# "Why women should vote for women." **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 6, 2016, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-women-should-vote-for-women/751392 "2016-04-06T22:18:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-women-should-vote-for-women/751392/141 "2016-04-12T17:07:39Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Aside from the “all other things being equal” part, which conveniently you and the GOP ignore. So then you wonder why black folk won’t vote en masse for Ben Carson or women for Carly Fiorina. The sad part is you think you’ve put people on the left in a bind, but it never appears to work. So black folks are voting AGAINST black folks? They are judging a candidate by their beliefs? Imagine that. > [@](#): > > That must be frustrating ;). I’m a liberal Democrat, so no, it’s not frustrating. What’s frustrating is when my allies, like you, don’t acknowledge it. And you don’t see that the mindless idea that only a candidate of the same race of sex can represent someone has actually hurt minorities in the long run, as I explained. Maybe it was a good idea then, but it’s not working out now. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-women-should-vote-for-women/751392/142 "2016-04-12T17:19:22Z")
Here’s something interesting and indicative. On CNN’s front page right now, there’s a graphic touting Equal Pay Day. cite: [http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/160412110749-t1-gfx-gender-pay-gap-large-tease.jpg](http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/160412110749-t1-gfx-gender-pay-gap-large-tease.jpg) It’s a color-code map by state of the average rates of pay for women compared to men. With a few exceptions, the 90%-100% states are the blue states, and the red states are less than that to different degrees. Wonder what that could mean? ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-women-should-vote-for-women/751392/143 "2016-04-12T17:53:01Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > I believe that is a major reason for the GOP taking the House in the 1990s after 40 years of being in the minority. It was so effective that it took 30 years for them to do it. Man, they really played that game well ;). It may have also been a result of effectively nationalizing a Congressional race in response to President Clinton’s raising of tax rates and attempts (albeit unsuccessful) at universal health care, gays in the military, etc. The GOP may have tried to limit the left leaning black voters in Southern states, but at least those black voters have at least one representative looking out for their interests as opposed to none. > [@](#): > > Do you think states in the Deep South are looking out for their black citizens NOW? Hence the need for the VRA. > [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > So black folks are voting AGAINST black folks? They are judging a candidate by their beliefs? Imagine that. So you are really not understanding this thread at all apparently. In addition, you do realize the link in the OP cited studies that showed that women representatives advance women’s issues 3 times as much as male representatives right? Hence, “all else being equal” (that phrase again), voting for a woman rep will result in more of a focus on women’s issues. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-women-should-vote-for-women/751392/144 "2016-04-12T17:57:44Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > It was so effective that it took 30 years for them to do it. Man, they really played that game well ;). Well, yes, since reapportionment of the House only happens every ten years, it did take time. And the VRA was amended in 1982 to strengthen the effect of packing blacks into certain districts. > [@](#): > > It may have also been a result of effectively nationalizing a Congressional race in response to President Clinton’s raising of tax rates and attempts (albeit unsuccessful) at universal health care, gays in the military, etc. That too. I didn’t say it was the only factor. > [@](#): > > The GOP may have tried to limit the left leaning black voters in Southern states, but at least those black voters have at least one representative looking out for their interests as opposed to none. They might be better off with a majority of white liberals looking after their interests though. Not much you can do as a minority inside a minority party. Or better yet, both - more black reps, but not at the expense of the Democratic majority. > [@](#): > > Hence the need for the VRA. I didn’t say VRA wasn’t needed. But are you saying it has all worked out fine? > [@](#): > > So you are really not understanding this thread at all apparently. I understand it fine. You apparently don’t. Start with the title. > [@](#): > > you do realize the link in the OP cited studies that showed that women representatives advance women’s issues 3 times as much as male representatives right? Hence, “all else being equal” (that phrase again), voting for a woman rep will result in more of a focus on women’s issues Only if you vote based on odds. But since it’s stil possible for a woman to oppose women’s rights and a man to support them, voters usually simply judge each by their positions on the issues and not their gender. Which is not that difficult. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-women-should-vote-for-women/751392/145 "2016-04-12T18:07:20Z")
[Rights Law Deepens Political Rifts in North Carolina](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/12/us/rights-law-deepens-political-rifts-in-north-carolina.html) > [@](#): > > Mr. Sgro said that as the only person in the legislature who is openly gay, bisexual or transgender, he would be a vocal advocate of repealing the law. And he said that he would consider nothing short of a full repeal to be an acceptable fix. True, Sgro was appointed to fill out a term because the incumbent died. The principle is the same. Isn’t it amazing that any day’s news will contain examples that show why you small-minded WMSC’s are losing this argument? ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-women-should-vote-for-women/751392/146 "2016-04-12T18:18:59Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > [Rights Law Deepens Political Rifts in North Carolina](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/12/us/rights-law-deepens-political-rifts-in-north-carolina.html) > > True, Sgro was appointed to fill out a term because the incumbent died. The principle is the same. > > Isn’t it amazing that any day’s news will contain examples that show why you small-minded WMSC’s are losing this argument? So people who happen to be of the minority will advance issues that are important to that minority that majority individuals may not even consider? How shocking. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-women-should-vote-for-women/751392/147 "2016-04-12T18:29:48Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > Here’s something interesting and indicative. On CNN’s front page right now, there’s a graphic touting Equal Pay Day. > > cite: > [http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/160412110749-t1-gfx-gender-pay-gap-large-tease.jpg](http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/160412110749-t1-gfx-gender-pay-gap-large-tease.jpg) > > It’s a color-code map by state of the average rates of pay for women compared to men. With a few exceptions, the 90%-100% states are the blue states, and the red states are less than that to different degrees. > > Wonder what that could mean? Probably means that some innumerate journalist at CNN still believes the [pay gap myth](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/04/02/the-equal-pay-day-factoid-that-women-make-78-cents-for-every-dollar-earned-by-men/). That is embarassing. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-women-should-vote-for-women/751392/148 "2016-04-12T18:33:33Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Well, yes, since reapportionment of the House only happens every ten years, it did take time. Amazing way to stretch things. I’m going to claim that Ronald Reagan’s election directly led to Barack Obama. After all, it takes time. How was it then that there was such a massive change in Congressional makeup in the 1992 election and the 1994 election. Was there a massive increase in majority black districts? > [@](#): > > And the VRA was amended in 1982 to strengthen the effect of packing blacks into certain districts. Nope. Bob Dole’s addition to the amendment prevented any fears that a results test to Section 2 would result in any proportional representation in distractions. Litigation increased regarding Section 2 claims after the amendment, which seems to indicate that there was tons of discriminatory effects in district creation which had not been addressed prior (such as multimember districts designed to dilute the black vote). If anything the increased litigation indicated the need for increasing the voting power of African-Americans, and any changes that resulted were intended for that purpose. Whereas the status quo prior indicated a lack of voting power. > [@](#): > > I didn’t say VRA wasn’t needed. But are you saying it has all worked out fine? I think a nationwide pre-clearance standard should have been implemented (and I know there was discussion about that in 1982), but aside from that, it worked out quite well. > [@](#): > > I understand it fine. You apparently don’t. Start with the title. So apparently you only read the title of the thread. That would explain quite a bit. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-women-should-vote-for-women/751392/149 "2016-04-12T18:34:33Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > There is a known historical fix for this if you are a bashed minority. Vote for more people who look like you. Over time the bashing will end, often with the aid of people who don’t look like you because they will see the political advantage and maybe even the moral advantage. You might even wind up with a whole political party which is inherently against hate-bashing and so makes it a likely proposition to vote for anyone under that banner. Okay, so white women should vote for other white women over male minority candidates, because women are bashed and that’s what matters. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-women-should-vote-for-women/751392/150 "2016-04-12T18:34:55Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Probably means that some innumerate journalist at CNN still believes the [pay gap myth](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/04/02/the-equal-pay-day-factoid-that-women-make-78-cents-for-every-dollar-earned-by-men/). That is embarassing. Except that it’s not a myth. Even that article acknowledges that there is still a pay gap. So are you saying that there is just somehow a higher percentage of pregnant women in the red states? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-women-should-vote-for-women/751392/151 "2016-04-12T18:37:35Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Kansas has … the third best highway system in the country, [About Kansas and highways](http://ksnt.com/2016/04/10/bill-meant-to-redirect-highway-money-to-state-general-fund/?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link). > [@](#): > > It’s something Ward says Governor Sam Brownback has failed to do. > > “He’s taken two billion dollars out of the highway plan in his six year administration, that’s over a million dollars a day, there isn’t anyone who knows that isn’t going to have a terrible, negative impact on our roads and he hasn’t put anything back,” said Ward. Gee, I wonder why money needs to be taken out of highways to be put in the general fund? Real world news. What WMSC posters say. Which to believe? Which to believe? ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-women-should-vote-for-women/751392/152 "2016-04-12T18:37:40Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Probably means that some innumerate journalist at CNN still believes the [pay gap myth](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/04/02/the-equal-pay-day-factoid-that-women-make-78-cents-for-every-dollar-earned-by-men/). That is embarassing. From your link: > [@](#): > > We do not want to suggest there is no pay gap; in fact, just about every example above reported that there was some sort of gap in wages. A report by the American Association of University Women found that, after accounting for a variety of factors, including college major and occupation, there was an unexplained 7 percent gap one year after graduation. The gap then grew to 12 percent after 10 years. That is embarrassing. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-women-should-vote-for-women/751392/153 "2016-04-12T18:50:48Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Amazing way to stretch things. I’m going to claim that Ronald Reagan’s election directly led to Barack Obama. After all, it takes time. How was it then that there was such a massive change in Congressional makeup in the 1992 election and the 1994 election. Was there a massive increase in majority black districts? Really? You think that if a political trend takes time, it doesn’t exist? My claim isn’t just random like yours. There is a strong logical connection. > [@](#): > > Nope. Bob Dole’s addition to the amendment prevented any fears that a results test to Section 2 would result in any proportional representation in distractions. Litigation increased regarding Section 2 claims after the amendment, which seems to indicate that there was tons of discriminatory effects in district creation which had not been addressed prior (such as multimember districts designed to dilute the black vote). I didn’t say there were no discriminatory effects. I said the remedy had unintended consequences. > [@](#): > > If anything the increased litigation indicated the need for increasing the voting power of African-Americans, and any changes that resulted were intended for that purpose. Whereas the status quo prior indicated a lack of voting power. Sure. But voting power and actual political power are different things. Blacks may have increased their representation, but weakened their overall power in the process. > [@](#): > > I think a nationwide pre-clearance standard should have been implemented (and I know there was discussion about that in 1982), but aside from that, it worked out quite well. So blacks are doing okay now? > [@](#): > > So apparently you only read the title of the thread. That would explain quite a bit. I’m glad I was able to get you back on topic. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-women-should-vote-for-women/751392/154 "2016-04-12T18:51:57Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > From your link: > > That is embarrassing. Yes. I’m sorry tired of the claim that the pay gap is a myth. The gap that can’t be explained by normal factors is overestimated a great deal, but it still exists. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-women-should-vote-for-women/751392/155 "2016-04-12T19:11:38Z")
- so tired, not “sorry” tired. Don’t know where that came from. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-women-should-vote-for-women/751392/156 "2016-04-12T19:28:21Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > My claim isn’t just random like yours. There is a strong logical connection. Oh please. At this stage, I’m just going to say: cite? ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-women-should-vote-for-women/751392/157 "2016-04-12T19:37:41Z")
Btw, while you attempt to answer my previous question in the preceding post, recall that the vast majority of flipped seats in 1994 happened OUTSIDE the South, which was subject to pre-clearance requirements by the VRA. > [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > So blacks are doing okay now? Far better than in 1964. > [@](#): > > Sure. But voting power and actual political power are different things. Blacks may have increased their representation, but weakened their overall power in the process. How? If anything it appears that African-Americans have greater political power now than they did in previous decades. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-women-should-vote-for-women/751392/158 "2016-04-12T20:03:16Z")
But wait, there’s more… Here’s an article on a new book that bears on the sexism issue: [http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/everyday-sexism-book-arrives-gender-issue-takes-center-stage-2016-campaign](http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/everyday-sexism-book-arrives-gender-issue-takes-center-stage-2016-campaign) Granted, it’s anecdotal, but there are a _lot_ of anecdotes. And Bates draws some interesting conclusions. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-women-should-vote-for-women/751392/159 "2016-04-12T20:04:27Z")
I want to make something clear here, in case it isn’t already. I may be beating one particular drum, but I also agree with and fully subscribe to Exapno’s more general line. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2016, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-women-should-vote-for-women/751392/160 "2016-04-13T13:21:01Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Oh please. At this stage, I’m just going to say: cite? I didn’t say I had a source - it’s my hypothesis. But I’ll bet someone out there has looked into it. I will do a search. EDIT - took me just a few minutes to find something: > **[How the Voting Rights Act Hurts Democrats and Minorities](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/06/how-the-voting-rights-act-hurts-democrats-and-minorities/276893/)** > > Though conservatives hope the Supreme Court will strike part of the law this month, the 1965 act has become central to GOP control of the House. My point was that it’s a valid hypothesis. There’s no question that putting more blacks into certain districts takes them out of neighboring districts, and that this can benefit Republicans. It’s likely the black person representing the “black” district simply replaced a white Democrat, while some neighboring districts that were represented by white Demcorats with the help of black voters switch to the GOP. I’ll note that the Republicans now routinely sue using the VRA to try to pack more blacks into black districts. They sure seem to know what’s going on. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-women-should-vote-for-women/751392.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-women-should-vote-for-women/751392.md?page=9)