# Why "West" needs to be "Best" for the whole world? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 26, 2003, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-west-needs-to-be-best-for-the-whole-world/215455 "2003-11-26T21:06:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2003, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-west-needs-to-be-best-for-the-whole-world/215455/81 "2003-11-29T14:08:16Z")
> [@](#): > > **DaPearl** Islam originally got adherants becausse Mohamed was successful militarily, thus other arabs joined, not out of any compassion for God, but just to jump on the bandwagon… I believe you must have the Prophet Mohammed confused with someone else. He was not a military man, but a business man who headed camel caravans. And the rest of your information about Islam and Islamics is rubbish also. ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2003, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-west-needs-to-be-best-for-the-whole-world/215455/82 "2003-11-29T14:21:12Z")
There are a lot of posts made while I didn’t came “on board”. First of all: I shall ignore the ones I can’t take serious because of the disrespecful position the posters take towards me. And yes that includes you once again XT. Although you made a good post that I would like to answer, you joined once again the “Let’s Hate Aldebaran Fan Club” afterwords. (It is obvious that you are very easy to be used and exploited and that is what makes me smile). So sorry, I don’t waste my time answering “to make you laugh”. Note - with good intention - to the members of the Let’s Hate Aldebaran Fanclub : Go watch some Tom and Jerry and start a mailing list for commenting on my posts among yourselves. You can misquote, misinterprete, add, twist and turn and laugh until you faint. Nothing disruptive about that. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2003, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-west-needs-to-be-best-for-the-whole-world/215455/83 "2003-11-29T15:21:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by London\_Calling \* > I agree with the general thrust but I think you could have identified the issues far more clearly (I don’t even know if English is your first language). Yes I know that I’m unable to identify my intentions clearly. That is because English is not even one of my languages = I never studied this language. I said that already several times. I explained that this - and adding to it my dyslexia that palys a great role whenever I use a language written in Latin script - prevents me of expressing myself as clear as I can do in a language I do master. But as you can witness among the Fanclub members, they like to exploit the inaccuracies in my posts who are caused by these handicaps. Which is in fact amusing… Exposing the reasons why they even bother to read my posts since they claim not to be interested in what I write. > [@](#): > > IMHO, the driving force behind the west’s imposition of its values on eastern culture(s) is capitalism; capitalism is the religion, the great provider, the vehicle for everything that’s _apparently_ good and worth having in our societies Yes, that is also my opinion. > [@](#): > > But capitalism is also voracious; a capitalism-free market has to be absorbed because it’s an opportunity; capitalism is like the ‘Borg’ in Star Trek, it will subsume, absorb, use, exploit because that’s what it ‘s designed to do. That’s why it tries to impose on eastern culture and society; it sees the equivalent of a vacuum. I completely agree. It is what I intend to say with the OP. > [@](#): > > that’s also why the perception of it is so different in the east; you haven’t been absorbed, haven’t spent your entire lives being indoctrinated. Indeed, haven’t seen the benefits capitalism can bring. That is partly true. It is forced and indoctrinated by the West on other societies in many different ways. Sometimes because of the need to defend against the Western capitalism which was the driving force of the Western expantionalism and caused a long history of wars and Western colonisation. Thus non-Western societies were forced to adapt and introduce Western tactics of all kind. This includes for example the failed attempts of MENA nations to set up economies and governments “Western style”. I don’t say it can’t work. But upto now it doesn’t because of the unresolved and continued clash between the imported and the original culture (and take this word as broad as you can imagine). In my part of the world this is one of the causes of the birth and development of what many call " Islamism" or/ and “Islamic fundamentalism” which is one of the results of the (wrong) perception “Islam is the solution”. > [@](#): > > It’s mixed bag in my view but a doctrinaire view of the west is no better than its eastern equivalent. > > Also, it’s sometimes difficult to see the joins between western capitalism, western religion (that’s religion beyond capitalsim itself) and western-style democracy – people can confuse those and defend one when they actually mean another. There are some broad similarities between the way this “West” imposes itself on societies and the way the Arab language and culture became prelavent in the Islamic Empires. One of the best examples is the recent rise of the importance and use of the English language. This is imposed - and mostly by the USA - on other societies (including Europe) and it shall hold its dominance for a long time to come. > [@](#): > > That’s why terminology like “west is best” isn’t accurate enough. I know that. I explained why that is. But those members who actually want to debate my OP point out this inaccuracy by asking questions about it and writing comments. Like you did. This much appreciated courtesy makes it a lot easier for me to elaborate on the intentions I have with this topic (and with other posts I make). I’ve read a lot of the posts you made on this board and found myself in line with most of your views and the position you take. One of the obvious differences in the way several people respond is that I seem to be percieved as an intruder (and I’m sure that I’m perceived as provocative in my writing style). While you are skilled in your language and thus can express yourself accurately and be Member of The Club :). Maybe I should follow some crush course “English Writing On Message Boards”… Somehow I think it wouldn’t help me a bit . I read English very well (and I have an online dictionary of course) but writing it myself shall always remain a problem. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2003, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-west-needs-to-be-best-for-the-whole-world/215455/84 "2003-11-29T15:47:03Z")
Just for information of those who continue to write that I invented this sentence. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shodan \* > Everyone wants to live like Americans. This isn’t something we are forcing on them. And no, not “everyone” wants “to live like A m e r i c a n s” And no, I am not going to change my use of the easy US’ers instaed of A m e r i c a n s. And no, that is not the term used in the ME. That is what I use because A m e r i c a n s and A m e r i c a and a lot of other words I see as clear as you see them when written from back to forward and mixed up at will. Yes, it is surprizing every time again but to avoid your comments on me writing a m e r i c a n s and mix all those letters up and then be accused of “insulting” the a m e r i c a n s on board… Let’s keep it to US’ers, shall we. Thank you. Now I do know and recognize and admit that not all US’ers are deprived of showing courtesy. As is done by several of the members posting on this topic and even using my way of writing “US’ers”. This repaeted “a m e r i c a n s” by the way costed me about one minute to write, read, re-read… Yes I know I could use Word and spelling control. But first of all I have a limited time to dedicate to this website and next it is a bit hard to use that when you are not able to recognize your own grammar and spelling mistakes even if you look for them. Which very well can be the case depending the day and even the hour I write and the circumstances. If somebody has knwledge of the instant solutions for dislexia, you are most welcome to let me know. I give you a fortune for sharing that secret. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2003, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-west-needs-to-be-best-for-the-whole-world/215455/85 "2003-11-29T15:58:19Z")
Sam Stone, I’m not going to debate Israel here and the theft of water by them or how they get it from for example Turkey and how long the plans for a water pipeline coming from Iraq is already designed. However, you could make some effort to get a bit realistic. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2003, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-west-needs-to-be-best-for-the-whole-world/215455/86 "2003-11-29T16:01:16Z")
Alde, go to your previous post, copy the word Americans, and paste it into your new posts as needed. Problem solved! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2003, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-west-needs-to-be-best-for-the-whole-world/215455/87 "2003-11-29T16:21:32Z")
I apologise to those members who didn’t get reply today. It shall take probably a few more days. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2003, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-west-needs-to-be-best-for-the-whole-world/215455/88 "2003-11-29T16:43:09Z")
From Aldebaran > [@](#): > > And yes that includes you once again XT. Although you made a good post that I would like to answer, you joined once again the “Let’s Hate Aldebaran Fan Club” afterwords. (It is obvious that you are very easy to be used and exploited and that is what makes me smile). Imagine my surprise. 🙂 Instead of actually sitting down and reading and responding to serious question, you talk about your dyslexia, your problems with English, and your desire to continue to use insults reguardless (i.e. the use of US’ers). You are definitely running true to form, if a bit disappointing. How about if you actually discuss things related TO your OP in reference to things brought up later in the thread by other posters. I’m not a member of the ‘lets hate Alderbaran Fan Club’ btw…though I can certainly see why the club is so full of members. But then, I’m starting to think you deliberately provoke people. Ah well, rant on… From Aldebaran > [@](#): > > And no, not “everyone” wants “to live like A m e r i c a n s” You won’t respond to me, but I’m going to pretend like you will. 🙂 No one is saying that “everyone” wants to “live like Americans” that I’m aware of. The point is, the MAJORITY of people do. You don’t agree? Fine, prove it then. Show a large percentage of people from other countries that don’t want to “live like American”, that DON’T watch ‘Western’ style movies, wear ‘Western’ style clothes, DON’T want to go to ‘Western’ style schools, WON’T eat ‘Western’ style food, etc etc. From Aldebaran > [@](#): > > And no, I am not going to change my use of the easy US’ers instaed of A m e r i c a n s. > > And no, that is not the term used in the ME. > That is what I use because > A m e r i c a n s > and > A m e r i c a > and a lot of other words I see as clear as you see them when written from back to forward and mixed up at will. > > Yes, it is surprizing every time again but to avoid your comments on me writing > a m e r i c a n s > and mix all those letters up and then be accused of “insulting” the > a m e r i c a n s > on board… > Let’s keep it to US’ers, shall we. > Thank you. > Now I do know and recognize and admit that not all US’ers are deprived of showing courtesy. > As is done by several of the members posting on this topic and even using my way of writing “US’ers”. > > This repaeted “a m e r i c a n s” by the way costed me about one minute to write, read, re-read… > Yes I know I could use Word and spelling control. But first of all I have a limited time to dedicate to this website and next it is a bit hard to use that when you are not able to recognize your own grammar and spelling mistakes even if you look for them. Which very well can be the case depending the day and even the hour I write and the circumstances. > > If somebody has knwledge of the instant solutions for dislexia, you are most welcome to let me know. I give you a fortune for sharing that secret. Blah blah blah. Excuses excuses. You are justifying your use of a term that has been pointed out to you as offensive. There for, your continued us of such is to provoke. Just come out and say it. Do you think you are the ONLY person on this board that has dyslexia (I do) and/or that English is not their first language (Spanish is my native language). Nice try though. 🙂 -XT ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2003, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-west-needs-to-be-best-for-the-whole-world/215455/89 "2003-11-29T16:44:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Aldebaran \* > Note - with good intention - to the members of the Let’s Hate Aldebaran Fanclub : With good intention? Ooooh, how ironic. There’s no point claiming you are the victim of organized aggression (i.e. an anti-you club) because this _in no way whatsoever_ proves your argument. I offer the following simplified example: A: All dogs are green. B: Of course not, that’s silly. A: You’re just saying that to be mean to me! Whether B was being mean or not is irrelevant. The idea _is_ silly. ---
**Author:** ![spogga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ab097/32.png) [@spogga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spogga)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2003, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-west-needs-to-be-best-for-the-whole-world/215455/90 "2003-11-29T17:52:04Z")
ALDE aka MU’ser answer me this, tell me how you are able to type out with no apparent difficulty longer and more difficult words than America (ie: exploited,intentions, indoctrinated) As I said previously I don’t for one minute believe you are dyslexic, but I firmly believe you are a person who for some irrational reason hates The United States of America and for that matter the whole of the Western world. I am a member of the" I Thoroughly Detest Alde the MU’ser Club" ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2003, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-west-needs-to-be-best-for-the-whole-world/215455/91 "2003-11-29T18:13:52Z")
I’m a member of the “I’m amazed & thouroughly amused at - Alde the megalomanic MU’ser - club” hehehehehe at his studies, travels and dyslexia. Pull the other one, Alde. Thanks for the laughs, though. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2003, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-west-needs-to-be-best-for-the-whole-world/215455/92 "2003-11-29T18:46:01Z")
**Aldebaran:** Are you seriously suggesting that the only reason Israel is prosperous is because it’s _stealing_ resources from the Arab world? ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2003, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-west-needs-to-be-best-for-the-whole-world/215455/93 "2003-11-29T19:07:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Aldebaran \* > \*\*Let’s keep it to US’ers, shall we. > Thank you. > \*\* No, let’s not. Type it once, then cut and paste as needed. Simple. Salami. M ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2003, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-west-needs-to-be-best-for-the-whole-world/215455/94 "2003-11-29T19:53:00Z")
Here’s another take on why West is Best for the rest of the world: When something goes wrong in your country who gets blamed? My impression has always been that Middle Eastern countries blame: first, the Jews since they control the world\*; second, the Americans because they control the money and the Jews rule them by proxy, and lastly, other Middle Easter countries around them. Example: “We don’t have water.” Reason: “Israel takes it and pipes it from Turkey using American funding and support.” The West IS best because when the economy goes bad, everyone and their brother blames the President. Terrorist strike, blame the President. The weather is bad for crops, blame the President. Even when gas prices go up we blame gas taxes imposed by the government. My conclusion is that Western countries blame themselves first for all problems faced. And once you do that, you are able to look at similar problems of other countries and blame THEIR dictators for internal problems. This type of criticism was not allowed in Iraq, China, or Cuba for example. Another example is how often you see anti-US and anti-Israel protests in Middle Eastern countries. But have they ever been _allowed_ to protest against their current administration? **Aldebaran** when you see “West is Best for you” statements, its a result of Westerners first being critical of their own governments and THEN being critical of yours, perhaps you could learn from it. \*Taken from Mahathir’s comment. ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2003, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-west-needs-to-be-best-for-the-whole-world/215455/95 "2003-11-29T20:45:28Z")
Um…starting a provocative thread like this and then revisiting it so rarely, saying it will take several days to reply to people, doesn’t really seems kosher (snerk) to me. If **Alde** is not sufficiently interested to keep track of and contribute to his thread, neither will I. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2003, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-west-needs-to-be-best-for-the-whole-world/215455/96 "2003-11-29T23:06:58Z")
So basically, as far as I can tell, the “West” consists of democratic principles in political and market organization, the idea that people can affect their world as they see fit, without overt oppression, and with a means to define, undo, and expose abuse of authority. The irony isn’t that the “West” is imposing this idea on Aldebaran and his ilk (should he represent anyone), but that he feels open discourse is the means to the end of eliminating that pesky open discourse. “Get out, democracy! We don’t want you! And we want you to listen to us! We want to organize society our way, and that’s not what democracy means!” Yep. Is this like finally getting your chance to voice your concerns to a group, and opening with, “You guys don’t listen”? ---
**Author:** ![Jojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecd19e/32.png) [@Jojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jojo)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-west-needs-to-be-best-for-the-whole-world/215455/97 "2003-11-30T00:03:48Z")
Dyslexia affects different people in different ways. I can see that the word “american” might be difficult for someone with dyslexia. Some dyslexics have problems with words that contain alternate vowels and consonants. Think about how it’s spelt: A M E R I C A N vowel consonant vowel consonant vowel consonant vowel consonant I can understand a dyslexic having problems with “american” but being ok with words like “exploited, intentions, indoctrinated”. Dyslexia is weird like that. It’s the interplay of vowels and consonants. And who can be bothered cutting and pasting every time they want to use the word “american”? I think people should get off Aldebaran’s back about his dyslexia. I think he does have dyslexia because a lot of the spelling errors he makes look like dyslexic errors to me rather than language errors eg getting all the right letters in a word but putting them in the wrong order sometimes. That said, I would also like Aldebaran to suggest a better system of government than democracy. Also capitalism isn’t a purely western phenomenon - in places like India or Pakistan or North Africa they have forms of raw capitalism that puts the west to shame eg once you agree to buy something at a particular price you are HONOUR-BOUND to then purchase that object. You can’t back out of the sale once you’ve agreed to buy it. Well, you can but you will be considered to have broken an unspoken agreement and will be thought less of. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-west-needs-to-be-best-for-the-whole-world/215455/98 "2003-11-30T00:28:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jojo \* > \*\*Dyslexia affects different people in different ways. I can see that the word “american” might be difficult for someone with dyslexia. Some dyslexics have problems with words that contain alternate vowels and consonants. > > Think about how it’s spelt: > > A M E R I C A N > > vowel consonant vowel consonant vowel consonant vowel consonant > > I can understand a dyslexic having problems with “american” but being ok with words like “exploited, intentions, indoctrinated”. Dyslexia is weird like that. It’s the interplay of vowels and consonants.\*\* USer = vowel consonant vowel consonant, and he doesn’t have a problem with that. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-west-needs-to-be-best-for-the-whole-world/215455/99 "2003-11-30T01:54:52Z")
I here by declare my self El Tigro Numero Uno of the “Aldebaran is a beacon of light and wisdom is a darkening world” Please line up behind. We hand out medals daily and have a cool tree house. Besides **Aldebaran** , some of the best responses are from people you’re ignoring. And that aside I’d like an answer to mine, if nothing else. ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-west-needs-to-be-best-for-the-whole-world/215455/100 "2003-11-30T06:37:56Z")
Jojo > [@](#): > > And who can be bothered cutting and pasting every time they want to use the word “american”? Anyone with respect for another culture? Yes, **Aldebaran** Tell us why ‘Middle East is a Feast’, please. SLMAAA \* [Oops, my dyslexia gets the vowels/consonants mixed up]\* [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-west-needs-to-be-best-for-the-whole-world/215455.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-west-needs-to-be-best-for-the-whole-world/215455.md?page=6)