# Why Won't FDA Test Herbs and Stuff? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 8, 2017, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-fda-test-herbs-and-stuff/786110 "2017-05-08T02:17:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jinx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Jinx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jinx)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-fda-test-herbs-and-stuff/786110/1 "2017-05-08T02:17:18Z")
In this era where Congress celebrates the killing off of Americans in need of their expensive medications, treatments, etc…why won’t the FDA start testing natural remedies? Is the FDA in the back pocket of Big Mamma Pharma? Is the FDA in on this one way or another and therefore denies any home remedies? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-fda-test-herbs-and-stuff/786110/2 "2017-05-08T02:31:28Z")
I suppose one could start by checking the [FDA’s own site for Questions and Answers on Dietary Supplements](https://www.fda.gov/food/dietarysupplements/usingdietarysupplements/ucm480069.htm). Weird notion, I know. > [@](#): > > In October 1994, the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act (DSHEA) was signed into law by President Clinton. Before this time, dietary supplements were subject to the same regulatory requirements as were other foods. This new law, which amended the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act, created a new regulatory framework for the safety and labeling of dietary supplements.Under DSHEA, a firm is responsible for determining that the dietary supplements it manufactures or distributes are safe and that any representations or claims made about them are substantiated by adequate evidence to show that they are not false or misleading. This means that dietary supplements do not need approval from FDA before they are marketed. Except in the case of a new dietary ingredient, where pre-market review for safety data and other information is required by law, a firm does not have to provide FDA with the evidence it relies on to substantiate safety or effectiveness before or after it markets its products. Also, manufacturers need to register themselves pursuant to the Bioterrorism Act with FDA before producing or selling supplements. In June, 2007, FDA published comprehensive regulations for Current Good Manufacturing Practices for those who manufacture, package or hold dietary supplement products. These regulations focus on practices that ensure the identity, purity, quality, strength and composition of dietary supplements. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-fda-test-herbs-and-stuff/786110/3 "2017-05-08T02:32:08Z")
**Moderator Note** > [@Jinx](#): > > In this era where Congress celebrates the killing off of Americans in need of their expensive medications, treatments, etc. You’ve got a perfectly valid factual question here. Let’s not muddy it up with political commentary. Keep the politics out of GQ and focus on the facts, please. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-fda-test-herbs-and-stuff/786110/4 "2017-05-08T02:33:06Z")
Supplements are exempt. Thank [Orrin Hatch.](https://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/06/opinion/the-politics-of-fraudulent-dietary-supplements.html) > [@](#): > > **To understand how we got here, you have to go back to 1994, when Senator Orrin G. Hatch of Utah midwifed through Congress a new industry protected from all but minimal regulation. It is also an industry that would make many of his closest associates and family members rich.** In turn, they’ve rewarded him with sizable campaign contributions. > > **Even though serious illnesses, and some deaths are on the rise from misuse of these supplements, Hatch is determined to keep regulators at bay.** “I am committed to protect this industry and the integrity of its products,” he told a gathering of potency pill-pushers and the like in Utah last fall. > > In the past, Hatch has been remarkably blunt about helping his family and friends in the fake drug trade. “I do whatever they ask me to do many times because they’ve never asked me to do anything that is improper,” Hatch said in 2011.\*\* He was referring to the firm of his son, Scott Hatch, a longtime lobbyist for the supplement industry.\*\* ---
**Author:** ![Jinx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Jinx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jinx)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-fda-test-herbs-and-stuff/786110/5 "2017-05-08T02:41:12Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > **Moderator Note** > > You’ve got a perfectly valid factual question here. Let’s not muddy it up with political commentary. Keep the politics out of GQ and focus on the facts, please. My apologies. ---
**Author:** ![Jinx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Jinx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jinx)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-fda-test-herbs-and-stuff/786110/6 "2017-05-08T02:44:26Z")
Running Coach, as I understand your quote, am I correct to say I’m looking at it all backwards? It’s not the FDA after all? Very interesting! ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-fda-test-herbs-and-stuff/786110/7 "2017-05-08T03:00:06Z")
> [@Jinx](#): > > Running Coach, as I understand your quote, am I correct to say I’m looking at it all backwards? It’s not the FDA after all? Very interesting! Yes. For obvious reasons, the sellers of complementary medical products have more to lose than to gain by having their therapeutic effectiveness independently assessed. The number that would be validated (and the revenue from the sales of those products) would likely be vastly exceeded by the number that would be invalidated (and the revenue from _those_ sales). ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-fda-test-herbs-and-stuff/786110/8 "2017-05-08T03:02:30Z")
Having worked briefly in the supplement industry, the shit they get away with due to lack of regulatory oversight would horrify you. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-fda-test-herbs-and-stuff/786110/9 "2017-05-08T03:16:11Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > Having worked briefly in the supplement industry, the shit they get away with due to lack of regulatory oversight would horrify you. Oooo, I like being horrified! Are you able to divulge any details? ---
**Author:** ![lazybratsche](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ba8739/32.png) [@lazybratsche](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lazybratsche)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-fda-test-herbs-and-stuff/786110/10 "2017-05-08T03:52:05Z")
If you like your horror served with spasms of rage, consider this case of a [Hyland’s homoepathic “teething remedy”](https://arstechnica.com/science/2016/10/fda-homeopathic-teething-gels-may-have-killed-10-babies-sickened-400/) which contained deadly nightshade in decidedly non-homoepathic quantities. Ten children died, and hundreds more were hospitalized because of the negligence of a company that sold magic poison water. Ten children died because the Hatch Act prevented the FDA from making sure the magic poison water was made correctly in the first place. Ten children died because the Hatch Act prevented the FDA from doing proper safety testing on magic poison water. Ten children died because the Hatch Act prevented the FDA from recalling deadly magic poison water in a timely manner. Countless people have died and suffered because the Hatch Act forces the FDA to allow the sale of magic poison water. And now I have to have a stiff drink, because I’m too enraged to go to sleep after re-reading this case. ---
**Author:** ![GMANCANADA](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gmancanada/32/2837_2.png) [@GMANCANADA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GMANCANADA)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-fda-test-herbs-and-stuff/786110/11 "2017-05-08T04:13:32Z")
As noted by others, contrary to the OP’s premise, most of the supplement / natural remedy market is B.S. and not based on any scientific studies and most do nothing to help health (just snake oil & whoo). I’m sure big Pharma would _love_ it if the supplement industry was held to the same efficacy standards they are and products removed if they didn’t work. The “natural remedy” section would be pretty much empty. In the podcast “Skeptics Guide to the Universe” they advocate science & evidence based approach to medicine and they did a recent interview with Acting FTC Chairman Maureen Ohlhausen and asked her about regulation around the supplement / natural cure industry etc: > **[Episode #605 | The Skeptics Guide to the Universe](https://www.theskepticsguide.org/podcasts/episode-605)** > > News Items Super Bowl Drones GM Wheat Security Chips Who's That Noisy Answer to last week: Baritone Trombone Interview with Maureen Ohlhausen https://www.ftc.gov/about-ftc/biographies/maureen-k-ohlhausen Its worth a listen if you’re curious about this topic. Although you should listen yourself, as I recall, the FDA’s view is that as long as there’s no evidence of _harm_ to the end user by product usage, they don’t worry so much about specific claims. They seem to take a “buyer beware” view. If you’re dumb enough to believe in the snake oil treatments without looking yourself at the evidence of efficacy behind them, then “a fool and his money…” I don’t think the SGU were too happy with that answer, since they feel the FDA should play a more active roll in protecting consumers. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-fda-test-herbs-and-stuff/786110/12 "2017-05-08T04:49:56Z")
If an herb actually has a medical benefit, they wouldn’t market or approve the _plant_ as a treatment. Instead, scientists would identify the active compound in the plant, find a way to synthesize it, test for efficacy and side effects, then go through the FDA to get it approved as a drug. That’s how many drugs are developed. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-fda-test-herbs-and-stuff/786110/13 "2017-05-08T06:07:42Z")
Consumer Reports had a lengthy article about dietary supplements in their July, 2016 issue. (You can probably find that in your local library.) As I recall, many of them tested as containing far less of the actual supplement than the label claimed. And they had a list of a dozen or so very common ones that they said were harmful and should always be avoided. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-fda-test-herbs-and-stuff/786110/14 "2017-05-08T06:24:12Z")
> [@Jinx](#): > > Running Coach, as I understand your quote, am I correct to say I’m looking at it all backwards? It’s not the FDA after all? Very interesting! Pretty much. There’s absolutely nothing _stopping_ the makers of supplements, herbal remedies, and “alternative medicine” from seeking FDA approval. The fact is that most of them don’t, because seeking FDA approval is a costly process that may lead to a very public demonstration that their product doesn’t do what it claims to do, or indeed [doesn’t contain the compounds they claim it contains at all](http://www.healthyfoodhouse.com/fda-finds-majority-of-herbal-supplements-at-gnc-walmart-walgreens-and-target-dont-contain-what-they-claim-instead-cheap-fillers-like-wheat-and-soy-powder/)! Rather, supplements and many “alternative health” cures have an explicit regulatory loophole carved out for them, to ensure that they don’t have to go through the FDA. Because, you know, why _should_ alternative medicine be subject to the same rigorous testing process as real medicine? I guarantee you that if actual pharmaceutical companies pulled the kind of shit supplement-manufacturers pulled, people would be out for blood. > [@scr4](#): > > If an herb actually has a medical benefit, they wouldn’t market or approve the _plant_ as a treatment. Instead, scientists would identify the active compound in the plant, find a way to synthesize it, test for efficacy and side effects, then go through the FDA to get it approved as a drug. That’s how many drugs are developed. [Relevant article](https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-plant-vs-pharmaceutical-false-dichotomy/). ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-fda-test-herbs-and-stuff/786110/15 "2017-05-08T06:44:00Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > If an herb actually has a medical benefit, they wouldn’t market or approve the _plant_ as a treatment. Instead, scientists would identify the active compound in the plant, find a way to synthesize it, test for efficacy and side effects, then go through the FDA to get it approved as a drug. That’s how many drugs are developed. “You know what they call alternative medicine that’s been proved to work? - Medicine.” - _Tim Minchin_ (Sometimes, synthesising a medicinal plant compound is more hassle than just farming the plant and extracting the compound - especially in cases where the plant produces it quite abundantly - Thymol is probably a good example of this. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-fda-test-herbs-and-stuff/786110/16 "2017-05-08T08:00:45Z")
It wasn’t just Hatch - R. Tom Harkin - D Iowa was in full cahoots. You’ll never guess were most of the supplement companies donate campaign funds? Okay, maybe you will. > **[Nutritional & Dietary Supplements: Top Recipients | OpenSecrets](https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/recips.php?ind=H4600&recipdetail=S&sortorder=U&mem=Y&cycle=1994)** > > Our user-friendly database of campaign contributions by industries and interest groups will help you learn how these interests gain political influence in American politics. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-fda-test-herbs-and-stuff/786110/17 "2017-05-08T08:28:04Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > Consumer Reports had a lengthy article about dietary supplements in their July, 2016 issue. (You can probably find that in your local library.) > > As I recall, **many of them tested as containing far less of the actual supplement than the label claimed**. And they had a list of a dozen or so very common ones that they said were harmful and should always be avoided. So called herbal remedies and their kin, get away with selling stuff that doesn’t harm, but doesn’t do good (except as a placebo) either, so long as there are people who believe the snake oil salesmen. What I don’t understand is how, in a country as litigious and regulated as the USA, any company can get away with making false claims about ingredients or about effects. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-fda-test-herbs-and-stuff/786110/18 "2017-05-08T09:49:22Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > What I don’t understand is how, in a country as litigious and regulated as the USA, any company can get away with making false claims about ingredients or about effects. Weasel words “_ **May be** _ effective against…”; “_ **Believed to be** _ beneficial to…” ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-fda-test-herbs-and-stuff/786110/19 "2017-05-08T10:01:19Z")
Unless you die or are seriously injured, why or how could you sue? You have to prove it was the supplement. These companies have lawyers, lots of them, deep pockets too. And legislators, don’t forget them. Didn’t get the proper effect? Prove you followed direction precisely, with data, blood/tissue samples, witnesses, etc… [ironic that the companies themselves aren’t proving it either]. Don’t forget to read _all the fine print on the labels or in the ads or on the web site_. Good luck without a law degree. A side note, JNJ had another suit about talcum powder causing cancer go against them in the St. Louis area. There and some parts of Texas are known as being highly favorable to injury suits and patent trolling. JNJ has prevailed in other areas of the country. I expect JNJ will prevail on appeal. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-fda-test-herbs-and-stuff/786110/20 "2017-05-08T11:10:33Z")
> [@GMANCANADA](#): > > As noted by others, contrary to the OP’s premise, most of the supplement / natural remedy market is B.S. and not based on any scientific studies and most do nothing to help health (just snake oil & whoo). I’m sure big Pharma would _love_ it if the supplement industry was held to the same efficacy standards they are and products removed if they didn’t work. The “natural remedy” section would be pretty much empty. Ethical medical scientists would maybe love it, but Big Pharma and Big Alt med are to a large degree the same companies. This way they get to make money from both. Regulate the natural remedies and they lose a lot more revenue than they’ll gain from people switching to functioning remedies. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-fda-test-herbs-and-stuff/786110.md?page=2)