# why weren't there for-profit hurricane evacuators during Katrina? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 18, 2009, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-werent-there-for-profit-hurricane-evacuators-during-katrina/521790 "2009-12-18T20:32:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2009, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-werent-there-for-profit-hurricane-evacuators-during-katrina/521790/21 "2009-12-18T22:38:48Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Take a look at a road map of Louisiana sometime. Look real hard for workable evacuation routes. Bear in mind that going East or West is risky, because you don’t know which way the storm is going to turn. Also factor in that everybody East or West of New Orleans is also trying to get out of the area. South is contra-indicated. That leaves North. Do you have any idea how crowded the few existing roads North were? Houston (or maybe Galveston, somewhere in Texas) had a disaster with something like that not too terribly long ago. Traffic was so bad, people were trapped on the highway when the storm hit. > . Same problem with Tidewater VA … Va Beach, Suffolk, Portsmouth, Chesapeak and Newport News. Look at a map. The 5 cities are sprawled around the mouth of the Chesapeake Bay. We have a mongo long bridge, Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel, all 26 miles of it. Then there are bridges across various rivers, tunnels under various rivers. Rt 64 cuts through it as pretty much the only major interstate. i remember evacuating in 85 when Gloria ran up the coast. I got stuck at work until about 1 when my BF of the time told off the owner of my company and walked me out of the office and locked the doors behind me. We drove to his moms up in Dillwyn VA [she lives in a farm right next to the slammer] by heading down 64 towards South Carolina, through Chesapeake until we could swing around and head up towards Charlottesville. The road was packed solid and police had opened up both sides to evacuate upon. ---
**Author:** ![MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2009, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-werent-there-for-profit-hurricane-evacuators-during-katrina/521790/22 "2009-12-18T22:52:39Z")
> [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](#): > > Exactly, and **code\_grey**? > > Fuck you. > > Ask yourself this: if **you** were in possesion of the machinery to evacutate a home during or right after a hurricane, would **you** evacuate a welfare mother with 3 kids and no home (anymore), in the hopes of making your money back? Superfluous Parentheses, in my opinion, someone as lacking in both basic knowledge and any sense of human empathy as the OP is probably not worth responding to. “You ain’t gonna learn what you don’t wanna know” ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2009, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-werent-there-for-profit-hurricane-evacuators-during-katrina/521790/23 "2009-12-18T22:55:12Z")
> [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](#): > > Fuck you. [Moderator Warning] This is _not_ permitted in GQ. If you wish to make a personal attack on another poster, you must take it to the Pit. [/Moderator Warning] ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2009, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-werent-there-for-profit-hurricane-evacuators-during-katrina/521790/24 "2009-12-18T23:01:31Z")
> [@code\_grey](#): > > when it was all over, the (surviving) evacuees got showered with money by the government (as could be expected, btw). Plus, many of them have some sort of source of income in normal times - welfare, drug dealing, odd jobs etc. So yes, you could probably use a collection agency to go track them down and make them make good on the IOU 🙂 > > Further, like I said, you could also get somebody else to give you money for saving the poor and indigent. Americans give lots of money to charity, especially to charities that convincingly get good things done. [NOT Moderating] Speaking for myself, not as a moderator, you’re not going to make many friends here with that kind of attitude. Especially since, with an audience this size, there are almost sure to be people from New Orleans on here. ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2009, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-werent-there-for-profit-hurricane-evacuators-during-katrina/521790/25 "2009-12-18T23:35:04Z")
[quote=“Gary “Wombat” Robson, post:23, topic:521790”] [Moderator Warning] This is _not_ permitted in GQ. If you wish to make a personal attack on another poster, you must take it to the Pit. [/Moderator Warning] [/QUOTE] I merely wanted to express my digust with the poster’s ideas in a concise manner. I will try to hide this digust in a more long-winded but less technically abusive and more confusing way if that’s what the rules stipulate. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2009, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-werent-there-for-profit-hurricane-evacuators-during-katrina/521790/26 "2009-12-19T00:02:01Z")
> [@pan1](#): > > …And the actual emergency services will be exceptionally offended if one of your “for profit” evacuation vehicles gets in the way of official evacuation processes. And woe be ye should one of your paid evacuation vehicles require rescuing… Not to mention there’s nothing stopping the local authorities from simply comandeering all of your vechicles to assist in their evacuation effort. It’s perfectly legal in a crisis. Then what are you going to do? You really want your drivers and hired guns to go resist the police & National Guard? _That_ would cost a shitload of money; both to pay them enought to do that in the first place and the massive amount of money you’re going to neet to spend on lawyers to keep your ass out of jail afterwards. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2009, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-werent-there-for-profit-hurricane-evacuators-during-katrina/521790/27 "2009-12-19T00:06:46Z")
If what’s his name would just try to cross the Howard Franklin bridge during rush hour to or from Tampa, he could have some small idea of the difficulty of moving traffic on a normal day. I see no reason why New Orleans wouldn’t have traffic jams as a matter of course; we’re dealing with a guy who hasn’t a modicum of good sense. Bless his heart. ---
**Author:** ![code\_grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@code\_grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/code_grey)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2009, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-werent-there-for-profit-hurricane-evacuators-during-katrina/521790/28 "2009-12-19T00:36:40Z")
ok, so we have established that: - offering any sort of rescue services for money in disaster zones, especially those having to do with transportation, is very risky due to the threat of lawsuits, commandeering of private property by authorities and other forms of government persecution - limitations of the road system in the vicinity of New Orleans made transportation for evacuation very difficult at the time immediately preceding and during the hurricane Ignorance fought decisively, thanks a lot everybody. ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2009, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-werent-there-for-profit-hurricane-evacuators-during-katrina/521790/29 "2009-12-19T00:39:53Z")
> [@code\_grey](#): > > ok, so we have established that: > > - offering any sort of rescue services for money in disaster zones, especially those having to do with transportation, is very risky due to the threat of lawsuits, commandeering of private property by authorities and other forms of government persecution > > - limitations of the road system in the vicinity of New Orleans made transportation for evacuation very difficult at the time immediately preceding and during the hurricane > > Ignorance fought decisively, thanks a lot everybody. You forgot about it being very hard to make any profit even if either of those situations (but especially situation1) weren’t the case. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2009, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-werent-there-for-profit-hurricane-evacuators-during-katrina/521790/30 "2009-12-19T00:44:25Z")
> [@code\_grey](#): > > and other forms of government persecution… Yeah, it sucks to be a corporation, don’t it? The Man is always breathin down your frickin neck and hasslin ya, when all you want is to be a upstanding citizen, and maybe make a few dollars here and there. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Mangosteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Mangosteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangosteen)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2009, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-werent-there-for-profit-hurricane-evacuators-during-katrina/521790/31 "2009-12-19T02:11:54Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Bush’s people refused to let other people in to help, for profit or otherwise. It was in the news at the time I recall; everything from private citizens to the military wanting to help and being told “No”. Bush and his subordinates were central to the disaster. I would hope you had a cite for this kind of accusation. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2009, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-werent-there-for-profit-hurricane-evacuators-during-katrina/521790/32 "2009-12-19T02:58:05Z")
Some for profits did make money off evacuation during Katrina [http://www.thenation.com/doc/20051010/scahill](http://www.thenation.com/doc/20051010/scahill) > [@](#): > > The men from Blackwater USA arrived in New Orleans right after Katrina hit. The company known for its private security work guarding senior US diplomats in Iraq beat the federal government and most aid organizations to the scene in another devastated Gulf. About 150 heavily armed Blackwater troops dressed in full battle gear spread out into the chaos of New Orleans. Officially, the company boasted of its forces “join[ing] the hurricane relief effort.” But its men on the ground told a different story. > > Some patrolled the streets in SUVs with tinted windows and the Blackwater logo splashed on the back; others sped around the French Quarter in an unmarked car with no license plates. They congregated on the corner of St. James and Bourbon in front of a bar called 711, where Blackwater was establishing a makeshift headquarters. From the balcony above the bar, several Blackwater guys cleared out what had apparently been someone’s apartment. They threw mattresses, clothes, shoes and other household items from the balcony to the street below. They draped an American flag from the balcony’s railing. More than a dozen troops from the 82nd Airborne Division stood in formation on the street watching the action. ---
**Author:** ![code\_grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@code\_grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/code_grey)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2009, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-werent-there-for-profit-hurricane-evacuators-during-katrina/521790/33 "2009-12-19T03:32:43Z")
madmonk28, interesting info, but this sounds simply like a part of the overall government imposed martial law. In some places government did martial law with National Guard and maybe in others with these mercenaries. It’s not clear if they did any evacuation or rescue work. Maybe it was just a nice way for the powers that be to funnel government money to business associates in the private sector 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2009, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-werent-there-for-profit-hurricane-evacuators-during-katrina/521790/34 "2009-12-19T06:16:53Z")
I remember reading that some of the high end hotels hired Blackwater mercenaries to evac their patrons. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2009, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-werent-there-for-profit-hurricane-evacuators-during-katrina/521790/35 "2009-12-19T15:19:57Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Houston (or maybe Galveston, somewhere in Texas) had a disaster with something like that not too terribly long ago. Traffic was so bad, people were trapped on the highway when the storm hit. Don’t assume it has to be like that. It’s partly a function of planning and practice - here in South Carolina, they can get the evacuation routes running all lanes west before you can say “storm surge”, because we didn’t see the hurricane finally coming and go, “hey, you know what? Maybe we should have had a plan for that! Steve, you get right on that!” Of course, evacuation plans here have to contend with the fact that something really bad or unpredictable could have, say, Florida and Georgia getting west here too. (Floyd did that - evacuations all up and down the coast and the nightmare scenario of evacuating Savannah, so we had more than our share of traffic.) We’re not perfect, but you would _never_ have the kind of fuckup they had with Rita (? I think?) here. We do drills. Granted, New Orleans has a much bigger geographical problem - I just wanted to point out that just because evacuations in some places were really bad doesn’t mean they have to be or that it’s necessarily a problem with the landscape. ---
**Author:** ![Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harriet_the_Spry)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2009, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-werent-there-for-profit-hurricane-evacuators-during-katrina/521790/36 "2009-12-19T17:06:22Z")
If some entrepreneur out there sees an opportunity in for-profit hurricane evacuation, I see no reason to discourage it. However, similar to mail delivery, there are probably large parts of the country where it is not going to be profitable. Once you factor in the realities of a for-profit business, like predicting where the market is going to be, staffing the operation, and collections, the profitable market is probably not that big. There may be a market for a Fed Ex or UPS of hurricane evacuation, but that doesn’t mean we don’t need a postal service for those who can’t afford a huge markup over the regular travel cost. Once you start spreading that markup over more time and people, it turns into insurance (if you keep it in the private sector) or taxes (if you turn it over to government), which just really doesn’t make much of a difference, IMHO. The Red Cross is probably the biggest non-profit in this sector, and their model seems to be more focused on going in to help people on site rather than evacuating people. Presumably they find their money goes farther that way than it does in trying to maintain fleets of buses at the ready. ---
**Author:** ![medstar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f07891/32.png) [@medstar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/medstar)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2009, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-werent-there-for-profit-hurricane-evacuators-during-katrina/521790/37 "2009-12-19T20:32:33Z")
What I don’t understand is why the local officials; mayor, governor, etc. didn’t involve local churches in educating their congregants, organizing and co-ordinating busses to move people a few days before. I know I saw a parking lot full of flooded buses that could have been used to move people ---
**Author:** ![WhyWhyWhy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whywhywhy/32/7539_2.png) [@WhyWhyWhy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyWhyWhy)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2009, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-werent-there-for-profit-hurricane-evacuators-during-katrina/521790/38 "2009-12-19T22:22:25Z")
> [@](#): > > Ignorance fought decisively > [@](#): > > I will try to hide this disgust in a more long-winded but less technically abusive and more confusing way if that’s what the rules stipulate. And the Dope advances civilization on multiple fronts once again! (Watch my Fabious hair and SD cape flowing in the wind…in slow motion, of course.) On a more serious note, there has been at least one case of entrepreneurs getting involved in a similar (albeit a far less logistically complex rescue situation). I vaguely remember watching a History Channel (I believe) show in which the northern US was socked by the mother of all snow storms. A bunch of people were trapped in stalled elevated trains. Local individuals with ladders freed those individuals for fifty cents each. I remember thinking to myself (and quite smugly for those that fondly recount "the good old days’), that that crap wouldn’t happen nowadays. Today, local volunteers would have saved the stranded commuters at no cost. So…while I would have preferred to tell said entrepreneurs to FU in a long-winded but less technically abusive and more confusing way, I myself, would have gladly paid the 50 cents, tipped the ladder-master and, assuming I had enough cash, would have paid the way for as many orphans and little old ladies as possible (again, with Fabio-like hair blowing in the white out conditions). Of course, there weren’t as many lawyers back then. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2009, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-werent-there-for-profit-hurricane-evacuators-during-katrina/521790/39 "2009-12-19T22:41:01Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Bush’s people refused to let other people in to help, for profit or otherwise. It was in the news at the time I recall; everything from private citizens to the military wanting to help and being told “No”. Bush and his subordinates were central to the disaster. I don’t think that’s accurate. I’m pretty sure that Bush wanted to send in the National Guard from other states to help out and it was the governor of Louisiana that initially balked. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2009, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-werent-there-for-profit-hurricane-evacuators-during-katrina/521790/40 "2009-12-19T23:12:19Z")
> [@medstar](#): > > I know I saw a parking lot full of flooded buses that could have been used to move people Much was made about those buses, but using them wasn’t so simple. Somebody has to drive them, and I think it takes a commercial license to do that. You can’t really order a civilian school bus driver to abandon his home/family to go save other people. Somebody has to pay for the gas. And you can’t just pack people onto buses. They have to have somewhere to go. The people on them have to eat, shit, sleep, etc. Many of them can’t afford to pay for food/lodging for any extended period of time even if there was somewhere for them to go. Plus you still have the road situation detailed above. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-werent-there-for-profit-hurricane-evacuators-during-katrina/521790.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-werent-there-for-profit-hurricane-evacuators-during-katrina/521790.md?page=3)