# Why Were World War II Vet Writers So Cynical? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 8, 2012, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-world-war-ii-vet-writers-so-cynical/630867 "2012-08-08T15:34:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![AdmiralCrunch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6f9a4e/32.png) [@AdmiralCrunch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AdmiralCrunch)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2012, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-world-war-ii-vet-writers-so-cynical/630867/21 "2012-08-09T18:46:53Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Does this only apply to literature since in movies (at least until recently) and books like those by Stephen Ambrose, WWII is definitely portrayed as a “good war” and its soldiers as part of the “Greatest Generation”. The word you’re missing is **veteran.** Stephen Ambrose isn’t a WWII vet, and I’m struggling to think of an American director who was. Off the top of my head, Roman Polanksi and Andrzej Wajda seem appropriately cynical. And don’t forget Salinger’s contributions to the grumpy vet genre. ---
**Author:** ![JohnM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/848f3c/32.png) [@JohnM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnM)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2012, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-world-war-ii-vet-writers-so-cynical/630867/22 "2012-08-09T20:10:57Z")
> [@AdmiralCrunch](#): > > …I’m struggling to think of an American director who was. Sam Fuller is the first one that occurs to me; [The Steel Helmet](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0044072/) was a Korean War movie made while the war was still going on, and [The Big Red One](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080437/) was based on Sam’s own experiences fighting across Europe with the 1st Infantry Division. ---
**Author:** ![Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellis_Aponte_Jr)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2012, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-world-war-ii-vet-writers-so-cynical/630867/23 "2012-08-09T21:06:55Z")
Sam Peckinpah was a Marine and was sent to Japan in 1945 immediately after WWII, but (according to Wiki) he says he witnessed combat there between Japanese & Chinese soldiers, which affected his attitudes toward violence. ---
**Author:** ![Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellis_Aponte_Jr)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2012, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-world-war-ii-vet-writers-so-cynical/630867/24 "2012-08-09T21:09:57Z")
And Robert Altman, of course. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2012, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-world-war-ii-vet-writers-so-cynical/630867/25 "2012-08-09T21:31:51Z")
[QUOTE=Tom Tildrum] Note too that in the excerpt from S5 quoted above, Vonnegut is expressly mocking FHTE. His book isn’t just about the war; it’s also a reaction to earlier books about the war. [/QUOTE] > [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > I’ve read most of James Jones’ war writing: _From Here to Eternity. The Thin Red Line, Whistle_, and the short stories, and I don’t recall any of it glorifying war as a chest-thumping, dramaturgic proving ground for ones manhood. Disgusting, brutalizing and terrifying. In the movie version of The **Thin Red Line** , you may remember Sean Penn’s character bitching “property, property!” In the book his point was that war and army life in general could bring out ones inner Bolshevik I don’t think the passage from “Slaughterhouse 5” is aimed so much at “From Here to Eternity” as it is at the rah-rah WWII movies that often starred John Wayne (e.g, **The Sands of Iwo Jima** ). That’s why there’s also that potshot at Wayne who, like Sinatra, never served during the war. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-world-war-ii-vet-writers-so-cynical/630867/26 "2012-08-12T04:21:13Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > The RAF bombed Germany in the relative safety of night, while the USAF insisted on precison daylight raids: get the bombs on-target and you won’t have to go back. Again, a bleak plane ride as the sun helps the anti-aircraft gunners more than moonlight and searchlights could, as well as enemy fighters. Actually, it was the other way around. Losses for night sorties were [double](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_bombing_during_World_War_II#Allied_bombing_statistics_1939.E2.80.9345) those of daylight sorties. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-world-war-ii-vet-writers-so-cynical/630867/27 "2012-08-12T04:30:12Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > (You list Joseph Heller twice.) > [@Enginerd](#): > > I like Joseph Heller. [I see what you did there.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_urvjCXg6c) 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-world-war-ii-vet-writers-so-cynical/630867.md?page=1)