# Why Windows 8 is a failure. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 24, 2013, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269 "2013-05-24T22:24:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Silophant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a698b9/32.png) [@Silophant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silophant)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2013, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269/21 "2013-05-25T01:48:32Z")
I honestly don’t get the complaints about the start screen in Windows 8. The most common one seems to be “it takes you out of what you’re working on.” Are most people in W7 working on an Excel spreadsheet or whatever, and then navigating the start menu’s nested interface while still focusing entirely on the spreadsheet? If not, and you’re focusing on the start menu while you’re using it, why is it a bad thing that the start menu now takes up the entire screen and has bigger buttons? It still goes back to the exact same desktop once you’ve selected your program. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2013, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269/22 "2013-05-25T02:13:00Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Really? It’s that simple? > > Well let me just hit my start button then. > > Funny it appears I don’t have a start button anymore. I guess I’ll just go look for my “charms” - one of those says start. It must work just like my old start button worked. > > No, it just seems to have brought me to a new page. This start page is full of “apps” but none of them is a calculator. Oh wait, there’s some more apps off to the side of my screen. I wonder why they made everything so big they couldn’t fit it all on a single screen? Well, I’ll just scroll over and see if I can find my calculator app. > > No, it’s not over there either. I suppose it might be located somewhere on the screen but I wouldn’t know - Windows 8 has helpfully made a lot of features on your screen invisible. > > Oh, I’ve got it now. All I need to do is find the invisible charms bar, click on the search charm, close down the pop-up apps window that covers part of the page, scroll through the three screens full of app icons until I find the calculator icon, and then click on that icon. > > Yes, that’s every bit as convenient as clicking on the start button and then clicking on the calculator icon. [Here](http://www.classicshell.net/) is the answer to your prayers. Seriously, this freeware utility is the cat’s pajamas, the cream in my coffee, a ray of sunshine, and all in all makes Windows 8 work the way it should. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2013, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269/23 "2013-05-25T03:18:36Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Really? It’s that simple? > > Well let me just hit my start button then. > > Funny it appears I don’t have a start button anymore. Yes, you do. It’s right there on your keyboard between the CTRL & the ALT buttons. You may not have a fancy schmancy calculator button, but you have a Windows key. > [@](#): > > I guess I’ll just go look for my “charms” - one of those says start. It must work just like my old start button worked. It does. The old start button opened the Start menu, the new start button opens the start menu. Yes. The Start Menu looks different. Your cheese has been moved. Inability to deal with that is a personal problem. > [@](#): > > I wonder why they made everything so big they couldn’t fit it all on a single screen? Well, I’ll just scroll over and see if I can find my calculator app. The new icons are cleaner and easier on the eyes than looking at ittybitty font in drill down menus. > [@](#): > > No, it’s not over there either. I suppose it might be located somewhere on the screen but I wouldn’t know - Windows 8 has helpfully made a lot of features on your screen invisible. As has been mentioned, all you have to do is type “calc”. The app will present itself. Right click on the icon and you choose to pin it to your start menu or to the taskbar. You can do both even. Just like, you know, how you could right click on icons in the old start menu and pin it to your task bar or the big start menu. It’s a nice app. It includes Standard, Scientific, Statistical and Programmer modes, date calculation and unit conversions. > [@](#): > > Oh, I’ve got it now. All I need to do is find the invisible charms bar, click on the search charm, close down the pop-up apps window that covers part of the page, scroll through the three screens full of app icons until I find the calculator icon, and then click on that icon. > > Yes, that’s every bit as convenient as clicking on the start button and then clicking on the calculator icon. You don’t actually need to do that. And at the risk of blowing your mind, allow me to mention the following hotkeys: WIN= Start Menu Win +D = Desktop WIN+E = Explorer WIN+F = Advance Search WIN + C = Charm bar WIN+W= Search the settings menu Move you mouse to the bottom left corner and right click for the “pro menu” with helpful choices like the Event View, the CMD, the Control Panel, Task Manager etc. If you to change your color scheme or background pics, hit the WIN+W hotkey and type “Startup” and choose Advanced Startup Options. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2013, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269/24 "2013-05-25T03:41:38Z")
Microsoft shill detected ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2013, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269/25 "2013-05-25T03:48:56Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > [Here](http://www.classicshell.net/) is the answer to your prayers. > > Seriously, this freeware utility is the cat’s pajamas, the cream in my coffee, a ray of sunshine, and all in all **makes Windows 8 work the way it should.** Just like windows 7. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2013, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269/26 "2013-05-25T06:54:47Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > If you to change your color scheme or background pics, hit the WIN+W hotkey and type “Startup” and choose Advanced Startup Options. Is there an option for those of us who don’t need a bunch of pretty boxes? For the record, I also wasn’t impressed by Bob or Clippy or that dog that scratches himself during file searches. I don’t want or need a cute interface on my computer. As for your helpful instructions, I know how to call up a calculator. And Microsoft knows how also - they’ve demonstrated that on past products. So the question is why Microsoft is selling a product that doesn’t work as well as the product it replaced. ---
**Author:** ![Silophant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a698b9/32.png) [@Silophant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silophant)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2013, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269/27 "2013-05-25T07:01:17Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Microsoft shill detected 13 year old account. 2400 posts. Probably a shill, yeah. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2013, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269/28 "2013-05-25T11:27:27Z")
> [@Silophant](#): > > 13 year old account. 2400 posts. Probably a shill, yeah. Hey, man, he’s probably in Deep Cover! ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2013, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269/29 "2013-05-25T11:50:59Z")
[When I need a calculator, I’ve got this one handy.](http://www.amazon.com/Wrongulator-Calculator-always-gives-answer/dp/B005K97THS/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top) ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2013, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269/30 "2013-05-25T12:12:12Z")
Windows XP: Start\>Programs\>Accessories\>Calculator Windows 8: Start(button)\>C\>A\>L\>Click I guess a mix of three keystrokes and one mouse click is marginally less efficient than four mouse clicks, but if you need things closer to hand than that, you pin them to the start screen, the taskbar or create a desktop shortcut. If Windows 8 is a failure, it’s because people are so ingrained in the habit of clicking through a hierarchical mess of folders and subfolders for everything, and can’t deal with change. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2013, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269/31 "2013-05-25T12:14:36Z")
Actually… Windows XP: wait three minutes for the machine to boot, then click Start\>Programs\>Accessories\>Calculator… ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2013, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269/32 "2013-05-25T12:25:15Z")
I just pinned the calculator to the start screen. Which is not to say that I’m a fan of Windows 8. With some fiddling, configuring and coercion, I can make it act like a sensible OS (that is, like Windows 7), and not so much like a freakish result of a crazy night of drunken passion between Windows and a the worst mobile phone OS ever, but right out of the box the thing is a complete brainfuck. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2013, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269/33 "2013-05-25T12:53:34Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Microsoft shill detected Go find me the Microsoft equivalent of John Gruber or (shudder) Daniel Eran Dilger. Or, for that matter, the Microsoft equivalent of a David Pogue or Walt “I’m sorry, I couldn’t possibly wedge another iPhone up my arse” Mossberg. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2013, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269/34 "2013-05-25T13:26:22Z")
My old watch had these things called gears and springs in it. I think it was powered by steam. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2013, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269/35 "2013-05-25T14:50:18Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > To me, it appears Microsoft made a big mistake by tying two projects together: a new operating system (Windows 8) and a new tablet platform (Surface). Windows 8 is designed to work best on a tablet like Surface. If Microsoft had just sold Windows 8 with Surface, its users probably would have liked it. > > Microsoft should have kept Windows 7 around for PC’s. Instead by pushing 8 on to PC users, Microsoft ended up giving 8 a bad reputation by forcing its use on a platform it wasn’t designed for. And ironically that bad reputation has now hurt Surface sales. People are avoiding buying a tablet that uses Windows 8 (where it probably works fine) because they’ve seen it working poorly on a PC. I’ve got to say that I am totally infatuated with my new Surface Pro tablet…I’m still getting used to it and I spend most of my time on the old school desktop but the more I use the other features the more I like them. My biggest frustration was the damn Firewall…I use lots of proprietary software that establishes bidirectional communications with wireless equipment over the Telnet and FTP ports and I couldn’t just turn off the FireWall like I did with previous versions, I had to disable it in about a dozen different ways before I could get the programs to work. But I made them work and I just have to be careful not to undo it all with one keystroke as the machine keeps nagging me to “fix” the security issues. But the ability to run this software was what drew me to the Surface…like Sheldon Cooper says " the stuff I want to buy hasn’t been invented yet"…and I have been jonesing for a tablet that could run these proprietary programs used for setting up building automation systems on construction sites for forever and I purchased my Surface within 10 minutes of finding out about its existence. It really DOES make the iPad look like a toy. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2013, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269/36 "2013-05-25T14:51:22Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Is there an option for those of us who don’t need a bunch of pretty boxes? Desktop icon ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2013, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269/37 "2013-05-25T15:09:46Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Really? It’s that simple? > > Well let me just hit my start button then. > > Funny it appears I don’t have a start button anymore. This. This, this, this, this. This. Give me back my fucking start button, Windows 8. If I had known it’d pull that crap, I never would have gotten a computer that came with it pre-loaded. And I agree that it’s not convenient at all. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2013, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269/38 "2013-05-25T15:12:28Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > This. > This, this, this, this. This. > > Give me back my fucking start button, Windows 8. > > If I had known it’d pull that crap, I never would have gotten a computer that came with it pre-loaded. > > And I agree that it’s not convenient at all. is the one on your keyboard broken? ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2013, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269/39 "2013-05-25T15:36:34Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > is the one on your keyboard broken? No… Nor does it do what the Start button I’m used to does. Nor does it have anything the other Start buttons did. If I have to do anything more than having it already there (like the last ones did), then yeah, it’s my opinion it’s just not very convenient (as the OP said).\ If I still have to to do a search or “run” anything I want to ever find, that sort of makes the point of a start keyboard button redundant. ETA: What Nemo says [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16321919&postcount=11) sums it up nicely. The keyboard start button doesn’t bring up the calculator. Is there a way to put it on there? Maybe. Probably. Still doesn’t mean opening start and being able to do it with one click rather than having to set it among lots of other strange gobbletygook isn’t much easier.. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2013, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269/40 "2013-05-25T16:01:42Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > is the one on your keyboard broken? Or the one that pops up when you move the mouse to the bottom left corner of the screen. I got Windows 8 when I got my new laptop about a month ago, and I was all set to hate it from what I’d read. Instead, I’ve found it’s the best OS I’ve used. The few elements of the UI I dislike are trivial to change (installing Classic Shell, as mentioned earlier, because I prefer the old school start menu and booting to desktop, and changing focus to follow the pointer, which as far as I remember has always needed a minor registry edit). I think it took me about 90 minutes to get it working more or less how I wanted, with a few more minor tweaks. It’s always been necessary to use third party programs in Windows to personalise it - indeed, that’s one of it’s strengths, and the main thing (for me) it has over a Mac. I do think it would have been preferable to not have the full screen Start menu as the starting point at boot, but it’s such a minor point, and as I said trivial to get rid of, that I’m not going to trash a significantly improved OS for it. Some links, for those who are interested. [Microsoft’s Windows 8 End User guide.](http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=39055) How-To Geek on why [Windows 8’s desktop is an improvement.](http://www.howtogeek.com/128123/10-awesome-improvements-for-desktop-users-in-windows-8/) The same site on why [it’s more secure than previous versions.](http://www.howtogeek.com/128182/6-ways-windows-8-is-more-secure-than-windows-7/) Blog article from one of their writers on [how they came to love Windows 8.](http://www.howtogeek.com/141376/how-i-learned-to-stop-hating-and-start-loving-windows-8/) For balance, another one of their writers on [why they hate it.](http://www.howtogeek.com/145984/why-i-still-use-windows-7-after-a-year-of-trying-to-like-windows-8/) All that said, whilst I think Windows 8 is great, with the exception of the new Task Manager, it’s not a vast leap ahead of 7, and if you’re happy with that, stick with it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269.md?page=3)