When is 8.1 supposed to be released? Will it be a free thing like the service packs or do you have to pay extra for it?
Of course they are - touch (on a desktop/laptop) is a newish thing that gadget-oriented people might find exciting, and touchscreen computers sell at higher pricepoints - why wouldn’t they be promoting it?
Still doesn’t make Windows 8 a touch-dependent OS.
You realize it’s not just me who disagrees with out about the issues with Windows 8, but it’s Microsoft’s own executives?
Yes, the sales rep showed me this as the very first thing. It was clearly something she had been trained to do in an effort to do damage control because the dramatic changes are too much for many users.
I work in software, I work with UX designers and front end developers all day. I have no trouble using something new and when I buy a Win 8 machine I’m sure I’ll be able to figure it out just fine. But most users aren’t me. Unlike you, I’m able to grasp that most users don’t like too much change and will be turned off by such a different look and feel.
They’ll find it because they reps are showing it to them while assuring them, “look, it’s still there.”
They do it all the time! I have no idea why people choose to pay twice as much for the same hardware because it has a little apple on the box. I am genuinely surprised sometimes that people find Droid phones or Windows PCs so difficult to use that they pay so much more for Apple products.
But do you think Microsoft would be wise to ignore the threat of Apple because they cost more? That would be foolish.
By setting up their store just like the Apple store and changing their products so much they are practically encouraging people to check Apple out. I guess they figure everyone already is, but it’s risky.
Yeah, Window’s 8 is a lot more than that. But the start screen is a huge part of it and was the focus of their 1.5 billion dollar marketing campaign. And people don’t like it.
Do you seriously think that being critical of a couple of components of a new version of Windows means I must be an Apple shill?
Yes, it’s going to be free - they’re calling it a service and feature pack.
yet you suggest that people who don’t like too much change will change to an entirely different OS, with an entirely different look and feel, and pay quite a bit more for the privilege. It’s only slightly less ludicrous than claiming it’ll lead to 2013 being the Year of Linux on the Desktop (TM.)
I agree that removing it was a mistake…and I love how you conveniently ignored the second part of my statement, that “many start menu replacements are free.”
I like the look and customization options on Start 8, but if you want, you can download ClassicShell and many others for free. Is it ideal? No, it was dumb of MS to remove the start menu (or at least not have it be an option), but acting like its removal cripples the entire OS doesn’t help things either.
I’m defending it because I like it.
IMO, the mistake they made was not really so much about the OS design - most of what they did wrong was to misjudge their customers’ perceptions.
the big problem (IMO) is if you have it on a touch device; it’s simply not finished. The real issue is if you have to change control panel settings; many of them can only be found in the classic control panel and good luck navigating that by finger.
I don’t disagree with any of that.
This is exactly how I’ve been openning windows calculator for years and it still works in 8. It takes less than a second to open it. Even before it was, it was Start > R > calc > Enter, which was just one more key.
Sure, GUIs are great, but at a desktop, generally keyboard shortcuts are faster. I’ll use shortcuts or pin things for stuff like a game or other programs that I use often enough and getting to that way wouldn’t be more efficient for. I also hate cluttering with icons or pins for stuff I don’t use fairly often. And still, if you use it enough or really like clicking on stuff, is it that hard to find it once and make a shortcut or pin it?
Really, of all the things that you could complain about with Windows 8, this seems just seems incredibly minor and, ultimately, not even really a problem.
Yes. You are correct. It’s simply crazy to think that people would switch to a different OS with a different look and feel and pay more for it simply because they prefer it more.
You should tell Apple, Google and Facebook about this so they can all shut down and we can go back to using Sony Walkmans, Altavista and Myspace.
People do switch when they don’t like a new user experience. Not all of them, but certainly some of them.
Sure. It’s not the money, it’s the fact that you need to download something to fix it. Think of the Grandmother user. Can she go find a replacement Start Menu, when she can’t even figure out where the start menu went?
Agreed. My point exactly. It was dumb. It doesn’t cripple the entire OS, and I’m sure the new OS is great once you get used to it. But if you piss off all your existing users, you’ve got a problem.
Katie Couric was on Howard Stern the other day and was admitting what a mistake it was for her to sit in front of the news desk (because the producers wanted her to be able to show some leg). This works for Fox News and MSNBC, but Couric said they messed up because the average viewer of network news is 65+ and is used to the format. They mis-judged their audience and switched back once they realized their mistake.
So I’m supposed to take my hand off my mouse so I can TYPE?!?!? Fuck that! The old way was three lousy mouse clicks. The way you describe requires me to click, release the mouse, type four characters and a carriage return, pick up the mouse, and locate the cursor. Messy and lost productivity, especially if you use a heavily-customized CAD system you have set up to minimize keyboard input.
The difference between “it’s got touch-friendly features” and “primarily designed for touch” lies in whether or not the keyboard-and-mouse-based interface can be selected as a default, banishing the touch-based interface into out-of-sight and out-of-mind limbo.
In the case of Win8 as it exists now, that would be “not”. Fortunately, the hints that have emerged from Redmond’s riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma suggest that the mistake has been recognized and is being rectified in as face-saving a manner as can be managed.
And a lot faster than usual! We had to wait three years of monthly/weekly/daily reinstalls of Win 3.0 before they brought out the more-stable 3.1. Windows 95 didn’t become stable (in its fashion) until Windows 98. I’m nearly at the point of saying that they will get my XP Pro SP3 when they pry it out of my cold, dead fingers. (I’m fat and not young. It may not be long.) And since the only “tablets” I use are Palm Pilots and a Toshiba Dynapad that runs Win 3.1 beautifully I don’t need or want touch features. (Many a salesman has heard me say, “Touch my screen and die.”)
I’ll use Win 8 eventually, so I’m glad they are fixing things, but computers have been commodities for decades, and when everybody and his grandmother uses something, developers have to realize that something bedrock like an OS needs to evolve incrementally, not with great leaps forward. Most users don’t like change, feel that some is change for its own sake to pump up sales (the ribbon), can’t be bothered to learn something new unless (or even though) it affects their jobs, or just aren’t very bright and are hanging onto their computer skills by their fingernails already.
We get into this same discussion every time MS comes out with a new Windows, where MS thinks everybody is into new gadgets, when most (nearly all) users, especially corporate users, just want the goddamn thing to operate the same today as it did yesterday. Ultimately, our bosses aren’t paying us to learn new software. They are paying us to get our jobs done, and the software is just a means to that end.
Added: Thinking about the dozens of operating systems and user interfaces I’ve used in the past thirty-some years I’m reminded of something (else) I’ve said before: There comes a time when learning a new OS stops being fun.
Well fuck. See, I would call that a basic design flaw, but I’ve been told that I’m not remotely capable of making that kind of assessment. Now I see that it’s simply just not finished. Thanks for clearing that up.
Up until now I had shortcuts to apps like calculator, write and notepad gathered in an accessory folder on the desktop.
That tip is super cool. Thanks!
And +1 for the opinion the Windows 8 really should have only been released with Surface.
I worry that the Surface Pro isn’t selling like hotcakes and this will lead some pencil-pushing territorial fief at Microsoft to cancel or backburner it. It’s a fantastic product.
I disagree that the Metro Start screen is exclusively a ‘touch-based interface’. It’s touch friendly, but it’s completely usable with mouse/trackpad and keyboard.