"Why women should vote for women."

[puddleglum]

@Exapno_Mapcase

And Kansas has a white governor. How is that working out? Hey, what about the white governor of Michigan? Or the legislatures in North Carolina, and Georgia, and Tennessee, and… Or Congress. Republicans control both houses. How many black Republicans are there? How is Congress working out?
Well, no. What I am saying is reality. Kansans wanted a governor with an insane theory about how government worked because they thought it would benefit them. Any minority could tell them that it wouldn’t because the lack of government priority had been used against them for so many years. Gay-hating straights are passing ignorant and unenforceable laws against LGBTs because that’s how they think. LGBTs would have to be insane themselves to think those people understand their issues.
Right. “Recognizing our common humanity” works so well that it spawned the needed Black Lives Matter activism and also the hatred-spewing whites who think that White Lives Matter is an equal proposition.

Getting more people into office who don’t think the way that people you are defending do will be better for the majority female, mostly non-white, increasingly genderfluid, and rapidly increasing non-religious future population. Not only will government be more representative of those groups, those elected leaders will be of any conceivable persuasion or genetics because they will recognize the diversity. We know what the opposition will look like. It will look like what it looks like now, except smaller and smaller and smaller until its power is taken completely away.

Kansas has lower unemployment than the national average, a lower crime rate than average, the third best highway system in the country, and higher test scores than the national average. If I were a white Kansan I would be pretty happy.OTOH if I were a black Detroiter I would be less happy.

[puddleglum]

@ISiddiqui

You say that as if it’s a point that ends the conversation. Sometimes double standards are ok. If a group is disadvantaged, a double standard which may help in equalizing them isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Basically, who cares if it’s a double standard? A white man voting for a white man because of his characteristics is voting to perpetuate his own privilege and power. A black man voting for a black man because his characteristics is voting to help overturn privilege and power structures which haven’t allowed black men to be in charge in the past. The intention is totally different and that’s totally ok. Yes, sometimes double standards can be good.

That is a distinction without a difference. The white person is voting for the white candidate because he thinks it will benefit white people like himself. The black person is voting for the black candidate because he thinks it will benefit black people like himself. Having double standards in a democracy that benefits minorities is not a sustainable equilibrium.

[puddleglum]

@Johnny_Ace

You’re looking for an absolute answer where there is none. Everything is dependent on where an individual woman’s political beliefs fall, how closely they relate to the two Dems, and how much she weights her own feminism.

I do not ignore or lessen the effect of political ideology/policy stands/etc. on the voting decision; however, I believe that feminism can and should be included in the calculus by women. I also believe that not including it for whatever reason is a mistake.

So you are saying women and other people should vote for whoever they like as an individual on a case by case basis.
Welcome to the correct side.

[Velocity]

@ISiddiqui

So what?

I won’t make assumptions about individual nationality here, but equal treatment - regardless of race, gender, etc. - is, or should be, a core American value.

[Johnny_Ace]

@puddleglum

So you are saying women and other people should vote for whoever they like as an individual on a case by case basis.
Welcome to the correct side.

I should rather say ALL WOMEN MUST VOTE FOR ONLY WOMEN!

Give me a break.

[Johnny_Ace]

@Velocity

It’s unequal treatment.

And what do you think SWMC’s are benefiting from as we speak?

Say it with me.

Unequal treatment.

[Exapno_Mapcase]

@Velocity

I won’t make assumptions about individual nationality here, but equal treatment - regardless of race, gender, etc. - is, or should be, a core American value.

Lots of things should be.

Exactly what do you do when they are not?

[ISiddiqui]

@puddleglum

That is a distinction without a difference. The white person is voting for the white candidate because he thinks it will benefit white people like himself. The black person is voting for the black candidate because he thinks it will benefit black people like himself. Having double standards in a democracy that benefits minorities is not a sustainable equilibrium.

White people are already privileged and on top of the power structure. Black people are decidedly not. It is a very, very different calculus. And, IMO, and acceptable distinction.

[ISiddiqui]

@Velocity

I won’t make assumptions about individual nationality here, but equal treatment - regardless of race, gender, etc. - is, or should be, a core American value.

And what happens when you have centuries of unequal treatment that privileges one group? In order to really have a chance of ‘equal treatment’ you have to reverse that unequal treatment. Otherwise, ‘equal treatment’ is simply a sham. You’ve probably heard of the saying of people who are born on 3rd base and feel as if they’ve hit a triple.

[puddleglum]

@ISiddiqui

White people are already privileged and on top of the power structure. Black people are decidedly not. It is a very, very different calculus. And, IMO, and acceptable distinction.

That is great news I will go tell the 19 milion white people living in poverty that they are on top of the power structure. I wonder if they will be more excited than the 700,000 white people in prison.
Of course someone else is going to have to break it to Obama and the other 35,000 black millionaires that they are on the bottom.

[ISiddiqui]

I’d be happy if you would evangelize for the truth of white privilege among poor whites. Maybe then they wouldn’t scoff at the advantages they have in American society simply based upon the color of their skin (what, they think they have it bad? Maybe they should compare their lot to similarly situated black people in poverty or jail - esp when it comes to getting a job when both of them apply for the same one). While you are at it, can I also get you to try to convince them that no, racism isn’t over?

[Exapno_Mapcase]

The veritable definition of bigotry is thinking that as long as one person of color has it better than one white it’s completely fair to be biased.

[Qin_Shi_Huangdi]

@ISiddiqui

I’d be happy if you would evangelize for the truth of white privilege among poor whites. Maybe then they wouldn’t scoff at the advantages they have in American society simply based upon the color of their skin (what, they think they have it bad? Maybe they should compare their lot to similarly situated black people in poverty or jail - esp when it comes to getting a job when both of them apply for the same one). While you are at it, can I also get you to try to convince them that no, racism isn’t over?

Will you perhaps then evangelize to the bourgeoisie of America (regardless of creed or colour) about class privileges and the reality of class warfare in this nation?

[Qin_Shi_Huangdi]

@Johnny_Ace

That’s a nice, fuzzy theory, but it fails in the crucible of reality. Perhaps in a century or two, when most people are able to live without racial/sexual/gender prejudice. And don’t delude yourself, the most progressive of people still have some prejudices along those lines, even if they consciously choose to ignore them.

Until then, in the absence of action otherwise, it’s status quo city.

Do you include class/socioeconomic prejudice among them?

[Johnny_Ace]

@Qin_Shi_Huangdi

Do you include class/socioeconomic prejudice among them?

Not workable. How many lower-class Representatives, Senators, and Presidents do you know of?

Also, one can change his/her socioeconomic level but not ancestry, sexuality only in rarish cases, and gender only with a lot of surgery and hormone treatments.

[Qin_Shi_Huangdi]

@Johnny_Ace

Not workable. How many lower-class Representatives, Senators, and Presidents do you know of?

And that’s part of the problem. We need more political representatives of working-class backgrounds just as we should want more women, black, Hispanic, homosexual etc. politicians.

Also, one can change his/her socioeconomic level but not ancestry, sexuality only in rarish cases, and gender only with a lot of surgery and hormone treatments.

Friedmanite nonsense. Socioeconomic mobility has been growing much more difficult in the past generation and class, even in the United States, is not correlated to income.

[Johnny_Ace]

@Qin_Shi_Huangdi

And that’s part of the problem. We need more political representatives of working-class backgrounds just as we should want more women, black, Hispanic, homosexual etc. politicians.

Yeahrite, another in the line of people trying to deliberately twist the thrust of the thread. Take a number.

Friedmanite nonsense. Socioeconomic mobility has been growing much more difficult in the past generation and class, even in the United States, is not correlated to income.

It’s ba-ack…

[ISiddiqui]

@Qin_Shi_Huangdi

Will you perhaps then evangelize to the bourgeoisie of America (regardless of creed or colour) about class privileges and the reality of class warfare in this nation?

That has what all to do with this thread? And no, I don’t subscribe to the ridiculous notion that all sexism (and racism for that matter) are merely subsets to class based distinctions.

[ISiddiqui]

Unless you are saying its ok for people to vote for working class candidates if they are working class - which I’m totally fine with.

[Qin_Shi_Huangdi]

@ISiddiqui

That has what all to do with this thread? And no, I don’t subscribe to the ridiculous notion that all sexism (and racism for that matter) are merely subsets to class based distinctions.

Well people were talking about racial discrimination even though that is not directly related to the topic. And while I certainly don’t think class is the be-all and end-all, I do think it is the primary problem and division of modern society.