# Why "West" needs to be "Best" for the whole world? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 26, 2003, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-west-needs-to-be-best-for-the-whole-world/215455 "2003-11-26T21:06:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2003, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-west-needs-to-be-best-for-the-whole-world/215455/21 "2003-11-26T22:45:29Z")
Overlooked you “money” comment. I said: Try to pay them less and see what happens. I can have everyone who wants money to come to my place and work for me on condition I pay them more then everybody else, no? It has nothing to do with me, my country, my culture. It has to do with the capitalist buying the non capitalist. That has no other value then the value of money. Or has it. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![overlyverbose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9dc877/32.png) [@overlyverbose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/overlyverbose)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2003, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-west-needs-to-be-best-for-the-whole-world/215455/22 "2003-11-26T22:45:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Aldebaran \* > \*\*Forgot: > > Sorry but no, not “everyone want to live like Americans”. > > It would pure horror to me and to everyone I know if we would be forced to go live there, let be to live “like Americans”. > And I’m sorry but I have to add: it would be completely impossible for me to be “like an American” for several reasons. > Salaam. A \*\* This sort of viewpoint really ticks me off. I don’t define myself by my country (America). I do not define my lifestyle as “American.” So I have no idea what you are talking about when you say “live like Americans.” Are you talking about living in houses and apartments, like most people in general, or are you talking about things you see on TV? Or are you basing all of your assumptions about America on one asshole that you happened to meet while you were here? Why are you defining Americans by where they live? This country is a large melting pot of all kinds of different cultures - to assume that we have one culture here would be inaccurate. Also, while my political leaders are extremely vociferous about their views on America vs. everyone else, I don’t happen to share all of them. Additionally, I believe it is safe to say that all Americans do not assume that everyone wants to live in America. Nor do I think it is fair to assume that all American’s want everyone to live like we do here. Different areas have different resources and different cultures, and people should be allowed to live according to their own customs. To Ryan you said “How about educating yourself on the ME instead of going on with your illusion that they are all “oil nations” and “oil sheiks”?” Well, how about educating yourself about Westerners before you claim that we all want others to live like us? Also, you said that you undergo culture shock every time you travel from Europe to the US, and that “I think there aren’t that many people in the US who can actually understand this.” Frankly, I think you’re wrong. I’ve travelled all over the globe, and have lived in a variety of different countries. During my travels, I have learned that people, while they have different customs everywhere, are still people, and that if you treat them with respect and civility, they will treat you with the same respect and civility. Yes, there are assholes everywhere. And there are quite a few of them in America, but there are just as many in Europe, the Middle East, the East, South America, etc. You shouldn’t judge people based upon geography. Not only is it misleading and inaccurate, but doing so assumes that where you come from is better, which makes you just as bad as you think we are. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2003, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-west-needs-to-be-best-for-the-whole-world/215455/23 "2003-11-26T22:50:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Aldebaran \* > \*\*Nothing slipped my mind, but there is a general “West” and what is percieved as its ideals and culture in general. > Ne need to point out to me the culture shock I undergo when I travel from Europe to for example the US. And I think there aren’t that many people in the US who can actually understand this. > There is also no need to point out the culture shock I undergo everytime I travel from my country to for example Europe and vice versa. I’m a child of two cultures from which one is the Western culture. I’m even what people in the West would easily call capitalist. Which is a very wrong labelling since it is not what my goal in life was and is. > > \ > > And that is actually a point of the debate: > Why are so many “Westerners” so convinced that what they see as the ideal forcibly needs to be the ideal for the non Western world. And why are they not capable to understand that not everybody wants to be like they are. > > And for the US’ers here an additional question: Why are you so convinced that “everybody” wants to “live in the USA”. > I don’t. And nobody I know would want to move overthere.We are not unique cases. > Salaam. A \*\* You have a very prejudiced view of Americans, and frankly it’s somewhat offensive. What makes you think that we necessarily hold any of these opinions? I don’t. I like my country, despite its flaws, but I’m not of the opinion that every other country in the world is green with envy over the United States, that everyone fervently wishes they lived here, or that my values need to be crammed down the rest of the world’s throat. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2003, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-west-needs-to-be-best-for-the-whole-world/215455/24 "2003-11-26T22:51:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Aldebaran \* > \*\*Overlooked you “money” comment. > > I said: Try to pay them less and see what happens. > > I can have everyone who wants money to come to my place and work for me on condition I pay them more then everybody else, no? > > It has nothing to do with me, my country, my culture. > It has to do with the capitalist buying the non capitalist. > That has no other value then the value of money. Or has it. > > Salaam. A \*\* Well the “Western” system seems to enable that type of paying scheme. I suppose if the opportunity to get paid 80k in Angola for the Angolo Tel came up people might still opt for Ottawa, Boston, Dallas, London, etc. And I did read your OP, the echo was staggering. Could you at least help poor old me and define this “West” you’re talking about. Is it just America? Would it include Canada or perhaps France or Germany? ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2003, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-west-needs-to-be-best-for-the-whole-world/215455/25 "2003-11-26T22:57:28Z")
overlyverbose I think you should read the former posts to see that this “living like Americans” is not something that comes from me. But from someone who claimed that everybody want to “live like Americans”. On which I replied. And no, I’m not wrong in my perception that not many US’ers can understand that the US is so very different from Europe. > [@](#): > > You shouldn’t judge people based upon geography. Not only is it misleading and inaccurate, but doing so assumes that where you come from is better, which makes you just as bad as you think we are. I don’t know what you mean by this. I don’t touch this in my OP. I ask a few questions. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![\_possum\_stalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/_/b77776/32.png) [@\_possum\_stalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/_possum_stalker)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2003, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-west-needs-to-be-best-for-the-whole-world/215455/26 "2003-11-26T23:00:52Z")
**Alde** , all cultures are guilty of ethnocentrism, not just “Western” ones. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2003, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-west-needs-to-be-best-for-the-whole-world/215455/27 "2003-11-26T23:03:54Z")
Ah but apparently the “West” insists on its belief system > [@](#): > > 1. be enforced on the rest of the globe ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2003, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-west-needs-to-be-best-for-the-whole-world/215455/28 "2003-11-26T23:09:07Z")
Grey, Like many others you think that all the prosperity of the so called “developped nations” is only due to the people living there. Locate the USA or any of your examples in the middle of a desert for a few years without a drop of rain. That would already cause a panic never seen. I don’t even need to go over all the rest of the external factors that decide about the living standard in certain nations. Try for example to imagine that you have to travel every day 7 hours for a bucket of water because where you live there simply is no water, even when you drill for it until you reach the other side of the earth. How many hours are left for all the rest of your occupations. And yes, “it” includes Canada and whatever you like that is commonly known as “West” in the meaning of having European influence and roots when established in the current form. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2003, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-west-needs-to-be-best-for-the-whole-world/215455/29 "2003-11-26T23:11:28Z")
Grey, where do I mention “belief system”? I think you must be sleepy today. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2003, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-west-needs-to-be-best-for-the-whole-world/215455/30 "2003-11-26T23:16:18Z")
possum, Yes, but not all cultures claim that theirs has to be the best for the world. The most recent example of a Western nation forcing itself including its view on “how to become like us” on an other nation and people is Iraq. It wont work like they dream it would since Iraqis are not US’ers… But that is an other story for an other topic. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2003, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-west-needs-to-be-best-for-the-whole-world/215455/31 "2003-11-26T23:18:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by overlyverbose \* > \*\* > > Additionally, I believe it is safe to say that all Americans do not assume that everyone wants to live in America. Nor do I think it is fair to assume that all American’s want everyone to live like we do here. Different areas have different resources and different cultures, and people should be allowed to live according to their own customs. > > To Ryan you said “How about educating yourself on the ME instead of going on with your illusion that they are all “oil nations” and “oil sheiks”?” Well, how about educating yourself about Westerners before you claim that we all want others to live like us? > > Frankly, I think you’re wrong. I’ve travelled all over the globe, and have lived in a variety of different countries. During my travels, I have learned that people, while they have different customs everywhere, are still people, and that if you treat them with respect and civility, they will treat you with the same respect and civility. Yes, there are assholes everywhere. > > You shouldn’t judge people based upon geography. Not only is it misleading and inaccurate, but doing so assumes that where you come blah blah blah blah blah \*\* Alderbaran, you’re a lousy predujice. As for the Oil, erm, would you remember that the Middle east is sitting pretty on alot of resources? But you have elected leaders and supported dictators who are lousy at putting this resource (Oil to develop their nation) to good use. Ahhh yes but of course, it is the Wests fault of taking advantage of an opportunity. Alderbaran I keep telling you, stop wasting our time here, if the Wests so bad, then act and stop bitching. ---
**Author:** ![overlyverbose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9dc877/32.png) [@overlyverbose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/overlyverbose)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2003, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-west-needs-to-be-best-for-the-whole-world/215455/32 "2003-11-26T23:20:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Aldebaran \* > \*\*overlyverbose > > And no, I’m not wrong in my perception that not many US’ers can understand that the US is so very different from Europe. > > \*\* Aldebaran, while I do appreciate the fact that many US’ers haven’t had the same opportunities to travel that I have (and that you have had as well), I still think you’re wrong in saying that Americans don’t understand the difference between living in the US versus living in Europe. However, would you please clarify the above? To me it seems as though you are making the assumption that because Americans live in America, they don’t understand living in Europe. To me, that is basing your judgement of people upon where they come from, which is what you were just denying. If I’ve got it wrong, please don’t hesitate to correct me. I’m serious - if I’ve misunderstood you, tell me (not that I don’t think you would). 🙂 One thing I will say is that, while you seem very educated, and have obviously travelled extensively, I’m somewhat surprised that, after your travels, you have such malignant feelings toward the US and the West in general. My experiences have always been wonderful anywhere I’ve travelled. They’ve been occaisionally smudged by an unkind comment, or men thinking I’m easy, even though I’ll soon be married, just because I’m an American woman. Every nation, as you have illustrated with your post, has its stereotypes about other countries. And in some cases, they’re based on fact. Which is unfortunate, but true. So, to some extent, you could say that America is nosey, pushy country seeking to impose our will on everybody else; however, in that same vein, you could say that the Middle East is a region of warring, rich despots who keep everyone else in their area desperately impoverished by their blatant disregard for humanity. But that wouldn’t be true of every place in the Middle East, or even most places there, now, would it? As far as I am aware, not every country in that region is ruled by asshole oil sheiks, and not every country there treats people inhumanely. America is the same way - yes, our leaders are louder than we are, and they are doing some shitty things to other countries. But if you’ve read the statistics lately, I think you would see that Bush and his policies are rapidly falling out of favor with the American people. Not everyone wants to impose the West upon Iraq and other Middle Eastern countries. I’m surprised you don’t have a fuller picture of the US if you have travelled here so often. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2003, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-west-needs-to-be-best-for-the-whole-world/215455/33 "2003-11-26T23:20:29Z")
Since the “West” had yet to be defined well, i figured its “belief system” would cover the term I was looking for. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2003, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-west-needs-to-be-best-for-the-whole-world/215455/34 "2003-11-26T23:22:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Aldebaran \* > \*\*Grey, > > Like many others you think that all the prosperity of the so called “developped nations” is only due to the people living there. > Locate the USA or any of your examples in the middle of a desert for a few years without a drop of rain. That would already cause a panic never seen. I don’t even need to go over all the rest of the external factors that decide about the living standard in certain nations. > Try for example to imagine that you have to travel every day 7 hours for a bucket of water because where you live there simply is no water, even when you drill for it until you reach the other side of the earth. How many hours are left for all the rest of your occupations. > > And yes, “it” includes Canada and whatever you like that is commonly known as “West” in the meaning of having European influence and roots when established in the current form. > Salaam. A \*\* He means anything, White Christian, possibly male and Blonde too. Pathetic. ---
**Author:** ![overlyverbose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9dc877/32.png) [@overlyverbose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/overlyverbose)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2003, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-west-needs-to-be-best-for-the-whole-world/215455/35 "2003-11-26T23:22:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ryan\_Liam \* > \*\*You shouldn’t judge people based upon geography. Not only is it misleading and inaccurate, but doing so assumes that where you come blah blah blah blah blah \*\* Guess how I decided on my username. C’mon, guess! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2003, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-west-needs-to-be-best-for-the-whole-world/215455/36 "2003-11-26T23:25:09Z")
Hahaha I got the idea from Bruce Almighty, Alderbaran reminds me of that guy whose the news presenter being forced to say stupid things on air by Bruce. ---
**Author:** ![overlyverbose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9dc877/32.png) [@overlyverbose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/overlyverbose)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2003, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-west-needs-to-be-best-for-the-whole-world/215455/37 "2003-11-26T23:26:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ryan\_Liam \* > \*\*Hahaha I got the idea from Bruce Almighty, Alderbaran reminds me of that guy whose the news presenter being forced to say stupid things on air by Bruce. \*\* That was definitely one of the best parts. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2003, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-west-needs-to-be-best-for-the-whole-world/215455/38 "2003-11-26T23:29:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Aldebaran \* > \*\*Like many others you think that all the prosperity of the so called “developped nations” is only due to the people living there. > Locate the USA or any of your examples in the middle of a desert for a few years without a drop of rain. That would already cause a panic never seen. I don’t even need to go over all the rest of the external factors that decide about the living standard in certain nations. > Try for example to imagine that you have to travel every day 7 hours for a bucket of water because where you live there simply is no water, even when you drill for it until you reach the other side of the earth. How many hours are left for all the rest of your occupations. > > And yes, “it” includes Canada and whatever you like that is commonly known as “West” in the meaning of having European influence and roots when established in the current form.\*\* Ah so now Japan and South Korea count. Good. Seeing how they are resource poor and yet manage to be affluent, democratic and by your blessing “Western”. Besides I said > [@](#): > > Well the “Western” system seems to enable that type of paying scheme. The system of personal freedoms, capitalism and rule of law allow for the people to acquire affluence. That seems a far cry from > [@](#): > > Like many others you think that all the prosperity of the so called “developped nations” is only due to the people living there . ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2003, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-west-needs-to-be-best-for-the-whole-world/215455/39 "2003-11-26T23:31:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Aldebaran \* > **And no, I’m not wrong in my perception that not many US’ers can understand that the US is so very different from Europe.** Saying something doesn’t make it so. Do you have something to back up this claim? > [@](#): > > _orignally posted by overlyverbose_ > **You shouldn’t judge people based upon geography. Not only is it misleading and inaccurate, but doing so assumes that where you come from is better, which makes you just as bad as you think we are.** > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Aldebaran \* > \*\*I don’t know what you mean by this. I don’t touch this in my OP. I ask a few questions. \*\* You know exactly what she means by this, or should. The questions in your OP are based on a offensive view of the “arrogance and ignorance of the west”, particularly the American people. Presumably this speaks to your relative humility and wisdom. ---
**Author:** ![\_possum\_stalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/_/b77776/32.png) [@\_possum\_stalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/_possum_stalker)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2003, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-west-needs-to-be-best-for-the-whole-world/215455/40 "2003-11-26T23:37:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ryan\_Liam \* > \*\*Alderbaran I keep telling you, stop wasting our time here, if the Wests so bad, then act and stop bitching. \*\* :eek: I think it’s better he brings his misconceptions here than act on them. C’mon, fightin’ ignorance and all that… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-west-needs-to-be-best-for-the-whole-world/215455.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-west-needs-to-be-best-for-the-whole-world/215455.md?page=3)