# Why/what is the relationship between Israel and the US? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 17, 2008, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-what-is-the-relationship-between-israel-and-the-us/473201 "2008-11-17T23:19:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2008, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-what-is-the-relationship-between-israel-and-the-us/473201/1 "2008-11-17T23:19:27Z")
European here, with little knowledge of either Israeli or US history, so forgive my ignorance. From what I’ve gathered from the reporting on the recent US elections, it seems that it’s very important for a US presidential candidate to (appear to) be supportive of Israel, to the point that both McCain and Obama made a visit there (some months ago) to bolster support, or whatever, they both deemed it a good strategy to go there in the first place. It also seems to me that in general, the US has a quite pro- (or less critical of) Israel view of the problems in the region compared to the country I’m living in (the Netherlands). My question is this: why? I can understand that the US has a tremendous amount of influence in the region and you guys have to be careful about the kind of message you send, and also, I can see that Israel doesn’t have many friends over there and probably needs some kind of protection just to stay viable. On the other hand, some of the military actions by Israel over the last couple of decades seem to me to be pretty severe and I’m not sure why anyone would be eager to support them. I’d like this thread to stay on topic of the US - Israel relations only. If you want to debate related issues, please just start a new thread and link it. Cheers. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2008, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-what-is-the-relationship-between-israel-and-the-us/473201/2 "2008-11-17T23:28:29Z")
It’s pretty simple. The U.S. has more Jews who vote and make campaign contributions than Arabs. Although this is GQ I will have to mark that as my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2008, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-what-is-the-relationship-between-israel-and-the-us/473201/3 "2008-11-17T23:34:54Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > It’s pretty simple. The U.S. has more Jews who vote and make campaign contributions than Arabs. Although this is GQ I will have to mark that as my opinion. I’ve considered that, but it seems to me that there just aren’t enough Jews in the US to make a real difference if they were the only ones who cared. Unless they all live in California? ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Dave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/46a35a/32.png) [@Great\_Dave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Dave)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-what-is-the-relationship-between-israel-and-the-us/473201/4 "2008-11-18T00:12:53Z")
While the Jewish lobby is influential in states such as New York and Florida, the evangelical belief that Israel needs to exist before Christ can return should not be understated. Off to do a little googling. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-what-is-the-relationship-between-israel-and-the-us/473201/5 "2008-11-18T00:17:20Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > It’s pretty simple. The U.S. has more Jews who vote and make campaign contributions than Arabs. Although this is GQ I will have to mark that as my opinion. It must be comforting to have such a simple view of the world. * * * Firstly, the US Muslim population is on par with, or exceeds the Jewish population: [http://www.jewishexponent.com/article/12673](http://www.jewishexponent.com/article/12673) Secondly, while there is a powerful Jewish lobby, there are also several Arab lobbying groups:[Arab lobby in the United States - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_lobby_in_the_United_States) Thirdly, the US has historically supported Israel, because Egypt and other Arab states were clients of the USSR, and the US thought it was in their strategic interests to have an ally in the region. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Dave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/46a35a/32.png) [@Great\_Dave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Dave)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-what-is-the-relationship-between-israel-and-the-us/473201/6 "2008-11-18T00:17:51Z")
> **[On the Road to Armageddon](https://www.beliefnet.com/faiths/christianity/end-times/on-the-road-to-armageddon.aspx)** > > How evangelicals became Israel's best friend. [http://www.religion-online.org/showarticle.asp?title=216](http://www.religion-online.org/showarticle.asp?title=216) ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-what-is-the-relationship-between-israel-and-the-us/473201/7 "2008-11-18T00:26:36Z")
!) The U.S. has more Jews than any other nation in the world including Israel. They make up about 2% of the U.S. population and they aren’t all in NYC. 1. These Jews tend to be highly educated and some are very accomplished in many very high-profile areas. 2. Many Christian groups wouldn’t normally like Israel but Jews control the Holy Land and it has to be protected at all costs. 3. Israel isn’t a pure American ally but it is a window into the middle east and that is very important for military purposes and diplomacy. Plus, the Israelis can be a bunch of bad-asses and who doesn’t love that? ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-what-is-the-relationship-between-israel-and-the-us/473201/8 "2008-11-18T00:53:32Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > It must be comforting to have such a simple view of the world. * * * I’m sorry, but I find this post extremely condescending. Is that really necessary? ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-what-is-the-relationship-between-israel-and-the-us/473201/9 "2008-11-18T00:56:26Z")
The fundamentalist church that I attended in my youth preached clearly that while Christ died for our sins, the Jews were \*still \*God’s _chosen people_, and they who opposed the Jews would be condemned by God. I cannot state as a fact that other churches teach this, but I would be surprised if many do not. If I am not mistaken, even Chick mentions this in one of his tracts. So I suspect that many Christians back the alliance. (I’m reluctant to research that last statement.) ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-what-is-the-relationship-between-israel-and-the-us/473201/10 "2008-11-18T00:59:50Z")
It’s an interesting question, and an important one. Our blanket support for the state of Israel is a big part of the reason behind “why they hate us”. I think Israel has a right to exist. I don’t think blanket financial and military support of Israel is in the USA’s national interest anymore. They can damn well protect themselves. For those that deem Israel’s military responses to constant attacks to be “severe”, well, YOU try living there and being Jewish. Most of your neighbors want you dead, your country eradicated and support efforts by terrorist groups to that end. Israel is well within it’s rights to fight fire with fire, and then some. It’s the old “attack me? Fuck you, I’ll kick your ass and take some of your land to boot” philosophy. However, the Israel lobby in Washington is WAY too powerful and we are WAY too financially and militarily involved in their support. I don’t know where the balance is but if you can solve that problem then you’ve basically resolved the entire ME situation, because invariably it all centers around the USA and Israel, fairly or unfairly, for better or worse. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-what-is-the-relationship-between-israel-and-the-us/473201/11 "2008-11-18T01:26:54Z")
I think it also has a lot to do with Israel really being the only stable democracy in the Middle East (arguably Jordan as well, but enh). Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Sudan, Saudi Arabia – they all have had or are having problems with corruption, unelected rulers, military dictatorships, etc. (though, to be fair, we had a large hand in many of those problems, which is another reason all by itself). ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-what-is-the-relationship-between-israel-and-the-us/473201/12 "2008-11-18T01:37:06Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > I think it also has a lot to do with Israel really being the only stable democracy in the Middle East (arguably Jordan as well, but enh). Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Sudan, Saudi Arabia – they all have had or are having problems with corruption, unelected rulers, military dictatorships, etc. (though, to be fair, we had a large hand in many of those problems, which is another reason all by itself). But, Saudi Arabia is a very strong U.S. ally and has been for a long time. I have never quite figured that one out. Kuwait is one too but for more obvious reasons like saving their country during the first Gulf War. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-what-is-the-relationship-between-israel-and-the-us/473201/13 "2008-11-18T01:56:37Z")
> [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](#): > > European here, with little knowledge of either Israeli or US history, so forgive my ignorance. > > From what I’ve gathered from the reporting on the recent US elections, it seems that it’s very important for a US presidential candidate to (appear to) be supportive of Israel, to the point that both McCain and Obama made a visit there (some months ago) to bolster support, or whatever, they both deemed it a good strategy to go there in the first place. > > It also seems to me that in general, the US has a quite pro- (or less critical of) Israel view of the problems in the region compared to the country I’m living in (the Netherlands). > > My question is this: why? I can understand that the US has a tremendous amount of influence in the region and you guys have to be careful about the kind of message you send, and also, I can see that Israel doesn’t have many friends over there and probably needs some kind of protection just to stay viable. On the other hand, some of the military actions by Israel over the last couple of decades seem to me to be pretty severe and I’m not sure why anyone would be eager to support them. > > I’d like this thread to stay on topic of the US - Israel relations only. If you want to debate related issues, please just start a new thread and link it. Cheers. I basically agree with the others here. American Jews have a ton of money and influence. Look at the Forbes top 100 list some time. Probably 20-25% of the wealthiest people are Jewish. Serious Christians tend to be very pro-Israel. For example, well before she was nominated, Sarah Palin had 3 flags in her office in Juneau: An American flag; an Alaskan flag; and an Israeli flag. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-what-is-the-relationship-between-israel-and-the-us/473201/14 "2008-11-18T03:53:34Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > * * * > > I’m sorry, but I find this post extremely condescending. Is that really necessary? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-what-is-the-relationship-between-israel-and-the-us/473201/15 "2008-11-18T04:06:42Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > It must be comforting to have such a simple view of the world. The history of the Middle East and the involvement of the U.S. in the Middle East is, of course, far from simple. The U.S. has clear interests in a stable Middle East for political and economic reasons. However, even complex issues can often be boiled down after assessing the complexities and refactoring in consideration of fundamental issues. > [@](#): > > Firstly, the US Muslim population is on par with, or exceeds the Jewish population: [http://www.jewishexponent.com/article/12673](http://www.jewishexponent.com/article/12673) True on the face of it but irrelevant. Even the source you cite notes that, “…American Muslims – the majority of whom are not Arab, but hail from South Asia or are African-American…” Not all Muslims are anti-Israel, and those from Asia or who are African-American have no particular political axe to grind in the Middle East. > [@](#): > > Secondly, while there is a powerful Jewish lobby, there are also several Arab lobbying groups:[Arab lobby in the United States - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_lobby_in_the_United_States) Having a lobbying group in and of itself is meaningless. I once again turn to the material you cited which seems to argue against your point rather than for it: > [@](#): > > James Zogby [founder and president of the Washington, D.C.-based Arab American Institute] in a 2007 State Department Foreign Press Center Briefing [said]: “There are many Arab lobbies. Each Arab government hires lobbyists to do their work for them. And we Arab Americans are not an Arab lobby. I think that the thing in the Jewish community that’s interesting is that the Jewish community is supportive of Israel and the Israeli Government works very closely with elements in the American Jewish community around a convergence of ideas and issues and interests, and that has created the sense of an Israel lobby.” > > Mitchell Bard of the Jewish Virtual Library writes that “from the beginning, the Arab lobby has faced not only a disadvantage in electoral politics but also in organization.” Academics Ali A. Mazrui and Nabeel A. Khoury have also written about the virtual non-existence of an Arab lobby in America. And finally, > [@](#): > > Thirdly, the US has historically supported Israel, because Egypt and other Arab states were clients of the USSR, and the US thought it was in their strategic interests to have an ally in the region. Egypt is the second largest recipient of U.S. foreign aid after Israel, although there is not the same popular support for Egypt in the U.S., and the alliance is not as strong. Another issue that tends to bias popular opinion is media coverage of conflict in the Middle East. IMHO the media tend to focus on the plight of the terrorized Israeli rather than that of the innocent Palestinian losing land and security. There are certainly egregious acts and horrible damage on both sides but the U.S. media does not report it in a balanced way, with the possible exception of NPR. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-what-is-the-relationship-between-israel-and-the-us/473201/16 "2008-11-18T04:06:54Z")
> [@](#): > > But, Saudi Arabia is a very strong U.S. ally and has been for a long time. Yes and no. The government of Saudi Arabia has made the political decision that it’s a good idea to stay on the good side of the most powerful country in the world, but that doesn’t mean that they like us. Remember, most of the 9-11 terrorists were from Saudi Arabia, too. Another factor in the tie between Israel and the US is that when the state of Israel was established, many of the Jews who settled there came from the US. So many Israelis have American roots and possibly relatives, which leads to them being friendly to us. And them being friendly to us naturally leads to us being friendly to them, too. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-what-is-the-relationship-between-israel-and-the-us/473201/17 "2008-11-18T04:28:19Z")
> [@Khadaji](#): > > The fundamentalist church that I attended in my youth preached clearly that while Christ died for our sins, the Jews were \*still \*God’s _chosen people_, and they who opposed the Jews would be condemned by God. I cannot state as a fact that other churches teach this, but I would be surprised if many do not. > > If I am not mistaken, even Chick mentions this in one of his tracts. > > So I suspect that many Christians back the alliance. (I’m reluctant to research that last statement.) This is actually one of the most insightful posts in this thread. Religious reasons for why cultures move in the way they do are generally lost on this forum due to its atheist proclivities. Many Christians feel more of a kinship to Judaism theologically than they do to Islam. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-what-is-the-relationship-between-israel-and-the-us/473201/18 "2008-11-18T04:50:37Z")
During the 1950s and 1960s, many Arab factions courted the USSR. Israel was the closest thing we had to an ally in the region. During the 1970s and 1980s, Palestinians (or people claiming to be their friends) hijacked a lot of airliners and kidnapped a lot of Americans. Israelis didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-what-is-the-relationship-between-israel-and-the-us/473201/19 "2008-11-18T06:17:05Z")
Israeli culture is far more similar and familiar to Americans than that of most Arab nations. Certainly, Israel falls short of its ideals in any number of ways, but its aspirations to constitutional democracy, equality of the sexes, and freedom of the press are notions to which Americans tend to be very responsive. Moreover, although its mandate is generally limited to Jews, Israel has historically been viewed by many Americans as a haven for oppressed people drawn from around the world, which is reflective of one of the ways in which the US has liked to see itself (“your tired, your poor, your huddled masses” etc.). Again, I’m not saying that the ideal matches the reality; I’m just describing the perception. The Palestinian polity has generally been perceived/portrayed here as internally violent, oppressive to its own people, and destabilizing to the region. Fairly or not, the Palestinian image here was strongly tied to airplane hijackings, the Munich Olympics, and the _Achille Lauro_ (remember that Leon Klinghoffer was an American). None of this is to deny the valid national goals of the Palestinians. But it is also unfortunately a fact that our depredations of our Native American populations are farther back in history than Europe’s struggles with unraveling its third-world empires, so our sensitivity to issues of colonialism is more attenuated. > [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](#): > > It also seems to me that in general, the US has a quite pro- (or less critical of) Israel view of the problems in the region compared to the country I’m living in (the Netherlands). Flip the question around. Why is your country’s attitude toward Israel more critical than the general US attitude? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-what-is-the-relationship-between-israel-and-the-us/473201/20 "2008-11-18T12:00:43Z")
US media I would say is very very very biased in favour of Israel. I have no particular bone on that issue, a media exist to sell itself, it is never fair and balanced. I would say that blind support for Israel has hurt the US at times, the last Lebanon war for instance, “birth pangs of the new middle east”. Might change in the next few years as Arabs have a lot of cash and the US needs them (and the Chinese) a lot more than they need them. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-what-is-the-relationship-between-israel-and-the-us/473201.md?page=2)