# Why were Zebras never domesticated? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 17, 2001, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-zebras-never-domesticated/65701 "2001-05-17T06:57:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2001, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-zebras-never-domesticated/65701/21 "2001-05-17T23:27:33Z")
General comments: I, too, am a fan of Diamond’s book and will add my recommendation 🙂 . Though I do remember disagreeing with it here and there. Re: Taming vs. Domesticating animals - Another case is the Cheetah, that tames remarkably quickly and can be quite dog-like in its behavior. The Mughal Padishahs used to keep hundreds for coursing game. Unfortunately it won’t breed in captivity worth a damn, despite the best efforts of many, making it unsuitable for domestication. One result - Cheetahs are now extinct in Northern India despite having been a favorite play thing of the monarchs there. **Whack-a-Mole** : I’m gonna go along with **bdgr** on this one. Certain strains of cattle are not at all like your average brain-dead dairy cow. They’re tough, fit, ornery, and well-adapted to rugged climes. Not too far from your stereotypical Cape Water Buffalo, really - And _nobody_ messes with those. **DDG, Collounsbury** : I believe wheels have been found on what appear to be Incan toys. **sjc** : Re: Domestic dogs retaining juvenile features - Yep. The process is called neoteny and can be seen both behaviorally and physically. An adult Labrador Retriever looks pretty much identical to a puppy. Whereas a wolf puupy looks very similar to a Lab puppy, but an adult wolf looks quite different indeed. This carries over into behavior, as apparenty the retrieval instinct is common to a particular stage of development in all puppies. In the neotenic retrievers, this behavioral trait has been preserved in a sexually mature adult. Ad that’s just one of a hundreds of examples ( many of which are more complex and less clear-cut ). There was a very nice article in Smithsonian Magazine some years ago ( decades? ) in relation to sheep dogs. -Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![Autumn\_Wind\_Chick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Autumn\_Wind\_Chick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autumn_Wind_Chick)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2001, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-zebras-never-domesticated/65701/22 "2001-05-18T01:48:13Z")
It’s just a WAG, but I think you’re not giving enough credit to the hardy souls who domesticated horses. Of course, nobody knows for sure, but I would guess that the original horses were not that much easier to approach and domesticate than zebras. Also, any list of domesticated animals should include humans, for better or worse. ---
**Author:** ![Akatsukami](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ea666f/32.png) [@Akatsukami](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akatsukami)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2001, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-zebras-never-domesticated/65701/23 "2001-05-18T01:48:27Z")
**Collounsbury** writes: > [@](#): > > That seems unlikely as Zebras were extent all the way up through North East Africa and the folks there were well aware of domestication. (Contra Akatsumi, that would include non-hunter gatherers) Eh? Perhaps we’re working from different definitions here, but I think that “cattle-herders” indicates pastoralism, which is rather different from a HFG economy. The !San (Bushmen) _are_ hunter-gatherers to this very day, but I believe that that’s attributed to pressure from pastoralists since about 500 BCE. > [@](#): > > Rather it would appear that Zebras were more trouble in the long term than they were worth as potential domesticates, given the stage of economic development. I agree with that completely. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2001, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-zebras-never-domesticated/65701/24 "2001-05-18T02:49:45Z")
slight hijack here. I seem to recall either a movie or a music video (possibly even a commercial) from some intermidable number of years ago which featured a character at some point (perhaps a dream sequence) riding a zebra bare back. I remember it stuck out in my head because I’d never seen anything like that before and it made me wonder why as they’d look pretty cool in a parade. I can’t say for certain that it _wasn’t_ a horse painted to look like a zebra, but I did try to ascertain if it was one, and it didn’t look like a paint job. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2001, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-zebras-never-domesticated/65701/25 "2001-05-18T03:18:17Z")
You might have seen somebody riding a zebra. There’s been a few people raise them, particularly for cross-breeding with horses or donkeys, but it’s hardly a major industry, and I’d tend to agree that it just isn’t practical: [http://www.barred-m-ranch.com](http://www.barred-m-ranch.com) [http://hometown.aol.com/zzorse/index.html](http://hometown.aol.com/zzorse/index.html) Equine hybrids involving zebras have been variously called zebroids, zebrules, zorses, zonkeys … ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2001, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-zebras-never-domesticated/65701/26 "2001-05-18T07:59:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Akatsukami \* > \*\ ***Collounsbury** writes: > Eh? Perhaps we’re working from different definitions here, but I think that “cattle-herders” indicates pastoralism, which is rather different from a HFG economy. Oh bloody hell, I misrecalled your statement while I was writing the reply. My apologies. > [@](#): > > The !San (Bushmen) _are_ hunter-gatherers to this very day, but I believe that that’s attributed to pressure from pastoralists since about 500 BCE. True, true. > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Rather it would appear that Zebras were more trouble in the long term than they were worth as potential domesticates, given the stage of economic development. > > I agree with that completely. Precisely, and contra AWC’s WAG, genetic evidence suggests multiple domestication events from seperate equine pools, strongly suggesting that the equine rootstock was in fact quite approachable and thus shouldn’t be assumed ipso fact to be equivalent of Zebra. (See Vila et al “Widespread Origins of Domestic Horse Lineages” 291 _Science_ (5503) 474 ) In the context of present knowledge, given folks who had knowledge of domestication, interbred two different cattle breeds (Indian and NEAfrica/Middle Eastern) to produce a hybrid --suggesting they were not innocent of a certain animal husbandry-- non-domestication of Zebras should be considered to have been too much of a pain in the ass (and remain so today even given greater resources). ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2001, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-zebras-never-domesticated/65701/27 "2001-05-18T14:42:30Z")
**Tuckerfan,** you may be thinking of the forgettable 1984 movie [Sheena](http://us.imdb.com/Details?0088103) starring former Charlie’s Angel Tanya Roberts. According to the ‘goofs’ page at the IMDb, the zebra she’s riding is actually a horse. –sublight. ---
**Author:** ![Akatsukami](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ea666f/32.png) [@Akatsukami](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akatsukami)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2001, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-zebras-never-domesticated/65701/28 "2001-05-18T16:23:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Collounsbury \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Akatsukami \* > > **Collounsbury** writes: > > Eh? Perhaps we’re working from different definitions here, but I think that “cattle-herders” indicates pastoralism, which is rather different from a HFG economy. > > Oh bloody hell, I misrecalled your statement while I was writing the reply. My apologies.\*\* Fair enough. Apology accepted. End of that discussion. > [@](#): > > In the context of present knowledge, given folks who had knowledge of domestication, interbred two different cattle breeds (Indian and NEAfrica/Middle Eastern) to produce a hybrid --suggesting they were not innocent of a certain animal husbandry-- non-domestication of Zebras should be considered to have been too much of a pain in the ass (and remain so today even given greater resources). Yep. I think that we can sum up the answers to the OP in that way. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2001, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-zebras-never-domesticated/65701/29 "2001-05-18T19:47:31Z")
I just found my citations in re the cattle issue: C. Troy, D. Machugh, et al. “Genetic evidence for Near-Eastern origins of European cattle” _Nature_ 410, 1088 - 1091 (2001) Daniel G. Bradley, David E. MacHugh, et al. “Mitochondrial diversity and the origins of African and European cattle” _PNAS_ 1996 93: 5131-5135. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2001, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-zebras-never-domesticated/65701/30 "2001-05-18T19:59:00Z")
I just found my citations in re the cattle issue: C. Troy, D. Machugh, et al. “Genetic evidence for Near-Eastern origins of European cattle” _Nature_ 410, 1088 - 1091 (2001) Daniel G. Bradley, David E. MacHugh, et al. “Mitochondrial diversity and the origins of African and European cattle” _PNAS_ 1996 93: 5131-5135. ---
**Author:** ![ModernRonin2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c37758/32.png) [@ModernRonin2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ModernRonin2)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2001, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-zebras-never-domesticated/65701/31 "2001-05-19T01:58:47Z")
I noticed in DDG’s most excellent link, that Quagga seemed to be quite easy to domesticate and took to it swimmingly, but are now extinct. (Last female died in 1892 or something.) (hijack!) So it sounds like this would be a good species to ressurect… Does anyone know of any Quagga preserved in a museum or something? And is genetic engineering up to the task of bringing these guys back yet? I mean, I get the impression from some stuff I’ve read lately that we can take genes from one species, and insert them into the egg of another closely related species, and the surrogate mother (probably a plains zebra or something) would give birth easily enough. -Ben ---
**Author:** ![choosybeggar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@choosybeggar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choosybeggar)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2001, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-zebras-never-domesticated/65701/32 "2001-05-19T04:19:25Z")
**DDG** posted: > [@](#): > > …evidently llamas can be trained to drive. and then > [@](#): > > …the reason the Incas never trained llamas to drive… Is this a thread about domestic animals or animals as domestics? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2001, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-zebras-never-domesticated/65701/33 "2001-05-19T04:40:49Z")
A chauffer is not a domestic. If one were to get thr llamas to polish the silver or fold the linens, _that_ would be a domestic. ---
**Author:** ![choosybeggar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@choosybeggar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choosybeggar)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2001, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-zebras-never-domesticated/65701/34 "2001-05-19T04:44:15Z")
Picky, picky. But what if the llama had hives? ---
**Author:** ![coffeecat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coffeecat/32/3405_2.png) [@coffeecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coffeecat)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2001, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-zebras-never-domesticated/65701/35 "2001-05-19T13:47:00Z")
I wonder if anyone’s ever tried domesticating otters? Ursula LeGuin mentioned that in passing in one of her novels, and they do seem like friendly, likable little guys. Of course, you’d need to own your own pool . . . ---
**Author:** ![Autumn\_Wind\_Chick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Autumn\_Wind\_Chick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autumn_Wind_Chick)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2001, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-zebras-never-domesticated/65701/36 "2001-05-19T14:50:46Z")
I agree that if the genetic evidence shows multiple independent domestications of horses, this is evidence that proto-horses were more “domesticable” ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2001, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-zebras-never-domesticated/65701/37 "2001-05-19T15:22:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ModernRonin2 \* > \*\* > I noticed in DDG’s most excellent link, that Quagga seemed > to be quite easy to domesticate and took to it swimmingly, > but are now extinct. (Last female died in 1892 or something.) > > (hijack!) > > So it sounds like this would be a good species to > ressurect… Does anyone know of any Quagga preserved > in a museum or something? And is genetic engineering > up to the task of bringing these guys back yet? I > mean, I get the impression from some stuff I’ve read > lately that we can take genes from one species, > and insert them into the egg of another closely related > species, and the surrogate mother (probably a plains > zebra or something) would give birth easily enough. > -Ben \*\* I seem to recall that a number of years ago (like early to mid-80’s) “Science Digest” had done a piece on this in relation to cloning (and the Quagga) and they’d found that the preserved cells in tanned hides could be inspired to start growing again. Admittedly, this doesn’t mean one could come up with a healthy clone of the animal, but it certainly betters the odds of us being able to do it. ---
**Author:** ![Homer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/df788c/32.png) [@Homer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homer)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2001, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-zebras-never-domesticated/65701/38 "2001-05-19T22:18:46Z")
With the boon of ‘strange’ pets, how long will it be before we consider hamsters, gerbils, mice, squirrels, weasels, raccoons, and so on as ‘domesticated’ animals? I realize the chances of domesticating these entire breeds are unlikely, however the longer we continue to expand, the more room we take from animals such as this, and at some point, domesticated animals may be all the animals left. On another note, I hear that skunks are _very_ friendly and likable, once their stink glands are removed and they become accustomed to their master. How long until the stink glands are bred out and the skunk is just another domestic with a smelly history? 2456: “Oh, PLEASE, Mom, skunks don’t smell! Where’d you get that stupid idea? :rolleyes:” –Tim ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2001, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-zebras-never-domesticated/65701/39 "2001-05-19T23:00:28Z")
Here’s the thing. I don’t thing domesicating an animal is as obvious a step as one might think. Even if you have domestic cows, that doesn’t mean that you would automatically try to domesticate other animals…or that you would succeed if you tried. I’m guessing that nobody in Africa ever thought that zebras would be particularly good riding animals, or that there was such a concept as “riding animal” until they saw horses. And by then horses had been domesticated for thousands of years. Meaning that if you wanted a riding animal it was ten times easier to get yourself a horse than to try to capture, tame, breed, and domesticate zebras. I agree with Diamond’s concept that some animals would be easier to domesticate than others, but I also think that animal husbandry isn’t as obvious a step as it seems. Even if you have llamas, that doesn’t mean you’re going to try to domesticate deer. Deer are “domesticable”, people today raise them on farms. But nobody saw the benefit back then. But once you have the benefit of domesticating a particular kind of animal pointed out by example, it will still remain easier to adopt the already domesticated version, rather than do it yourself. I think we need to remember that people can be very conservative. And also that there were probably many attempts at domestication that COULD have succeeded, but for whatever reason just didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2001, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-zebras-never-domesticated/65701/40 "2001-05-20T00:38:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Collounsbury \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > No trace has been found of wheels in the new World before the coming of Europeans. Why the ingenious Incas and Aztecs failed to make this simple invention no one can tell. The fact that they had no draft animals may be part of the explanation. > > Comptons is wrong here.\*\* Then so is [Cecil Adams.](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_250.html) He, too, attributes it to the lack of draft animals, the llama being mostly unsuitable to drawing wagons. Just as the original Americans never thought to invent the wheel (except for Mexican toys or cult objects), all of you never thought to see what Unca Cecil had to say about it. 😃 What I find really intriguing in Cecil’s column is the possibility that every wheel in existence today can be traced back to a single, nameless Sumerian inventor who lived around 3500 BC. Did you know the wheel was not seen in Britain until 500 BC? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-zebras-never-domesticated/65701.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-zebras-never-domesticated/65701.md?page=3)