# Why Windows 8 is a failure. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 24, 2013, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269 "2013-05-24T22:24:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2013, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269/81 "2013-05-27T06:46:49Z")
BTW, the start menu is not coming back, just a visible start button. And, yeah, I would like to have a smaller version of the start screen that didn’t take up my whole screen, but seeing as I rarely need to use the thing, it doesn’t bother me all that much anymore. The real problem with Windows 8 is that they got rid of Frequently Used Programs. Yes, you can find it in some hidden away place, but it’s stupid that it’s not on the start screen. Why take away Windows’s ability to help organize you? And, yes, they also flattened the start menu hierarchy, making subfolders useless. That was stupid, too. The only way to do that would be with some sort of automatic organization that would put things in better categories (rather than one folder per new app), based on tags or something. Like all versions of Linux have had forever. Those are the things to gripe about. Not some claim of inconvenience that is just as convenient as it was before. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2013, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269/82 "2013-05-27T07:59:49Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > You sound like all those people out there who don’t realize (or refuse to accept) that Windows 7 really and truly is Windows Vista R2. Seriously, the actual difference between Vista and 7 is fairly minor. I accept that Win7 is Win Vista R2. I also understand that Vista is a downgrade from XP, while Win7 is an upgrade from the same. I have a Vista and a Win7 machine at home and the latter is a much more pleasurable experience, though I concede that this is merely due to some relatively minor (but important!) tweaking. From what I understand Win 8 is a downgrade. One bad thing about Win7 is that you can’t easily organize your Start Menu in a hierarchy like you could in XP. This is a problem if there are programs with odd names that you haven’t used in 6 or 18 months. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2013, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269/83 "2013-05-27T11:00:54Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > The real problem with Windows 8 is that they got rid of Frequently Used Programs. Yes, you can find it in some hidden away place, but it’s stupid that it’s not on the start screen. Why take away Windows’s ability to help organize you?. it wasn’t there so much to “help” you as it was there to mitigate how much of a mess the start menu became after a non-trivial number of programs were installed. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2013, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269/84 "2013-05-27T14:41:57Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I click the start button (which is there, just hidden) Yes. Just in case not everyone is actually aware of this: You bring up the Start screen by moving your cursor to the bottom left corner of your screen and clicking. Also, the Start screen is a heck of a lot nicer to use once you organize the damned thing. [This](http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/4508/startgs.jpg) is what mine looks like now. Notice everything I actually use pinned to the Start screen. No need to type in anything whatsoever. I’m actually finding it more convenient than using desktop icons now. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269/85 "2013-05-28T16:42:08Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > As I said above, I think it would have been a smart move for Microsoft to introduce Windows 8 on its new Surface tablets. It would have been a good fit - a new touch screen OS on a new touch screen computer. The two new products would have helped sell each other. > > The mistake Microsoft made was to insist on replacing Windows 7 with Windows 8 on non-touch screen PC’s and laptops. This was a dumb idea. They replaced an OS that was designed for non-touch screen computers with an OS primarily designed for touch screens. They put Windows 8 in the wrong environment for it and the result is Windows 8 looks bad in comparison to Windows 7. I disagree that Win8 is primarily designed for touch. It’s got touch-friendly features, and they’ve aimed for a look and feel that’s consistent with their other platforms (RT and WP8), but there’s nothing that demands or requires a touchscreen. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269/86 "2013-05-28T19:36:06Z")
I find it surprising people are defending Windows 8. There is no doubt that this is a mis-step by MS and they are already backpeddling to fix it, as others have pointed out. I went in to the new Windows store to check it out. It’s shocking how bad of an initial experience this is. First of all the store is a complete ripoff of the Apple stores. So, it reminds you of apples existence a few doors down at the mall. Then you’ve got an OS so new and foreign as to not be recognizable at all as Windows. These two things will drive users to Apple. If they have to learn a new OS anyway, why not get a Mac and learn that? The sales reps in the store completely have been trained to focus on damage control. The first thing they said to me was something like: “See, if you click here, then here, then here, then here you get to something almost like the start menu. So, it’s not that bad!” The final interesting point about the store: The new Surface tablet looks interesting. But the price is a secret. It’s not in their TV spots, and it’s not anywhere in the store. Not that I could find, anyway. The other devices and PCs all had prices prominently displayed but not the surface. It was very odd. I say all this as a MS fan and not a Mac person. It’s like they’re trying to be Apple and losing themselves in the process. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269/87 "2013-05-28T19:37:08Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > I disagree that Win8 is primarily designed for touch. It’s got touch-friendly features, and they’ve aimed for a look and feel that’s consistent with their other platforms (RT and WP8), but there’s nothing that demands or requires a touchscreen. The salespeople in the stores focus heavily on touch. They were promoting this heavily. ---
**Author:** ![Kimballkid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269/88 "2013-05-28T19:49:06Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > The final interesting point about the store: The new Surface tablet looks interesting. But the price is a secret. Um, yeah, [not quite](http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/cat/categoryID.62685300?icid=Homepage_TopCat_1_Surface_050213). ---
**Author:** ![Jman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jman/32/4416_2.png) [@Jman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jman)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269/89 "2013-05-28T19:52:31Z")
I installed Start 8 from the getgo with Windows 8, which gives the Start menu back (and you can customize it a bit). Other than removing that, which was dumb, I love Windows 8. The improvements under the hood are huge from a speed standpoint. With my SSD, my machine boots from POST to desktop in about 8 seconds. That’s just insane. Lots of other nice little touches too. I’ll admit I hardly ever go into the Metro start screen, but occasionally, I like using the native News app there, as it’s quite attractive…otherwise, I just stay in the desktop and use it how I used Win 7, but I enjoy the extra under the hood stuff throughout. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269/90 "2013-05-28T19:54:22Z")
> [@Kimballkid](#): > > Um, yeah, [not quite](http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/cat/categoryID.62685300?icid=Homepage_TopCat_1_Surface_050213). That links leads me to this: > [@](#): > > Sorry, there was a problem with your request. > Return to the Microsoft Store home page. Boy is there egg on my face. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269/91 "2013-05-28T19:55:29Z")
> [@Jman](#): > > Other than removing that, which was dumb, I love Windows 8. Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play? ---
**Author:** ![Kimballkid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269/92 "2013-05-28T19:59:52Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > That links leads me to this: > > Boy is there egg on my face. I don’t know what’s wrong on your end, it leads me right to the surface page at the microsoft store, with prices and everything!! ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269/93 "2013-05-28T20:00:50Z")
Here is a good article discussing the situation. I agree with the author’s premise. [Why Window’s 8 Failure isn’t a Bad Thing.](http://investorplace.com/2013/05/why-the-windows-8-failure-isnt-a-bad-thing/) > [@](#): > > Windows 8 — the company’s most dramatically different operating system update in years — represented what CEO Steve Ballmer called a “bet-the-company” moment. Microsoft spent somewhere north of $1.5 billion promoting the new tablet-inspired OS … only for the product to fail to catch fire on shelves, create a cacophony of user complaints about an interface that appealed to tablet users but alienated many core customers and be blamed for slumping PC sales. > > So Microsoft cried uncle. > > A senior Windows executive, quoted in The Wall Street Journal, said: “The learning curve is real and needs to be addressed,” as she confirmed that Microsoft’s next Windows update (code-named Blue) will incorporate modifications to make the OS more appealing to that non-touchscreen crowd. > [@](#): > > The execution may not have been perfect and the reaction may not have been what was hoped for, but let’s face it — even though the move may have cost Microsoft some PR points, delayed some upgrades and led to more calls for CEO Steve Ballmer’s head — even the flop wasn’t that bad. An update with a few tweaks should be enough to make things right. > > That old maxim “You can’t succeed without failure” holds true in business and perhaps even more so when it comes to technology companies. To me, the Windows 8 do-over is a positive sign because it shows Microsoft is still trying. > > Personally, I’d be more concerned if Ballmer and Microsoft stuck to a patter of modest Windows updates, catering to the people who like things the way they are. > > In the tech industry, that’s a surefire way to eventually find yourself becoming the next Kodak — an iconic pioneer turned blue chip that stayed the course and played it safe as technology changed everything … all the way to Chapter 11. Microsoft definitely overreached. Previous versions of Windows would always still look and function like Windows. They would have new features or skins, but would be able to be set back to the version people were used to. I’m glad they are trying something new and trying to innovate. But this was clearly a miss. It’s one that can easily be fixed with 8.1, so it’s not a huge deal. But people defending the new OS as perfect do seem to come across as shills. I mean, even Microsoft has admitted there is a problem here. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269/94 "2013-05-28T20:04:03Z")
Windows 8 was a huge improvement over windows 7 in several ways. I am no fan of Microsoft in general, but 8 is a success. I enjoy the start screen. It’s much faster overall. The new task manager is EXCELLENT and makes me wonder how we ever got by with anything less. I love the ability to lock apps on the sides to display both an app and the desktop. I could go on but I think you get the point. So no, it’s not obvious to all of us that Windows 8 is some huge mistake that Microsoft is reeling from and is trying to correct. I like it, and lots of other people like it too. It’s incredibly simple and easy to use, and very fast compared to 7 in most every way. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269/95 "2013-05-28T20:04:14Z")
> [@Kimballkid](#): > > I don’t know what’s wrong on your end, it leads me right to the surface page at the microsoft store, with prices and everything!! I have no doubt you can get the price if you seek it out. I’m sure it’s on the web page and I’m sure someone at the store could have told me if I bothered to ask. But it’s very odd that the store didn’t have the price. Maybe it was a fluke thing and they were in the middle of changing it or something? I noticed this at the store and have an interest in marketing so when I started seeing the TV ads I noticed they didn’t have a price as well. That’s odd. Amazon, Google and Apple all mention the price of their tablets in every ad. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269/96 "2013-05-28T20:04:28Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > I find it surprising people are defending Windows 8. There is no doubt that this is a mis-step by MS and they are already backpeddling to fix it, as others have pointed out. I find it surprising that people on this board can on one hand think they’re the smartest people on the internet, while on the other hand have such difficulty with the notion that other people might not have the same opinion on something. > [@](#): > > These two things will drive users to Apple. If they have to learn a new OS anyway, why not get a Mac and learn that? 1. you don’t have to “learn a new OS.” I keep repeating that the instant you go to the Desktop (which is represented by a nice big honking tile prominently on the Start screen) you’re in something that looks pretty much like Windows 7. 2. if a prospective user isn’t even capable of seeing and clicking on the Desktop tile, then being confronted with OS X is likely to make said user collapse in a blubbering mess. 3. You think people would flock en masse to pay 2x as much for a Mac? Windows 8 _is not the Start screen._ > [@](#): > > It was very odd. I say all this as a MS fan and not a Mac person. Bull. Shit. ---
**Author:** ![Jman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jman/32/4416_2.png) [@Jman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jman)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269/97 "2013-05-28T20:09:02Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play? I think if Mrs. Lincoln could reverse the acts of the play by taking 30 seconds to download a tweak, she wouldn’t have that big of a problem any more, now would she? Seriously, the start menu replacement can be handled for little to no money (I use Start 8, which is $5, but many other start button replacements are free), and then there’s no issue. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269/98 "2013-05-28T20:09:40Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > Windows 8 was a huge improvement over windows 7 in several ways. I don’t dispute this. > [@](#): > > I am no fan of Microsoft in general, but 8 is a success. 8.1 will be a success. 8 is doing Ok, but has some serious flaws. Even Microsoft executives admit this. Do you dispute that? Or do you just think everyone who disagrees with you is wrong even though they are legion? > [@](#): > > So no, it’s not obvious to all of us that Windows 8 is some huge mistake that Microsoft is reeling from and is trying to correct. Read the article I linked to. It’s not a HUGE mistake, but it was a mistake to focus on touch too much, to remove the start menu, and to force people to the Start Screen were an overreach. It’s a correctable one, and 8.1 will fix it. But to deny that the problem exists is silly. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269/99 "2013-05-28T20:12:27Z")
> [@Jman](#): > > Seriously, the start menu replacement can be handled for little to no money (I use Start 8, which is $5, but many other start button replacements are free), and then there’s no issue. You want people to pay money for a start button? The point is people liked it and Microsoft is already adding it back. Removing it was a mistake. I know this. Microsoft knows this. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269/100 "2013-05-28T20:19:12Z")
I will admit that a lot of people see mistakes in windows 8, but not all of us see them, is all I was saying. I’m not denying that there is a problem for OTHER people, just that I haven’t had any problems myself, and that I genuinely enjoy windows 8 more than any other windows operating system. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-windows-8-is-a-failure/659269.md?page=6)