. Igor Sunara was the Director of Photography and Lara Schwartz was the Producer of record. The second day was spent way out on Long Island, at the home of an architect. The location was a poured cement walls home. All raw cement walls. Fascinating look. Extremely cool on the hot summer’s day, let me tell you. The pool had a kind of weird pedestal thing you could climb up on, and some did while I shot people in and around the pool. For all of the shennanigans that go with a music video, I must say that when it came time to do the walking-by-the-pool shots and I was in danger of being splashed heavily by the “background extras” ( read: friends of Puffy and Biggie’s, and Bad Boy Entertainment folks ), Puffy got them all quiet and informed them that I had a bit over $ 175,000 worth of gear strapped to my body that **he** was financially responsible for, and nobody was to splash a drop towards me. 🙂 Went just fine after that. There are two shots that Puffy appears in. One, an interior at the architect’s home where Puffy, Igor and Biggie are sitting and I carry a shot where I draw a servant out of the kitchen as she carries champagne flutes to them. The other is outside in the pool. Not only does he appear, but his wife of the time and their small son appeared as well. I also shot Mary J. Blige, Craig Mack and Sister Machine Gun videos for Mr. Combs’ company. I am sorry if your bullshit meter rang, but all I can tell you is that this is what I do for a living. -shrug- believe it or not. Cartooniverse ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2005, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-tupac-shakur-and-notorious-big-killed/293154/16 "2005-03-07T14:08:09Z")
( one further comment on the bullshit remark, which apparently stung more than I let on, delicate man that I am… ) One might question how I can name the names so easily after 10 years. Simple. Sean Combs is certainly a person and persona one does not forget. Igor and I just saw eachother a few months ago, he is still shooting. This video was Lara’s first as a line Producer and it made her. She’s a rocket and is still moving faster than the speed of sound. ---
**Author:** ![me\_jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@me\_jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/me_jane)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-tupac-shakur-and-notorious-big-killed/293154/17 "2005-03-08T07:06:10Z")
I believe that 2Pac is still alive…but that’s just me. In any case, I wonder if there was indeed some kind of conspiracy linked to both killings. I guess we’ll never know, unless a smoking gun of some sort is found. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2026, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-tupac-shakur-and-notorious-big-killed/293154/18 "2026-08-05T16:27:49Z")
Updating this 21 year old thread: > **[Duane 'Keffe D' Davis, charged with organizing the 1996 killing of Tupac...](https://apnews.com/article/tupac-shakur-killing-las-vegas-trial-4529257714634e87ed258fde044f948b)** > > Nearly 30 years after his death, Tupac Shakur will be front and center as a man who prosecutors say orchestrated his killing goes to trial. Better late than never! ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2026, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-tupac-shakur-and-notorious-big-killed/293154/19 "2026-08-05T18:57:17Z")
Yay an old thread. Here is why Tupac was killed. Death row records are associated with the piru bloods. A few months before Tupac was killed, some death row record employees were at a mall in LA. Members of the compton crips beat the hell out of them and stole their money and their jewelry. One of the crips who attacked and robbed them was Orlando Anderson. A few months later at the Tyson fight in Las Vegas, one of the death row employees recognized Orlando Anderson as one of the crips who attacked him. So Suge Knight, Tupac and the other death row employees beat the hell out of him in the hotel. After that Orlando Anderson and his uncle Keffe D murdered tupac in a drive by. I have no idea if they got paid by Puff Daddy for shooting him, but theres rumors that one of them reached out to Puff Daddy and agreed to kill tupac in exchange for payment. However I have no idea if that part is true. Supposedly bad boy records (Puff Daddy’s label) hired the southside compton crips as personal security. > **[Orlando Anderson](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orlando_Anderson)** > > Orlando Tive "Baby Lane" Anderson (August 13, 1974 – May 29, 1998) was an American gang member suspected in the murder of Tupac Shakur. Anderson had alleged affiliations to the California-based gang known as the South Side Compton Crips. Detective Tim Brennan of the Compton Police Department filed an affidavit naming Anderson as a suspect; he denied involvement and was never charged. Anderson's uncle, Duane Keith Davis, was charged with Shakur's murder on September 29, 2023. Anderson was shot a... Biggie Smalls was supposedly killed by a member of the piru bloods and death row associate named Wardell Fouse as a way to get revenge on Puff Daddy. Basically the whole thing was a proxy war for the east coast-west coast rap fued, and the feud between the mob piru bloods and the south side compton crips. [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ne0RrK5qJ-k/hqdefault.jpg "Mr Show - East Coast vs. West Coast Ventriloquism") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne0RrK5qJ-k) ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-tupac-shakur-and-notorious-big-killed/293154/20 "2026-09-01T01:33:46Z")
> **[Jury convicts a man of first-degree murder for the 1996 killing of rap icon...](https://apnews.com/article/tupac-shakur-trial-las-vegas-duane-davis-0b0b080d73f91cd122b6dd438e5bbb80)** > > A jury has found Duane “Keffe D” Davis guilty of orchestrating the 1996 killing of rapper Tupac Shakur. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-tupac-shakur-and-notorious-big-killed/293154.md?page=2)