# "Why women should vote for women." **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 6, 2016, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-women-should-vote-for-women/751392 "2016-04-06T22:18:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-women-should-vote-for-women/751392/121 "2016-04-12T03:21:29Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Well people were talking about racial discrimination even though that is not directly related to the topic. And while I certainly don’t think class is the be-all and end-all, I do think it is the primary problem and division of modern society. Racial discrimination was brought up as another ‘identity’ where people may choose to vote for someone who looks like them. Basically, the thread is about identity politics and how that relates in voting for President. Class politics is not the same (I mean no one would necessarily argue that working class people voting for a working class candidate because of his class is all that controversial, as I pointed out). (In addition, I’d argue that is the biggest division in the progressive movement - between those who believe class divisions are the primary problem and those who believe that identity politics are the primary problem.) ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-women-should-vote-for-women/751392/122 "2016-04-12T06:52:15Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > That is a distinction without a difference. The white person is voting for the white candidate because he thinks it will benefit white people like himself. The black person is voting for the black candidate because he thinks it will benefit black people like himself. Having double standards in a democracy that benefits minorities is not a sustainable equilibrium. Not only that, but you have to explain to everyone how to rank their minority and disadvantaged status. Okay, so I’m a Latina woman(I’m not, just using that as an example). If I see a race between a white woman and a white man, I vote white woman, because I’m a woman and she’ll do more for women. If I see a race between a Latino man and a white man, I vote for the Latino man, because he’ll do more for Latinos. But then I see a race between a Latina woman and a black woman. Obviously I vote for the Latina woman, because she’ll do more for Latinas AND women! Oh wait, that would be racist. Well, what if black people vote for the black candidate over the Latina candidate. Is that a good thing, or is that racist? Is objectivity only supposed to apply when two minorities are running against each other? What if it’s a white gay candidate vs. a black woman, or a white woman vs. a black man, or an Asian man vs. a black man? Asians have it better than African-Americans, so are Asians supposed to remain objective or is it okay to vote for the Asian guy because he’s Asian? Due to changing demographics, the end result of encouraging people to vote for people who like them, to tell them it’s okay to think that way, is that black candidates won’t have a prayer. Black men will be nearly shut out entirely. Barack Obama will be the first and last black male President, because women will be preferential to women and Latinos will be preferential to Latinos, and the Asian population is also set to grow bigger than the black population. So black folks get the shaft yet again. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-women-should-vote-for-women/751392/123 "2016-04-12T07:00:09Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > The veritable definition of bigotry is thinking that as long as one person of color has it better than one white it’s completely fair to be biased. In an increasingly diverse country, the idea that one gets a pass to be biased because they are underprivileged is basically a pass for everyone to be biased. Back when it was black vs. white and at best, male vs. female, things were pretty simple. Today, we have females, blacks, Latinos, Asians, gays, transgendereds, disabled, little people, etc. out and demanding equality(and they should!) But how is a person who is simultaneously part of a privileged class and an underprivielged class supposed to conduct himself or herself? How about we all just be objective when voting? ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-women-should-vote-for-women/751392/124 "2016-04-12T13:47:13Z")
Does this mean men should vote for men? ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-women-should-vote-for-women/751392/125 "2016-04-12T13:49:04Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > You say that as if it’s a point that ends the conversation. Sometimes double standards are ok. If a group is disadvantaged, a double standard which may help in equalizing them isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Basically, who cares if it’s a double standard? A white man voting for a white man because of his characteristics is voting to perpetuate his own privilege and power. A black man voting for a black man because his characteristics is voting to help overturn privilege and power structures which haven’t allowed black men to be in charge in the past. The intention is totally different and that’s totally ok. Yes, sometimes double standards can be good. That assumes that all white male candidates and all white male voters only want to perpetuate their privilege and power. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-women-should-vote-for-women/751392/126 "2016-04-12T14:30:48Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > That assumes that all white male candidates and all white male voters only want to perpetuate their privilege and power. If you are a white male voter who is voting for a candidate simply because they are a white male (note, I never said that’s the only reason one would vote for a white male)… then yeah, you are perpetuating your privilege and power. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-women-should-vote-for-women/751392/127 "2016-04-12T15:08:45Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > In an increasingly diverse country, the idea that one gets a pass to be biased because they are underprivileged is basically a pass for everyone to be biased. Right. Because we’ve never lived in a world in which everyone was biased. Or in which many of them were so effective at it that the rest were effectively removed from power and privilege. And we don’t currently live in a world in which your beloved Republicans, mostly white, male, straight Christians, are bashing minorities daily at every level of government. There is a known historical fix for this if you are a bashed minority. Vote for more people who look like you. Over time the bashing will end, often with the aid of people who don’t look like you because they will see the political advantage and maybe even the moral advantage. You might even wind up with a whole political party which is inherently against hate-bashing and so makes it a likely proposition to vote for anyone under that banner. Or we could just do it your way and perpetuate the hate. The hate against blacks, against Hispanics, against women, against Muslims, against gays, against atheists, against pagans, against immigrants, against liberals, against progressives, against anybody and everybody who isn’t as totally small-minded and blinkered in thinking as they are. No thanks. You got your way and it produced Trump, the logical culmination of hate at a national level. Your so-called lack of bias is the biggest bias of all. We’ve done it your way so we know. We need to stop. We know how to stop. It will stop. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-women-should-vote-for-women/751392/128 "2016-04-12T15:17:15Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > If you are a white male voter who is voting for a candidate simply because they are a white male (note, I never said that’s the only reason one would vote for a white male)… then yeah, you are perpetuating your privilege and power. But if it’s possible for me to vote for a white male and NOT be voting just to perpetuate privilege and power, then what’s your point in the first place? Is it possible for a white male candidate to support ending white male privilege? If so, it’s possible for not only a white male, but also a black female to vote for the white male for that reason. The whole thing falls apart when you stop making racist and sexist assumptions about the candidates and what they support. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-women-should-vote-for-women/751392/129 "2016-04-12T16:08:04Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > But if it’s possible for me to vote for a white male and NOT be voting just to perpetuate privilege and power, then what’s your point in the first place? Isn’t it quite obvious? That black people voting for someone because they are a black person or a woman voting for someone because they are a woman is very, very different than a white male voting for someone because they are a white male. > [@](#): > > Is it possible for a white male candidate to support ending white male privilege? If so, it’s possible for not only a white male, but also a black female to vote for the white male for that reason. ? Are you simply not following this discussion at all? ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-women-should-vote-for-women/751392/130 "2016-04-12T16:26:48Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Isn’t it quite obvious? That black people voting for someone because they are a black person or a woman voting for someone because they are a woman is very, very different than a white male voting for someone because they are a white male. Perhaps not from the white male’s perspective. > [@](#): > > ? Are you simply not following this discussion at all? I asked a question. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-women-should-vote-for-women/751392/131 "2016-04-12T16:30:02Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Perhaps not from the white male’s perspective. Hence why I’ve been explaining it. Post #108 is a good summation of the question asked and my response. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-women-should-vote-for-women/751392/132 "2016-04-12T16:30:22Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > I’d be happy if you would evangelize for the truth of white privilege among poor whites. Maybe then they wouldn’t scoff at the advantages they have in American society simply based upon the color of their skin (what, they think they have it bad? Maybe they should compare their lot to similarly situated black people in poverty or jail - esp when it comes to getting a job when both of them apply for the same one). While you are at it, can I also get you to try to convince them that no, racism isn’t over? Let’s have a contest on which group has it worse off. Then what? What policies does it lead to? ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-women-should-vote-for-women/751392/133 "2016-04-12T16:33:45Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Hence why I’ve been explaining it. Post #108 is a good summation of the question asked and my response. Do you actually think you explained something I don’t already know in post 108? So back to my comment - if a white male can vote for a white male without it being a vote to perpetuate white male privilege, what’s your point? (Yes, I see the point about voting for a white male only because they are a white male. The problem is that you assume that voting for a black female is always going to produce a change in power. It’s not. A black female could be a totally incompetent or corrupt politician who does nothing to help blacks and women). ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-women-should-vote-for-women/751392/134 "2016-04-12T16:40:41Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > So back to my comment - if a white male can vote for a white male without it being a vote to perpetuate white male privilege, what’s your point? > > (Yes, I see the point about voting for a white male only because they are a white male. It appears you’ve found the point after all. > [@](#): > > The problem is that you assume that voting for a black female is always going to produce a change in power. As mentioned before in this thread, all other things being equal, someone who looks like a disadvantaged group being elevated to a position of power is quite powerful symbolically (and, yes, symbols matter). (I mean it seems that even the most right wing person acknowledges the symbolism of President Obama being the first African-American President was important) ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-women-should-vote-for-women/751392/135 "2016-04-12T16:48:10Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > It appears you’ve found the point after all. Okay, so it’s bad to vote to want to extend privilege. Great. Big revelation. > [@](#): > > As mentioned before in this thread, all other things being equal, someone who looks like a disadvantaged group being elevated to a position of power is quite powerful symbolically (and, yes, symbols matter). Symbols are worthless when reality is more important. This reminds me of the problem with the Voting Rights Act. The VRA has been used to require packing black voters into districts so they can muster a majority to elect blacks, assuming that blacks represent blacks best. But that has backfired terribly by sucking all the life out of sympathetic white candidates in neighboring districts. Instead of a majority in Congress that could have the power to help blacks (i.e. a Democratic majority) we have more black reps who are members of a minority party that can’t get anything done for them. That’s reality, not symbolism. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-women-should-vote-for-women/751392/136 "2016-04-12T16:49:54Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > (I mean it seems that even the most right wing person acknowledges the symbolism of President Obama being the first African-American President was important) True, but he was a first. The GOP knows all this, you know. They are busy recruiting black and female candidates who support the GOP agenda, putting people like you in a bind. It’s quite possible that in a given race, a vote for a white male and against a black female is better for black females. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-women-should-vote-for-women/751392/137 "2016-04-12T16:52:07Z")
Yeeeah… that’s totally not what the VRA really did. The VRA prevented a group of black voters who live in an area from being divided up into 4 or 5 different districts so that their vote would be a distinct minority in their new districts, allowing people who were hostile to black rights being elected while ‘representing’ black districts. Or did you think states in the Deep South in the 1960s were looking out for their black citizens? I’m not entirely sure your ‘reality’ actually exists. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-women-should-vote-for-women/751392/138 "2016-04-12T16:52:35Z")
The response to the fact that this is a double standard has either been 1) denial that this is a double standard, or 2) defense of this being a double standard. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-women-should-vote-for-women/751392/139 "2016-04-12T16:59:08Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > The GOP knows all this, you know. They are busy recruiting black and female candidates who support the GOP agenda, putting people like you in a bind. Aside from the “all other things being equal” part, which conveniently you and the GOP ignore. So then you wonder why black folk won’t vote en masse for Ben Carson or women for Carly Fiorina. The sad part is you think you’ve put people on the left in a bind, but it never appears to work. That must be frustrating ;). ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-women-should-vote-for-women/751392/140 "2016-04-12T17:04:46Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Yeeeah… that’s totally not what the VRA really did. The VRA prevented a group of black voters who live in an area from being divided up into 4 or 5 different districts so that their vote would be a distinct minority in their new districts, allowing people who were hostile to black rights being elected while ‘representing’ black districts. Yeah, that’s EXACTLY what it did. By packing all the black voters from those four or five districts into one, the rest are left more white. So now you have one black rep and four very white, very Republican districts where, in one or two, white liberals who were sympathetic to blacks might have been able to win with the help of those black votes. I’m not saying it’s like that in all cases. Obviously the original situation was black voters being divided into different districts in order to make their votes useless and elect right-wingers regardless. Obviously the requirement to pack them had good intentions and good results, sometimes. But EVEN IN CASES where a district might have enough liberal whites to combine with blacks and elect a sympathetic white, those districts have been drained of black voters, handing them to the rightwing Republicans. In fact, packing black voters into one big district was one of the other ways Southern states had disenfranchised them, by giving them only one seat and leaving the rest to whites (it was much easier before one-person, one-vote required the district populations to be equal - they’d just create one giant black district in a major city and divvy the rest of the seats to whites). I believe that is a major reason for the GOP taking the House in the 1990s after 40 years of being in the minority. > [@](#): > > Or did you think states in the Deep South in the 1960s were looking out for their black citizens? Do you think states in the Deep South are looking out for their black citizens NOW? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-women-should-vote-for-women/751392.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-women-should-vote-for-women/751392.md?page=8)