# Why where cops better in the 80's and 90's? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 23, 2014, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-where-cops-better-in-the-80s-and-90s/689114 "2014-05-23T17:52:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2014, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-where-cops-better-in-the-80s-and-90s/689114/21 "2014-05-23T19:34:46Z")
> [@sweat209](#): > > But cops treated white people non criminals with more respect and very much so public safety and public service. > > I think cops now are just very frustrated and taking out on everyone even non criminals. I think you’re not really interested in a factual discussion, so this is pointless. ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2014, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-where-cops-better-in-the-80s-and-90s/689114/22 "2014-05-23T19:35:27Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > [It referred to the practice of cops targeting people they identified as “scum”, taking them to Cherry Beach - an isolated place on the waterfront far from any witnesses - and beating the shit out of them. Back in the '80s, “scum” in the cop’s opinions mostly equalled punk types, drunks/druggies, and gay people] May be there is less police brutality and use of force these days.But more being rude, happy to make arrest or looking to make a arrest. Very hyped up and get excited easy. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2014, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-where-cops-better-in-the-80s-and-90s/689114/23 "2014-05-23T19:40:12Z")
> [@sweat209](#): > > But more being rude, happy to make arrest or looking to make a arrest. > > Very hyped up and get excited easy. These are just empty statements. What evidence do you have that things are different than before or worse? ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2014, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-where-cops-better-in-the-80s-and-90s/689114/24 "2014-05-23T19:40:42Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I think you’re not really interested in a factual discussion, so this is pointless. You or some one said trend now of cops arresting firefighters for the fire truck blocking on car crash calls ,cops pulling EMS truck over ,cops arresting person for filming them ,cops arresting news reporter taking pictures of them ,protesters so on. This was trivial to past of more police brutality and use of force in the past?So more police brutality and use of force in the past? More of this trivial garbage these days being rude, happy to make arrest or looking to make a arrest feel good? ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2014, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-where-cops-better-in-the-80s-and-90s/689114/25 "2014-05-23T19:48:11Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > These are just empty statements. What evidence do you have that things are different than before or worse? I think of the problem is one of members was saying the things I’m talking about > [@](#): > > trend now of cops arresting firefighters for the fire truck blocking on car crash calls ,cops pulling EMS truck over ,cops arresting person for filming them ,cops arresting news reporter taking pictures of them ,protesters so on. Some how that it is trivial to the past of more police brutality and use of force so police are better these days.Less police brutality and use of force. So activities may have gain in one areas now it is the being rude, happy to make arrest or looking to make a arrest feel good? sorry may be my post and question was not clear and confusing. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2014, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-where-cops-better-in-the-80s-and-90s/689114/26 "2014-05-23T19:56:56Z")
> [@sweat209](#): > > This was trivial to past of more police brutality and use of force in the past?So more police brutality and use of force in the past? I’m not sure exactly what you intended to say, I’m having difficulty parsing your posts. Please slow down and proof read them so we can understand what you points you are making. But, in general, a few anecdotes do not make your case. There wasn’t 24/7 news and the desire to report on police brutality in the past so you won’t be able to rely on news reports. You assume because you can find some evidence of current brutality that it’s worse than in the past. But all you have are anecdotes. How much brutality happened in the past versus how much happens today? There may be more, there may be less. Without some data you can’t really say one way or the other. Relying on news reports is a pretty bad way to make your case. Also, earlier in the thread you seemed to dismiss actions against blacks or as part of the civil rights movement. Why wouldn’t you count those incidents? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2014, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-where-cops-better-in-the-80s-and-90s/689114/27 "2014-05-23T20:02:06Z")
> [@sweat209](#): > > But the problem is they don’t seem to know who is the bad guy today? Or are just stressed out and frustrated and taking it out on everyone. You apparently didn’t get my point the first time : there is no such thing as a “bad guy”. There’s just guys. The cops are supposed to serve and protect \*all \*of them. Sometimes from themselves, but hey. You can’t tell them it’s A-OK to go above and beyond the law as long as they do it in service of getting the “bad guys” (i.e. become “bad guys” themselves in the process) and expect good results for the “good guys”. The lines get blurred, you see ? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2014, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-where-cops-better-in-the-80s-and-90s/689114/28 "2014-05-23T20:05:47Z")
Take your “cops arresting people for filming them” example : cop beats the shit out of a “bad guy”, or somebody they decided was a bad guy anyway. Cop gets filmed. Film goes to court. Cop gets sent to jail because _it happens to be against the fucking law_. Now everybody with a camera is, wittingly or not, helping the “bad guys” by sending cops who beat up “bad guys” to jail. So obviously they become bad guys too. Which means they deserve to get roughed up, right ? So it goes. And this, kids, is why you don’t sanction police brutality (or “extrajudicial renditions”, in a different arena) just because it looks expedient at the time. ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2014, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-where-cops-better-in-the-80s-and-90s/689114/29 "2014-05-23T20:09:39Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > I’m not sure exactly what you intended to say, I’m having difficulty parsing your posts. Please slow down and proof read them so we can understand what you points you are making. > > But, in general, a few anecdotes do not make your case. There wasn’t 24/7 news and the desire to report on police brutality in the past so you won’t be able to rely on news reports. You assume because you can find some evidence of current brutality that it’s worse than in the past. But all you have are anecdotes. > > How much brutality happened in the past versus how much happens today? There may be more, there may be less. Without some data you can’t really say one way or the other. Relying on news reports is a pretty bad way to make your case. > > Also, earlier in the thread you seemed to dismiss actions against blacks or as part of the civil rights movement. Why wouldn’t you count those incidents? If I understand I made thread saying **Why where cops better in the 80’s and 90’s** giving list of things I have notice on youtube and police shows!! If I understand the reply to me people said those thinks are **more annoying at worst. It’s of almost zero importance compared to the other things being discussed here.** Well meaning people talking about police brutality and use of force. Than some members was saying there less police brutality and use of force and saying > [@](#): > > It referred to the practice of cops targeting people they identified as “scum”, taking them to Cherry Beach - an isolated place on the waterfront far from any witnesses - and beating the shit out of them. Back in the '80s, “scum” in the cop’s opinions mostly equalled punk types, drunks/druggies, and gay people] So I guess the thread should say now that there is less police brutality and use of force these days why are they so you know what I’m saying now days. ---
**Author:** ![Lacunae\_Matata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lacunae\_Matata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lacunae_Matata)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2014, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-where-cops-better-in-the-80s-and-90s/689114/30 "2014-05-23T20:09:53Z")
> [@sweat209](#): > > So may be the problem is liberal media ,government and police chief where cops are scared to bring out the baton in street fight ,bar fight or guy resisting now or to shoot guy armed with out saying 5 or 10 times drop the gun or knife that they are stressed out and frustrated and taking it out on non criminals and public safety fire/EMS and public service now days. Your interpretation of my post is “cops are less likely to take aggressive action due to advanced surveillance methods, therefore they are more likely to enforce laws aggressively?” I don’t really think you’re looking for a debate here. You are searching for an echo chamber to repeat and amplify your bias. This may not be the audience you seek. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2014, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-where-cops-better-in-the-80s-and-90s/689114/31 "2014-05-23T20:11:46Z")
> [@sweat209](#): > > You or some one said trend now of cops arresting firefighters for the fire truck blocking on car crash calls ,cops pulling EMS truck over ,cops arresting person for filming them ,cops arresting news reporter taking pictures of them ,protesters so on. That’s what you said in the OP. > [@](#): > > This was trivial to past of more police brutality and use of force in the past? The EMS and fire truck things are trivial, yes. > [@](#): > > So more police brutality and use of force in the past? I don’t know if there was more police brutality in the past. Why don’t you look up some facts and tell us what you find? ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2014, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-where-cops-better-in-the-80s-and-90s/689114/32 "2014-05-23T20:21:49Z")
I’ve been in law enforcement since 1982 (retired in '07 but took a part-time gig to stay in it). We used to be able to get away with a lot more shit. Not so much crimes but general misconduct. Drunk driving, getting into bar fights, badging out of traffic tickets, doing personal stuff on duty. Etc… Almost none of that is tolerated today. Up until about circa 1995 one could stick his boot up a dirtbags ass instead of arresting them and solve the problem on the street. For the various reasons already listed one cannot get away with thumping someone along side the head nowdays unless it is an actually act of self defense and not just a beat down. One thing that happened was around the mid-90’s the Vietnam era coppers started to retire. Agencies started getting federal grant money to replace them and those they hired were college educated non-veterans that had a different set of values. Those guys eventually got promoted up the ranks and attitudes and ethics within agencies changed. ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2014, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-where-cops-better-in-the-80s-and-90s/689114/33 "2014-05-23T20:22:21Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > You apparently didn’t get my point the first time : there is no such thing as a “bad guy”. There’s just guys. The cops are supposed to serve and protect \*all \*of them. Sometimes from themselves, but hey. > > You can’t tell them it’s A-OK to go above and beyond the law as long as they do it in service of getting the “bad guys” (i.e. become “bad guys” themselves in the process) and expect good results for the “good guys”. The lines get blurred, you see ? I think back than the media ,governemnt ,court and police where more okay with street fight ,bar fight or guy resisting no question **out comes the baton**.Now it is like unless the cop is about to be beaten up no baton. Back than if the bad guy had gun or knife and he did not drop it than you shoot him.Now it is what could you use different.Did he run after you with knife to justified shooting him. If there is car chase ,foot case or gang members fighting and the bad guy gets hurt case close.Now it what can you do different as an officer. So now cops are stressed out and frustrated and taking it out on non criminals and public safety fire/EMS so on.The more annoying ,being rude, happy to make arrest or looking to make a arrest feel good. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2014, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-where-cops-better-in-the-80s-and-90s/689114/34 "2014-05-23T20:24:20Z")
So basically, **sweat209** , you’re not really all that concerned about police brutality. You’re upset you heard that police arrested a firefighter one time and pulled over an EMS truck one time. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2014, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-where-cops-better-in-the-80s-and-90s/689114/35 "2014-05-23T20:25:45Z")
Despite decreasing levels of crime law enforcement is being taught to view each of us as a potential threat rather than reinforcing a sense of community. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2014, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-where-cops-better-in-the-80s-and-90s/689114/36 "2014-05-23T20:35:11Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Take your “cops arresting people for filming them” example : cop beats the shit out of a “bad guy”, or somebody they decided was a bad guy anyway. Cop gets filmed. Film goes to court. Cop gets sent to jail because _it happens to be against the fucking law_. That doesn’t seem to be how it actually works. It’s more \*“cops beat/kill some innocent person, someone films it, it’s a minor news story, the police go unpunished and go right back to beating and shooting people”. \* The law doesn’t apply to the police most of the time, they can do as they please. ---
**Author:** ![Lacunae\_Matata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lacunae\_Matata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lacunae_Matata)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2014, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-where-cops-better-in-the-80s-and-90s/689114/37 "2014-05-23T20:37:02Z")
Why yes, every cop I know\* spends his days and nights just itching to put the beatdown on a bad guy, and since he can’t get away with that nowadays, he just randomly arrests good guys. It’s like methadone for law enforcement. Heaven knows that LEOs are totes unaware that their own lives might depend upon those other first responders someday\*\*! There’s even a quota for most departments: the chief says you won’t get that sweet new Dodge Charger until you’ve arrested a firefighter or EMT\*\*\*! - Sample size approximately 150. \*\* Sarcasm. \*\*\* More sarcasm. Everyone knows that you get a new Tahoe if you just arrest a rank and file EMT or firefighter. The Chargers are reserved for those who arrest a captain or above. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2014, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-where-cops-better-in-the-80s-and-90s/689114/38 "2014-05-23T20:40:38Z")
I find the idea that cops were somehow less brutal or less corrupt in the 80s or 90s astonishingly naive, particularly when this seems based on vague anecdotal evidence. Beyond that, cops are brutal the world over, particularly when it comes to discriminated against minorities. You’re not going to meet too many Arab Israelis, Muslims in France or Germany, or ethnic Koreans in Japan who think police brutality is something that only happens in the movies. None of that of course is to excuse present day behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Kansas\_Beekeeper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@Kansas\_Beekeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kansas_Beekeeper)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2014, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-where-cops-better-in-the-80s-and-90s/689114/39 "2014-05-23T20:41:46Z")
I disagree entirely with the premise that cops were better in the 80s and 90s. On average, I find them much more professional and even-tempered now. ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5ac83/32.png) [@Doug\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_K)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2014, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-where-cops-better-in-the-80s-and-90s/689114/40 "2014-05-23T20:49:15Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > You ever hear a cop refer to non-cops as “civilians” ? Always makes me grit my teeth. You’re a civilian too, asshole ! [M-W:](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/civilian) > [@](#): > > ci·vil·ian noun \sə-ˈvil-yən also -ˈvi-yən > : a person who is not a member of the military **or of a police** or firefighting force [Dictionary.com](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/civilian) > [@](#): > > civilian   Use Civilian in a sentence > > ci·vil·ian [si-vil-yuhn] Show IPA > noun > > 1. a person who is not on active duty with a military, naval, **police** , or fire fighting organization. > 2. Informal. anyone regarded by members of a profession, interest group, society, etc., as not belonging; nonprofessional; outsider: We need a producer to run the movie studio, not some civilian from the business world. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-where-cops-better-in-the-80s-and-90s/689114.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-where-cops-better-in-the-80s-and-90s/689114.md?page=3)