# Why Windows 8 is a failure. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 24, 2013, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269 "2013-05-24T22:24:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![galen\_ubal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galen_ubal/32/4440_2.png) [@galen\_ubal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen_ubal)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2013, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269/181 "2013-06-02T11:59:19Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > This is just a question. No snark is intended because, in the long run, I probably don’t use the Calc app any more than the rest of you, but just use it as an example we can all understand: > > If you are using Win8 on a tablet or phone you probably don’t have a keyboard. How do you access the calculator without typing? Besides **Mangetout’s** notes, there is also an on screen keyboard; I’m presuming a “tablet or phone” would have a touchscreen (certainly my Win8 tablet does). The OSK (onscreen keyboard) is very good, by the way. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2013, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269/182 "2013-06-02T17:52:03Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > True, but change always costs a little pain - it remains to be seen what this one is like in the long run. No it doesn’t remain to be seen. Look, Win8 may work great for you, but it’s pretty ridiculous for you to sit here and argue you know better than other people that have more data regarding their own usage patterns (and people that have decades of experience designing software and UI’s). When I walk back through the actions I took on Friday at work Win8 would have been more cumbersome for many of the actions I took. > [@](#): > > Ultimately, Microsoft is in the business of meeting its own needs, but I don’t believe they’ve completely ignored their users - at worst (and I’m still not really convinced of it) this could be a bit of an awkward, but necessary step brought about by the hinge moment between PCs and tablets, screens and touchscreens. Yes MS is in the business of meeting it’s own needs. We’re not debating whether MS can do whatever they want, we’re debating whether their actions resulted in a product that fits market X or not. And no, it isn’t a required step. That’s why Apple still has a desktop OS. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2013, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269/183 "2013-06-02T18:08:34Z")
Windows 8 is a desktop OS, and pretending otherwise is beyond silly. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2013, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269/184 "2013-06-02T18:16:54Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Windows 8 is a desktop OS, and pretending otherwise is beyond silly. Grow up you fucking 2 year old. Of course it runs on the desktop, the term doesn’t mean what you apparently think it means. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2013, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269/185 "2013-06-02T18:48:06Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > Grow up you fucking 2 year old. > > Of course it runs on the desktop, the term doesn’t mean what you apparently think it means. I’ll try again. Windows 8 is an OS that works perfectly well on, and is primarily designed for, the desktop, with some additional UI elements to make it easier for touch screen users. Saying otherwise, as you and others have done here, is simply false. If you bothered to use it, and learn the interface, you’d find there’s nothing that’s harder to do than in previous versions (for the average home or office user, there’s a couple of issues for tech support), and many things are easier. Instead, you see a different looking screen, cry OMG TOUCH WAAAAH, and then accuse others of being immature, which is amusingly hypocritical. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2013, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269/186 "2013-06-02T19:05:04Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I’ll try again. Windows 8 is an OS that works perfectly well on, and is primarily designed for, the desktop, with some additional UI elements to make it easier for touch screen users. Saying otherwise, as you and others have done here, is simply false. > > If you bothered to use it, and learn the interface, you’d find there’s nothing that’s harder to do than in previous versions (for the average home or office user, there’s a couple of issues for tech support), and many things are easier. Instead, you see a different looking screen, cry OMG TOUCH WAAAAH, and then accuse others of being immature, which is amusingly hypocritical. Ok, some of the things I did Friday with the start button that were quick and easy: Clicked remote desktop and selected from list of servers Right clicked on Computer and selected “Manage” Brought up a cmd line by typing in CMD Clicked on Calculator If I were using Win8 those wouldn’t be harder? (Having to remember some new keyboard shortuct is in the “harder” category) ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2013, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269/187 "2013-06-02T19:32:29Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > Ok, some of the things I did Friday with the start button that were quick and easy: > Clicked remote desktop and selected from list of servers > Right clicked on Computer and selected “Manage” > Brought up a cmd line by typing in CMD > Clicked on Calculator > > If I were using Win8 those wouldn’t be harder? (Having to remember some new keyboard shortuct is in the “harder” category) The latter two, no, they’re effectively identical. Manage Computer is an extra click to bring up File Explorer, then right click\>manage. I don’t know about remote desktop, as I don’t use it, but WinKey\>r\>e\>m\>click on the icon works, and again you can pin it to the start screen so it’s one click. If anything, the extra space for programs you can pin to the Start screen will help you, if for some reason you don’t want to pin your regularly used programs to the taskbar. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2013, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269/188 "2013-06-02T19:36:56Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > Ok, some of the things I did Friday with the start button that were quick and easy: > Clicked remote desktop and selected from list of servers Don’t know - I’ve never used RDP or TSC on Win8, but I doubt it’s tricky. > [@](#): > > Right clicked on Computer and selected “Manage” Right-click in bottom left corner (‘Start corner’) and click ‘Computer Management’ > [@](#): > > Brought up a cmd line by typing in CMD Almost exactly the same in Win8 - press the Start key, then type CMD\ > [@](#): > > Clicked on Calculator If you’ve pinned calculator somewhere, you can just click on it. > [@](#): > > If I were using Win8 those wouldn’t be harder? Not really. > [@](#): > > (Having to remember some new keyboard shortuct is in the “harder” category) ‘Some new keyboard shortcut’ should read ‘the name of the application’. If you can remember the name of the application - any part of the name - you can launch it via the keyboard. Interestingly, the third item on your list was one of these things. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2013, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269/189 "2013-06-02T19:44:27Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > The latter two, no, they’re effectively identical. Manage Computer is an extra click to bring up File Explorer, then right click\>manage. Doesn’t need to be an extra click - a right-click in the Start Corner brings up a menu containing: Programs and Features Mobility Centre Power Options Event Viewer System Device Manager Disk Management Computer Management Command Prompt Command Prompt (Admin) Task Manager Control Panel File Explorer Search Run Desktop ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2013, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269/190 "2013-06-02T19:46:40Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > No it doesn’t remain to be seen. > > Look, Win8 may work great for you, but it’s pretty ridiculous for you to sit here and argue you know better than other people that have more data regarding their own usage patterns (and people that have decades of experience designing software and UI’s). Yes, it would indeed be ridiculous if I was doing that. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2013, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269/191 "2013-06-02T20:01:35Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Don’t know - I’ve never used RDP or TSC on Win8, but I doubt it’s tricky. Ok, but just guessing isn’t really a valid support of the “it’s not harder” opinion. > [@](#): > > Right-click in bottom left corner (‘Start corner’) and click ‘Computer Management’ > > Almost exactly the same in Win8 - press the Start key, then type CMD\ I assume when you say “Start key” you mean the right-click on Start corner - which I agree is clearly just as easy. If “Start key” really meant I had to hit a key then it would be in the harder category. You should not have to touch the keyboard to navigate (if you don’t want to). That’s why GUI’s were created. > [@](#): > > If you’ve pinned calculator somewhere, you can just click on it. With Win7 I don’t need to pin it somewhere - the current functionality that was removed kept it at the top of my start menu due to my usage patterns. This is functionality that, while minor, is indeed “harder” due to the fact that they eliminated it. Pretty hard to argue with that. > [@](#): > > Not really. Correct on 2 items - the items on the start corner menu Not correct on 2 items - Calc and RDP (I just googled how to do it) > [@](#): > > ‘Some new keyboard shortcut’ should read ‘the name of the application’. If you can remember the name of the application - any part of the name - you can launch it via the keyboard. > Interestingly, the third item on your list was one of these things. Launching and navigating via the keyboard is harder. That’s why GUI’s were invented. You may like it, but to categorize it as “not harder” for other people, based on your own likes and dislikes doesn’t really carry much weight. I can tell you (and you will have to trust me on this) keyboard navigation and having to remember names of things to search for to launch them is slower for me and some percentage of others. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2013, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269/192 "2013-06-02T20:12:48Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > Launching and navigating via the keyboard is harder. That’s why GUI’s were invented. But the combination of keyboard and mouse is easier than either one on it’s own. It gives you more options, and more opportunity to do things in the way that suits you most. Now, Windows 8 has added a third option, touch, _in addition_ to the other two, making it easier still, and you are complaining about it. That’s ignoring the fact that, by installing 1(one) program, you can bring the start menu back and never see that App screen. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2013, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269/193 "2013-06-02T20:30:40Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > I assume when you say “Start key” you mean the right-click on Start corner - which I agree is clearly just as easy. > > If “Start key” really meant I had to hit a key then it would be in the harder category. You should not have to touch the keyboard to navigate (if you don’t want to). That’s why GUI’s were created. Seriously? Your example was about launching a command prompt by typing CMD. You’re about to type CMD **on the keyboard** , and you’d rather click the mouse before this, then switch to keyboard, rather than press a key before it? In any case, right-click in the Start corner and select Command prompt is easier still. > [@](#): > > With Win7 I don’t need to pin it somewhere - the current functionality that was removed kept it at the top of my start menu due to my usage patterns. This is functionality that, while minor, is indeed “harder” due to the fact that they eliminated it. Pretty hard to argue with that. I agree that the removal of a dynamically-pinned list of recent/frequently-used applications is a minor loss. > [@](#): > > I can tell you (and you will have to trust me on this) keyboard navigation and having to remember names of things to search for to launch them is slower for me and some percentage of others. I’ve no doubt you’re right - but for things you use frequently, it’s very simple to pin them to Start or the Taskbar, or set up a desktop shortcut - and for things you don’t use frequently, it’s always been necessary to go off and hunt them - the method of hunting has changed, is all. Have you actually used Win8 at all? ---
**Author:** ![chewsick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6f9a4e/32.png) [@chewsick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chewsick)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269/194 "2013-06-03T00:24:05Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > If you bothered to use it, and learn the interface, you’d find there’s nothing that’s harder to do than in previous versions (for the average home or office user, there’s a couple of issues for tech support), and many things are easier. Good call. For me, I choose to use the keyboard, and for me Windows 7 is great. For others who have an interest in moving on to alternative methods, Windows 8 might also be great. One big (emphasis on “big”) happy family. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269/195 "2013-06-03T00:45:38Z")
> [@chewsick](#): > > Good call. For me, I choose to use the keyboard, and for me Windows 7 is great. I think this is an important point - Windows 8, even where it’s better than 7, is only slightly better - as good as the new file copy dialogue is, for example, it’s not reason by itself to upgrade. This is why this whole argument seems strange to me, if Win8 is flawed, it’s in being too similar to it’s predecessor. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269/196 "2013-06-03T06:04:03Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I think this is an important point - Windows 8, even where it’s better than 7, is only slightly better - as good as the new file copy dialogue is, for example, it’s not reason by itself to upgrade. This is why this whole argument seems strange to me, if Win8 is flawed, it’s in being too similar to it’s predecessor. The new file copy dialog is awesome - I had many thousands of photos on an assortment of different backups, some of which overlapped - in some cases, like-named files were duplicates, in other cases, they were different - in the case of collision, Win8 shows comparative thumbnails and lets you choose whether to keep one, the other, or both. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269/197 "2013-06-03T11:33:46Z")
You know that you can just type 3\*4^e/9pi+3 into Google to get an answer, right? (and it opens to the Google calculator) If you use Chrome, you can just type it right into the joint url/serach bar. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269/198 "2013-06-03T13:47:29Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > But the combination of keyboard and mouse is easier than either one on it’s own. No, it isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269/199 "2013-06-03T14:01:44Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Seriously? Your example was about launching a command prompt by typing CMD. > You’re about to type CMD **on the keyboard** , and you’d rather click the mouse before this, then switch to keyboard, rather than press a key before it? Good point. For that example the transition from keyboard to mouse is going to happen either way so it’s the same. > [@](#): > > I agree that the removal of a dynamically-pinned list of recent/frequently-used applications is a minor loss. It can be minor and it can be major based on each individuals usage patterns. But the larger point is that it was unnecessary to actively remove something that may have been a nice feature for many. It was a strange move. > [@](#): > > I’ve no doubt you’re right - but for things you use frequently, it’s very simple to pin them to Start or the Taskbar, or set up a desktop shortcut Sure, or I could write my own Start button. The point is they removed something they didn’t need to remove and it was not a positive or a neutral for many, it was a negative. > [@](#): > > - and for things you don’t use frequently, it’s always been necessary to go off and hunt them - the method of hunting has changed, is all. And for many the old method was a better way of hunting, so why remove that option and artificially force them to do it a way that may not work as well for them? > [@](#): > > Have you actually used Win8 at all? Nope. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269/200 "2013-06-03T15:12:28Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > No, it isn’t. You are simply incorrect here, unless you are missing a hand. If so, I’ll concede your point, but if so it’s so far from the norm that it should have been mentioned. If not, you are just ignorant. Even if you try to claim it’s easier _for you_ to just use the mouse, this can only be true if you haven’t bothered to learn the system you’re using - hence, ignorant. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269.md?page=11)