# Why Won't FDA Test Herbs and Stuff? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 8, 2017, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-fda-test-herbs-and-stuff/786110 "2017-05-08T02:17:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-fda-test-herbs-and-stuff/786110/41 "2017-05-08T19:53:43Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Rather, supplements and many “alternative health” cures have an explicit regulatory loophole carved out for them, to ensure that they don’t have to go through the FDA. Because, you know, why _should_ alternative medicine be subject to the same rigorous testing process as real medicine? I guarantee you that if actual pharmaceutical companies pulled the kind of shit supplement-manufacturers pulled, people would be out for blood. Which is how we’ve ended up with a regulated Pharma. Barely 100 years ago, they were exactly as regulated as the homeopathy people are now - and much of what they sold was exactly as good. The history of Pharma regulations is paved with disasters. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-fda-test-herbs-and-stuff/786110/42 "2017-05-08T20:12:20Z")
> [@Jinx](#): > > In this era where Congress celebrates the killing off of Americans in need of their expensive medications, treatments, etc…why won’t the FDA start testing natural remedies? Is the FDA in the back pocket of Big Mamma Pharma? Is the FDA in on this one way or another and therefore denies any home remedies? because if natural remedies/“alternative medicine” are shown to be effective and safe, they _become medicine._ Aspirin was once a natural remedy. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-fda-test-herbs-and-stuff/786110/43 "2017-05-08T20:20:36Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Also one I heard last Friday - “has been clinically studied in the treatment of (I think) male testosterone deficiency”. Oddly enough, they didn’t mention the results of the clinical studies. > > Regards, > Shodan [“Are you STD-free?” “Hey, don’t worry, I was tested.” “And what were the results?” “Um… Don’t worry. I was tested.”](https://xkcd.com/1096/) ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-fda-test-herbs-and-stuff/786110/44 "2017-05-08T20:22:31Z")
Yes - I don’t know about the USA, but for a decade or more now, Canada has been flooded with Cold-FX, an apparent non-medicinal remedy for cold and flu or their symptoms or something. > **[Why Cold-FX is too good to be true](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health-and-fitness/health/why-cold-fx-is-too-good-to-be-true/article27279862/)** > > Studies offer no proof that the top-selling natural health product in Canada reduces cold and flu symptoms when paired with the flu shot The basic problem is that herbal supplements are basically made from herbs. As the jokes go about home growing marijuana, the yield can vary tremendously. So how do you study something where the active ingredients could vary greatly, and perhaps are not even known? As others point out, if the active ingredients can be isolated, studied, and proven to be effective - then they are sold as medicines. If they can’t, or it’s suspected the real benefits are close to nil, it makes more sense to keep grinding up snake-oil-plant leaves and seeds and selling them with weasel words. After all, if one study hints that there an insignificant but positive value, it can be weaseled to say it works wonders. “Study has show it can relieve the symptoms and duration of colds”. Doesn’t say by how much. The problem is that deadly nightshade, for example, is just as much a herb as is garlic or pepper - I just wouldn’t put too much on my food. Just because it wasn’t concocted in a lab does not mean it’s safe. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-fda-test-herbs-and-stuff/786110/45 "2017-05-08T21:37:44Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > Aspirin was once a natural remedy. Nitpick: aspirin is acetylsalicylic acid, which is not a naturally occurring compound. Willow and other plants containing salicylic acid were once a natural remedy because they possess similar therapeutic properties to modern aspirin, but we didn’t just extract aspirin from tree bark or anything. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-fda-test-herbs-and-stuff/786110/46 "2017-05-09T14:11:40Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Which is how we’ve ended up with a regulated Pharma. Barely 100 years ago, they were exactly as regulated as the homeopathy people are now - and much of what they sold was exactly as good. The history of Pharma regulations is paved with disasters. “Elixir of Sulfanilamide” - yup. [https://www.fda.gov/aboutfda/whatwedo/history/productregulation/sulfanilamidedisaster/](https://www.fda.gov/aboutfda/whatwedo/history/productregulation/sulfanilamidedisaster/) > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Nitpick: aspirin is acetylsalicylic acid, which is not a naturally occurring compound. Willow and other plants containing salicylic acid were once a natural remedy because they possess similar therapeutic properties to modern aspirin, but we didn’t just extract aspirin from tree bark or anything. Digitalis, then. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-fda-test-herbs-and-stuff/786110/47 "2017-05-09T14:27:39Z")
To broaden the question a little, the OP should also be aware that the National Institutes of Health includes an organization dedicated to studying alternative therapies, called the National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine. It’s charge is to hold trials of everything from acupuncture to eating dirt pills, and evaluate whether there’s value in any of those treatments. Quite famously, the Center has spent [nearly $3 billion](http://www.nbcnews.com/id/31190909/) during its lifetime and has essentially found nothing important or useful. Even more famously, that really pissed off the Center’s top patron, former Senator Tom Harkin, who once commented: “One of the purposes of this center was to investigate and validate alternative approaches. Quite frankly, I must say publicly that it has fallen short. I think quite frankly that in this center and in the office previously before it, most of its focus has been on disproving things rather than seeking out and approving.” [Cite.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Center_for_Complementary_and_Integrative_Health#As_NCCAM) ---
**Author:** ![2Bits](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/e95f7d/32.png) [@2Bits](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2Bits)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-fda-test-herbs-and-stuff/786110/48 "2017-05-09T14:47:49Z")
Do most folks who take herbal supplements (and/ or supplement with vitamins and minerals, for that matter) actually _want_ factual evidence of efficacy? I think the industry depends on faith and the placebo effect. ---
**Author:** ![MikeS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MikeS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeS)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-fda-test-herbs-and-stuff/786110/49 "2017-05-09T20:08:08Z")
> [@lazybratsche](#): > > If you like your horror served with spasms of rage, consider this case of a [Hyland’s homoepathic “teething remedy”](https://arstechnica.com/science/2016/10/fda-homeopathic-teething-gels-may-have-killed-10-babies-sickened-400/) which contained deadly nightshade in decidedly non-homoepathic quantities. … > > Countless people have died and suffered because the Hatch Act forces the FDA to allow the sale of magic poison water. > [@lazybratsche](#): > > My mistake, I was referring to the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act of 1994, and all subsequent laws and regulations. For which we have Orrin Hatch to blame, though you’re right that it’s not colloquially referred to as “the Hatch Act”. Further nitpick: As far as I can tell the 1994 act didn’t deal with homeopathic remedies, but rather “dietary supplements”. Homeopathy’s protections under federal law go back all the way to the FDA’s inception, with the [Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act of 1938](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Food,_Drug,_and_Cosmetic_Act), and its sponsor [Royal Copeland](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_S._Copeland), purveyor of magic poison water. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-fda-test-herbs-and-stuff/786110/50 "2017-05-09T20:57:21Z")
Note: Never buy your drugs at “Herbs and Stuff”. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-fda-test-herbs-and-stuff/786110/51 "2017-05-09T21:55:04Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Note: Never buy your drugs at “Herbs and Stuff”. :smack: Don’t buy your stuff there either. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-fda-test-herbs-and-stuff/786110/52 "2017-05-09T22:05:35Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Note: Never buy your drugs at “Herbs and Stuff”. :smack: There’s a local pot store where I live called Herb and Legends. I thought it was clever. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2017, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-fda-test-herbs-and-stuff/786110/54 "2017-05-10T22:53:40Z")
I believe the herby-stuff thing [St. John’s Wort](http://www.rxlist.com/st_johns_wort/supplements.htm) (RXlist cite) has made into the government approved side, if you’re talking about the German Government, insofar as it’s effectivity against depression has been studied there the most, and controlled preparations of some sort have passed muster. I recall going through one of my periodic find-the-right-medication-cocktail periods with my psychiatrist where he told me about the plant, and all the other herby stuff (Chinese oogy-boogy- powders, whatever) with valid therapeutic effects: it’s about dosing, as far as he was concerned. One day the plant might grow on the shady side of the tree, or have different nutrients, etc. etc. and be different than the next one down the line. He wouldn’t prescribe something that did not have repeatable characteristics at the most basic level. ETA: What’s a wort? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2017, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-fda-test-herbs-and-stuff/786110/55 "2017-05-10T23:06:33Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > … > ETA: What’s a wort? Here, let me wiki that for you: [List of wort plants - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wort_plants) As a word-o-phile you’ll appreciate this. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2017, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-fda-test-herbs-and-stuff/786110/56 "2017-05-11T03:33:09Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > If an herb actually has a medical benefit, they wouldn’t market or approve the _plant_ as a treatment. Instead, scientists would identify the active compound in the plant, find a way to synthesize it, test for efficacy and side effects, then go through the FDA to get it approved as a drug. That’s how many drugs are developed. The official term for that is “pharmacognosy”. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2022, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-fda-test-herbs-and-stuff/786110/57 "2022-08-26T03:02:06Z")
And a recent example of this failure to regulate: > **[An herbal remedy caused the death of CA congressman’s wife](https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/08/an-herbal-remedy-caused-the-death-of-ca-congressmans-wife/)** > > A bit of undigested white mulberry leaf was found in the woman's stomach. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2022, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-fda-test-herbs-and-stuff/786110/58 "2022-08-26T19:55:07Z")
“People aren’t the property of the state; they are free souls entitled to make their own health care decisions.” - Congressman Tom McClintock (husband of Lori McClintock), 9/9/21, explaining his opposition to “forced Covid shots”. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2022, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-fda-test-herbs-and-stuff/786110/59 "2022-08-26T20:55:30Z")
Mulberry leaves, and mulberry fruit, are not poisonous. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2022, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-fda-test-herbs-and-stuff/786110/60 "2022-08-26T23:39:15Z")
All parts of the white mulberry with the exception of ripe fruit are at least mildly toxic. A large enough dose could cause significant illness. > **[Are Mulberries Poisonous? - ProGardenTips](https://www.progardentips.com/are-mulberries-poisonous/)** > > Est. reading time: 5 minutes Another question that’s been raised is whether there were other components to whatever supplement she was taking, including ones not listed on the label - a common problem, especially in imported supplements. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-fda-test-herbs-and-stuff/786110/61 "2022-08-27T00:00:27Z")
People usually pick and eat the ripe fruit; I can’t recall seeing anyone stuff a bunch of fresh leaves into his or her mouth, but people do steep the leaves in boiling water. Perhaps that makes a difference? There are also guides recommending to eat the twigs. But if this is a matter of the dose making the poison, how many leaves is she supposed to have eaten? > [@Jackmannii](#): > > Another question that’s been raised is whether there were other components to whatever supplement she was taking, including ones not listed on the label - a common problem, especially in imported supplements. If someone I knew died after taking a mystery supplement, I would be most curious what was actually in it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-fda-test-herbs-and-stuff/786110.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-fda-test-herbs-and-stuff/786110.md?page=4)