We were discussing something similar in high school religion classes and imagine my consternation when *the priest * who was teaching the class said it was OK to go through a red light if it’s the middle of the night and you have checked that there’s no one else around. :eek: It rocked my world.
I has to confess I thought of one time I don’t. It’s when I come upon an empty parking lot space by surprise and quickly turn in. I don’t have time to signal but at the same time I don’t pull any quick moves without checking that no one is nearby.
There are a few places I have been where two roads meet but do not continue, so it forms an L-shaped turn and not a rounded curve. In such cases I see no need to signal, yet I have seen others do it and have noted the needlessness of it, figuring they probably signal out of habit.
I use a turn signal when necessary, which is fairly rare. Actually, there are only two instances that I can think of to use a signal.
1: I’m going to turn left or right onto a street where someone is waiting for me so that they can exit the street that I am about to turn onto. In this case the person waiting can use the information to make an action.
When I see that a police office is near.
Turn signals annoy the crap out of me and except in instance #1 above, I’m never in a situation where they give anyone actionable information. Let us take an example: You are going 60 in the right hand lane and I am going 80. I pass you and then begin to merge back into the right lane (I don’t hang out in the left hand lane, that’s a whole other point of contention), why in the world do you need to see a signal? I’m going 20mph faster than you, by the time I’m back in the right lane I’ll be 100 feet infront of you. What action are you going to take different if you see a turn signal?
Please feel free to come up with scenarios for an admitted non-signal user to reply to.
Yes, you are supposed to. How the hell do you know there is no one around who is counting on your signals to make decisions of their own?
I have, on more than one occasion, had to jump out of the way of a moving car. It usually happens at night, me wearing dark clothing. When I am trying to cross the side street and the car that was going parellel to me decides that they are going to make a sudden turn down that street without using their signal.
I am well aware of the fact that you can’t see me worth a rat’s ass so it is up to me to make decisions based on the ques around me. Those include your signal.
It is not just the happy cars and trucks on the road following you that want to know about your intentions. It is the pedestrians, motorcycles, cyclists, cars pulling out of spots without their lights on yet, and a multitude of other odd circumstances.
That is actually what I meant - I do always check my mirrors to see if there is someone, but the purpose of that is not to check if there is someone I need to signal to, and then signal based on that information. I could have phrased it better, though.
I object to the “there’s no one around” approach. Drivers often don’t see me when I’m on the streets running and it’s very important that I know what the driver intends to do. I take the approach that cars always have the right of way barring an explicit look, and so often it’s no more than an inconvenience and me waving “yes yes, make your fucking unsignalled turn already”, but I’ve nonetheless received a boost from one person’s hood and had a few more close calls. Really, just signal.
Ok, here’s one. I’m translating from being left-hand-side-of-the-road driver all my life, so I hope I get this right.
You’re travelling in the right lane, and there’s someone say 50 feet behind you in the left lane, travelling faster than you. You want to pull over into the left lane to pass the car in front of you. How the heck is the person behind you to know what your intentions are if you don’t signal? How can he decide to pass you or not?
I’m far more confident driving when I know what people are going to do; it’s as simple as that. How can you be absolutely sure that no one is watching you and basing their decisions on your stated intentions via your turn signal?
I have even been known - to my wife’s mixed amusement and annoyance - to get in front of cars on the highway which have forgotten that their turn signals are on, turn mine on the same way, and stay in front of them until they catch on and turn 'em off. Just my little contribution to traffic sanity.
About the only place I don’t use a signal where Isuppose some might object is on the highwayand the lane I am in is an exit only lane. I will signal if I am getting out of the lane, but if I am staying in it to exit then I don’t signal. I see folks signalling like they are getting off the freeway in that situation all the time.
So, on multi-lane highways, you are always going at least 20 mph faster than the rest of the traffic? Suppose, in your sceanario, there was someone going at 90 mph coming up behind you, and, not seeing you give a lane change signal, they decided to overtake you on your right, because you were going to stay in the left lane?
I think you did a good job explaining, let me see if I can do as good of a job in my response. My rule for this situation is (like many other situations) don’t make any move on highway that makes anyone else use their brakes (emergency moves obviously excepted). For this particular situation that would mean if I’m the person being passed, I would judge the speed of the car in the left lane behind me and see if I could pass the person in front of me before the person behind me would pass me. If the difference in the speed of the person behind me is greater than the difference in the speed of me and the person in front I would wait on the person behind me to pass. Whichever two cars have the greatest difference in speed is who gets to pass first. Regargless of the speed, I wouldn’t pull over if that meant the person behind me would have to use his brakes, I would just wait on him to pass.
Thank you. As a fellow pedestrian, I have stood and waited needlessly for a car to go straight when it’s going to turn; or had to dodge a car that turned toward me without signalling. And I will bang on the hood as it goes by and yell “use your goddam turn signal!”
No, I’m not always going at least 20mph faster than the rest of traffic, but I am usually going faster. I think I covered the rest of your question in my response
to Dervorin, except that I DO NOT stay in the left lane.
When the motorcyclist you don’t see coming up through your blind spot is going to get wiped out by sudden, unindicated lane change. Seriously, drivers who don’t indicate turns are one of the largest causes of motorcycle accidents (aside from would-be daredevils on crotch rockets lane splitting at 30mph faster than traffic or crossing the double yellows down a winding mountain road). And no matter how careful you are about checking your mirrors and looking behind you, it’s very easy to miss seeing a motorcyclist, especially in daylight when the headlight doesn’t stand out.
There is no conceivable argument against using signals. They take almost zero effort, are located right near your hands, and enforce the discipline of “check before turning.” They don’t cost you extra fuel, force you to slow down, or otherwise impair your efficiency or performance. Unless have the BMW Certified “Does Not Need To Use Signals 'Cause I’m A Big Shot” rating, you should be using your turn signals to indicate turns and lane changes regardless of whether (you think) anyone is around.
Well, I see I am not the only pedestrian to have almost been run down due to lack of turn signals because “no one is around”. Unless you are omniscent, it is never a good assumption.
I signal half-way through a lane change (it’s Denver, if you want to change lanes you can’t let the SOB’s know it in advance).
For turns - if I’m not in a dedicated turn lane or sometimes if there’s a cop around.
Far less often on my bike. No one watches bikers anyway, so it’s a wasted motion…
Let us take another example: It is a fairly crowded, but not slowed, highway. I leave a good four or five car lengths in front of me because I want to have reaction time to brake if the car ahead of me brakes (especially if said scenario is on wet roads). This is not room for you to merge into my lane. It’s a safety buffer between me and the car in front of me. If you signal that you want to get into this buffer, I can drop back another car length or two, making sure your merge remains safe, and knowing that your merge is intentional, so that I don’t rear-end you, who are now in my buffer. If you don’t signal, I suddenly have maybe a car length or two between me and you. If, in the five seconds or so after that, you have to brake because the lane’s traffic was slower than you expected, then I also have to react and brake, and do so with only ten feet between my front bumper and your back. I’ve seen an accident take place cars away from me because of exactly this. A tight merge with no signal.
What I fail to understand is what harm, nay, mild inconvenience, is it to signal your turns? You know your left hand that’s on the wheel? Just stick out a finger or two on it toward the dashboard, and as you begin a turn, you’ll flip the signal.
I think that the way I drive must be fundamentally different from other people. Driving gets 100% of my attention, I enjoy driving. I check my rear view mirror about every two-three seconds. I can tell you the make and color of every car visible in my rear view mirror. I also have my side view mirrors adjusted so that I hardly have a blind spot, I can always see atleast either the front or rear bumper (although I’ll admit that a motorcycle would be smaller). On top of that when someone is in my “blindspot” I am concious of it and wait on them to move out of it. If someone is just hanging out in my blindspot I will either accelerate or decelerate until I have remedied the situation.
As a cyclist I watch out for motorcyclists.
I know turn signals don’t use any gas, they’re just annoying and largely unnecessary.
So, you’ve never, ever, in your driving career, been surprised by a car or bike you thought wasn’t there? You’ve never started to make a lane change and had someone acceleate into the spot you thought you were going? You have an omniscience and absolute, zen-like control of your attention?
I seriously don’t mean to be snarky (well, maybe just a little bit). I have any reason to doubt that you’re a good driver, or that you place a great deal more emphasis and effort in awareness. I’m sure you believe that you check and see everything in the area before making a turn, and most likely see more than most people. But other people on the road are watching your signals to know what you intend on doing next; it lets them drive more safely as well. And the first time you don’t see something–because of a trick of the light, or a dark-colored motorcycle with a busted head lamp, or a pedestrian that starts crossing the road without realizing that you were making a turn–you may well avert an accident. “Annoying and largely unnecessary” is an esthetic judgement, not a practical one. As a practical matter, it takes no effort to use signals and is a consideration to other drivers.
Please reconsider your position with respect to using signals.
I don’t object; I would just like to mention that I do signal. I’m saying to the other drivers that, “Yes, I really did notice that I’m in an exit lane and I’m not going to do an ‘OH SHIT!’ and veer out of the lane unexpectedly.”
I also try to signal at the right time. I hate it when I see a signal turn on and, “No, they didn’t mean that street - no, not the gas station either - no, not the strip mall - Yes, the next street.” But, it’s better than no signal at all and breaking ten feet before the turn on a 45mph street. I try to begin breaking as I come upon the alley/drive/entrance/etc before my turn and activate my turn signal.
When I need to do a right turn and get into the left lane, I signal a right turn and switch to a left turn signal as I straighten from the right turn (my left hand is rotating the steering wheel back left so I just have to extend my fingers). To me it’s a graceful maneuver, but on a tight roundabout with a turn or lane change needed immediately off the roundabout I can see it being a little difficult.
If I have to make multiple lane changes I will turn off the turn signal, wait for a missing beat in the flashing pattern, and then turn it on again. The same when trying to change lanes in stop-and-stop traffic. After a bit of not being able to change lanes I’ll turn off my signal, wait, and turn it on again. In both situations I’m saying, “Yes, I didn’t just forget to leave my signal on, I really mean to do some fancy lane changin’ hyar, thankee.”
