# Why were US troops so reluctant to fasten the chinstraps on their helmets in WWII? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 4, 2014, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-us-troops-so-reluctant-to-fasten-the-chinstraps-on-their-helmets-in-wwii/682802 "2014-03-04T03:24:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-us-troops-so-reluctant-to-fasten-the-chinstraps-on-their-helmets-in-wwii/682802/21 "2014-03-04T20:13:43Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Ours went under the chin, did not have the chinstraps shown in your pic. The Army (and I must assume Marines also) got upgraded chinstraps for the steel pot helmet in the 1960s. They actually restarted the production line briefly in the Vietnam period. For WW2 helmets it would be a retrofit. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-us-troops-so-reluctant-to-fasten-the-chinstraps-on-their-helmets-in-wwii/682802/22 "2014-03-04T20:36:24Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > The Army (and I must assume Marines also) got upgraded chinstraps for the steel pot helmet in the 1960s. They actually restarted the production line briefly in the Vietnam period. For WW2 helmets it would be a retrofit. There is a pretty strong chance our helmets were made in WWII even though my ship did not launch until 1956. I could well see the Navy having a large number of helmets in warehouses on every base. It is not like we were issued helmets, they were just part of the equipment in the DC\* lockers. - Damage Control ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-us-troops-so-reluctant-to-fasten-the-chinstraps-on-their-helmets-in-wwii/682802/23 "2014-03-04T20:45:21Z")
Don’t know about WWII but I always unfastened the strap first chance I got. Lots of us did, and we got yelled at once in awhile. It just bugged me. OTOH, I would always fasten the strap on my motorcycle helmet. Some cyclists don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-us-troops-so-reluctant-to-fasten-the-chinstraps-on-their-helmets-in-wwii/682802/24 "2014-03-04T20:46:23Z")
That ball-and-hook T1 chinstrap is quite difficult to undo, not surprising many people left it undone. By the 1980s a new chinstrap was available, in nylon, which differed considerably. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-us-troops-so-reluctant-to-fasten-the-chinstraps-on-their-helmets-in-wwii/682802/25 "2014-03-04T22:18:21Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Not seeing a picture, don’t know if its a problem on my end Well fiddlesticks, [try this source](http://img.bhs4.com/FF/F/FFF527B0BA97003D4B6F94A228915FB6EBC8AF2A_large.jpg) But I’m wrong anyway: [link to site incl pic of Patton pinning a medal on a soldier with his chinstrap on the back of his helmet](http://kathmanduk2.wordpress.com/2010/06/21/yes-there-were-black-soldiers-in-the-liberation-of-france-during-wwii/) ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-us-troops-so-reluctant-to-fasten-the-chinstraps-on-their-helmets-in-wwii/682802/26 "2014-03-04T23:29:59Z")
It was annoying. I got yelled at in Iraq, 2007 for not having my chin strap on. ---
**Author:** ![slowlearner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@slowlearner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slowlearner)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-us-troops-so-reluctant-to-fasten-the-chinstraps-on-their-helmets-in-wwii/682802/27 "2014-03-05T00:04:16Z")
Paul Fussel writes in _The Boy’s Crusade_ that the belief in being decapitated by close in artillery fire was the reason, and he thinks it began as a practical joke. He was a combat infantryman in Europe. The site with Patton decorating the unstrapped soldier is great. Did Generals have to wear a chinstrap? ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_s\_Son](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@Jim\_s\_Son](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_s_Son)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-us-troops-so-reluctant-to-fasten-the-chinstraps-on-their-helmets-in-wwii/682802/28 "2014-03-05T02:22:33Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Not seeing a picture, don’t know if its a problem on my end. > > Patton was the king of what was known then as chicken shit. Enforcing garrison rules in combat. Ties, clean uniforms, MPs giving out tickets for motor vehicle violations. Whenever there is a discussion about toxic leadership on one of the military pages I frequent someone always says something like “Too bad we don’t have leaders like Patton anymore.” I try to explain how he was ten times worse about the stupid shit we complain about now than anyone currently in uniform. It usually falls on deaf ears. From what I’ve read, Patton had the respect of his men. War department people noticed that his soldiers would invariably described themselves as members or the Third Army or " I’m with Patton". Other soldiers would name their company or platoon. Few ever said they were with Bradley or Hodges. Patton was also very good at inflicting severe damage on the enemy while minimizing his own casualties. Like Sherman a century earlier, his soldiers appreciated it. ---
**Author:** ![installLSC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/54ee81/32.png) [@installLSC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/installLSC)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-us-troops-so-reluctant-to-fasten-the-chinstraps-on-their-helmets-in-wwii/682802/29 "2014-03-05T02:55:54Z")
> [@chacoguy](#): > > It’s a signature look, other countries seemed the get their troops to buckle up. Not to threadcrap, but are we sure other armies were real sticklers for fastening chinstraps? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-us-troops-so-reluctant-to-fasten-the-chinstraps-on-their-helmets-in-wwii/682802/30 "2014-03-05T15:25:24Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > But I’m wrong anyway: [link to site incl pic of Patton pinning a medal on a soldier with his chinstrap on the back of his helmet](http://kathmanduk2.wordpress.com/2010/06/21/yes-there-were-black-soldiers-in-the-liberation-of-france-during-wwii/) Patton has no visible chinstrap, himself. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-us-troops-so-reluctant-to-fasten-the-chinstraps-on-their-helmets-in-wwii/682802/31 "2014-03-05T15:37:46Z")
Every soldier who has ever worn a helmet knows it’s uncomfortable even in ideal situations. In damp, grimy field conditions, a chinstrap rubbing on a half day of stubble is a recipe for pain and rashes, to the point that you’re willing to decide that the chance of enemy action is too remote to justify the discomfort. Granted, this may not be a wise judgment, but it is driven by very real discomfort. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-us-troops-so-reluctant-to-fasten-the-chinstraps-on-their-helmets-in-wwii/682802/32 "2014-03-05T16:12:40Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Patton was the king of what was known then as chicken shit. Enforcing garrison rules in combat. Ties, clean uniforms, MPs giving out tickets for motor vehicle violations. Whenever there is a discussion about toxic leadership on one of the military pages I frequent someone always says something like “Too bad we don’t have leaders like Patton anymore.” I try to explain how he was ten times worse about the stupid shit we complain about now than anyone currently in uniform. It usually falls on deaf ears. Yeah, but he was hell at Bastogne. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-us-troops-so-reluctant-to-fasten-the-chinstraps-on-their-helmets-in-wwii/682802/33 "2014-03-05T16:32:55Z")
I interviewed a Korean and Viet Nam war vet (on tape) for hours once and this came up. He said that uniform standards in the field we very poor. Guns not always manned, personal protective gear not worn properly (helmets included) etc. most of the time. Keep in mind that actual fire fights were few and far between. But he said when the crap hit the fan, everything was buckled up, loaded up and manned within seconds! So I think at least part of this is that photos that show GIs without chinstraps are taken on the front perhaps, but not during battle. And during an actual fight when the chin straps might well be in place, there just aren’t many photos. And I think other countries military might have be more strict in noncombat situations. ---
**Author:** ![cornflakes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@cornflakes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornflakes)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-us-troops-so-reluctant-to-fasten-the-chinstraps-on-their-helmets-in-wwii/682802/34 "2014-03-05T17:12:38Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > I interviewed a Korean and Viet Nam war vet (on tape) for hours once and this came up. He said that uniform standards in the field we very poor. Guns not always manned, personal protective gear not worn properly (helmets included) etc. most of the time. Keep in mind that actual fire fights were few and far between. But he said when the crap hit the fan, everything was buckled up, loaded up and manned within seconds! > > So I think at least part of this is that photos that show GIs without chinstraps are taken on the front perhaps, but not during battle. And during an actual fight when the chin straps might well be in place, there just aren’t many photos. And I think other countries military might have be more strict in noncombat > situations. Robert Capa’s photos seem to back this up. The soldiers’ helmets are strapped on [while](http://i1296.photobucket.com/albums/ag10/n8huckins/dday%20poll/capadday_zps343b0432.jpg) [in action](http://s1296.photobucket.com/user/n8huckins/media/dday%20poll/133900077623_zps58dc89ac.jpg.html), but the straps are off [when it’s quiet](http://i1296.photobucket.com/albums/ag10/n8huckins/dday%20poll/approachingomaha_zpsb4f4a506.jpg) and also [while at](http://i1296.photobucket.com/albums/ag10/n8huckins/dday%20poll/Eisenhower_d-day_zpsb55d88e5.jpg) [ease](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3c/War-photographers-p012971.jpg) (Note that he last picture is of war photographers, not soldiers.) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-us-troops-so-reluctant-to-fasten-the-chinstraps-on-their-helmets-in-wwii/682802/35 "2014-03-05T17:19:50Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > If you’ll accept a [wiki reference](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_helmet): Bah. Real Combat Infantry considered HtH a extremely low risk. However, my Dad (who had that badge) and fought in New Guinea said that you could not wear your helmet in that climate, your head would either rot or bake. ---
**Author:** ![Wakinyan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wakinyan/32/352_2.png) [@Wakinyan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wakinyan)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-us-troops-so-reluctant-to-fasten-the-chinstraps-on-their-helmets-in-wwii/682802/36 "2014-03-05T18:07:16Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Not seeing a picture, don’t know if its a problem on my end. > > Patton was the king of what was known then as chicken shit. Enforcing garrison rules in combat. Ties, clean uniforms, MPs giving out tickets for motor vehicle violations. Whenever there is a discussion about toxic leadership on one of the military pages I frequent someone always says something like “Too bad we don’t have leaders like Patton anymore.” I try to explain how he was ten times worse about the stupid shit we complain about now than anyone currently in uniform. It usually falls on deaf ears. I thought Patton was regarded as brave (“Patton had a preoccupation with bravery, wearing his rank insignia conspicuously in combat, and at one point during World War I rode atop a tank into a German-controlled village seeking to inspire courage in his men.” Wiki), brilliant (“‘Patton’s impact on armored warfare and leadership were substantial’.” Wiki) and very popular amongst his men too. But my knowledge is rudimentary (the autobiography, some book I can’t remember, the wiki article, and - of course - the film, ;), being my sources.) But you seem to have another picture of him? Would you like to elaborate a little bit? (Sorry for the hijack, but the original question seems to have been answered by now.) ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-us-troops-so-reluctant-to-fasten-the-chinstraps-on-their-helmets-in-wwii/682802/37 "2014-03-05T18:38:05Z")
> [@Wakinyan](#): > > I thought Patton was regarded as brave (“Patton had a preoccupation with bravery, wearing his rank insignia conspicuously in combat, and at one point during World War I rode atop a tank into a German-controlled village seeking to inspire courage in his men.” Wiki), brilliant (“‘Patton’s impact on armored warfare and leadership were substantial’.” Wiki) and very popular amongst his men too. But my knowledge is rudimentary (the autobiography, some book I can’t remember, the wiki article, and - of course - the film, ;), being my sources.) > > But you seem to have another picture of him? Would you like to elaborate a little bit? > > (Sorry for the hijack, but the original question seems to have been answered by now.) He does not mean that Patton was “chicken” but that he was a stickler for spit and shine by the book grooming. “Chicken Shit” petty stuff that no one wanted to be bothered with. Patton felt it would in the long run improve moral and thus performance. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-us-troops-so-reluctant-to-fasten-the-chinstraps-on-their-helmets-in-wwii/682802/38 "2014-03-05T19:59:34Z")
(Because if you care about attention to detail in the trivial you’ll care about it in the serious, is the line of thought.) In the picture, notice that the soldier being decorated has his chinstrap neatly secured around the back rim of the helmet – it’s likely that in that command the rule was that you do NOT just leave it dangling, it’s buckled if in battle and it’s tucked back (that specific way) if at ceremonies. The original chinstraps were not very easily detachable/reattachable if suddenly your rear echelon came under attack. ---
**Author:** ![Wakinyan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wakinyan/32/352_2.png) [@Wakinyan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wakinyan)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-us-troops-so-reluctant-to-fasten-the-chinstraps-on-their-helmets-in-wwii/682802/39 "2014-03-05T21:48:44Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > He does not mean that Patton was “chicken” but that he was a stickler for spit and shine by the book grooming. “Chicken Shit” petty stuff that no one wanted to be bothered with. Patton felt it would in the long run improve moral and thus performance. Thank you. Did it? Improve moral and thus performance, I mean. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-us-troops-so-reluctant-to-fasten-the-chinstraps-on-their-helmets-in-wwii/682802/40 "2014-03-05T21:54:03Z")
> [@Wakinyan](#): > > I thought Patton was regarded as brave (“Patton had a preoccupation with bravery, wearing his rank insignia conspicuously in combat, and at one point during World War I rode atop a tank into a German-controlled village seeking to inspire courage in his men.” Wiki), brilliant (“‘Patton’s impact on armored warfare and leadership were substantial’.” Wiki) and very popular amongst his men too. But my knowledge is rudimentary (the autobiography, some book I can’t remember, the wiki article, and - of course - the film, ;), being my sources.) > > But you seem to have another picture of him? Would you like to elaborate a little bit? > > (Sorry for the hijack, but the original question seems to have been answered by now.) > [@What\_Exit](#): > > He does not mean that Patton was “chicken” but that he was a stickler for spit and shine by the book grooming. “Chicken Shit” petty stuff that no one wanted to be bothered with. Patton felt it would in the long run improve moral and thus performance. Yes. Here is a passage from Ambrose’s _Citizen Soldiers._ It happens to mention the cartoon which was linked to up stream. > [@](#): > > General Patton had more than a bit of the chickenshit in him. He was notorious for being a martinet about dress and spit-and-polish in Third Army. He ordered – and sometimes may have gotten – front-line infantry to wear ties and to shave every day. Bill Mauldin did a famous cartoon about it. Willie and Joe are driving a beat-up jeep. A large road sign informs them that “You Are Entering The Third Army!” There follows a list of fines for anyone entering the area: no helmet, $25; no shave $10; no tie $25; and so on. Willie tells Joe, “Radio th’ ol’ man we’ll be late on account of a thousand-mile detour.” > > But it was no joke. Patton’s spit-and-polish obsession some times cost dearly. It not only had nothing to do with winning the war, it hurt the war effort. > > Twenty-year-old Lt. Bill Leesemann was in a reconnaissance section of the 101st Engineer Combat Battalion, attached to the 26th Division. On December 18, the 26th, along with the 80th and the 4th Armored, got orders to break off the attack in Lorraine, turn from east to north, and smash into the German southern flank of the Bulge. This required frenetic activity. Leesemann’s job was to go from division headquarters in Metz to the Third Army Engineer headquarters in Nancy, to pick up maps – no one in the attacking divisions had any maps of Luxembourg. It was a sixty-kilometer drive. Leesemann and his driver took off late on December 19, as the 26th was forming up to head toward Luxembourg. It wouldn’t be able to move out until the maps arrived. > > It was raining; the road was muddy; troops moving north caused delays. It was full dark by the time Leesemann got to Nancy. He stopped at a crossroads, where “a real spit-and-polish MP was directing traffic.” Leesemann asked directions to the Engineers hq. The MP took one look at the dirty, unshaven lieutenant and driver and ordered them to the MP post. He said they could not proceed into Third Army area until they had washed the jeep, shaved, and put on clean uniforms. Leesemann replied that such things were out of the question and explained the urgency of the situation. The MP called his corporal. > > Twenty minutes later the corporal arrived. After further interrogation, he called the sergeant. The sergeant came, more talk, finally he called Engineers hq. Permission to come on was granted. > > Leesemann drove to the hq, “a large chateau with surrounding gardens. The sentries at the large iron gate entrance gave us the same routine with threats of being arrested; ‘No way will we be responsible for admitting you two into the Command area.’” > > Another call, another wait. Eventually, but not without further adventures in the maze of Third Army, Leesemann got the maps and returned to 26th Division hq. It was 0500 hours, December 20. The division had been ready to move since 0100 hours. It was waiting for the maps. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-us-troops-so-reluctant-to-fasten-the-chinstraps-on-their-helmets-in-wwii/682802.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-us-troops-so-reluctant-to-fasten-the-chinstraps-on-their-helmets-in-wwii/682802.md?page=3)