# Why won't my roommate go away? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 19, 2003, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-my-roommate-go-away/156009 "2003-02-19T00:31:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2003, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-my-roommate-go-away/156009/21 "2003-02-19T16:12:42Z")
Get the landlady involved. At a bare minimum, **when** (not if!) you change the locks, the landlady will probably need the new key. We’re not going for the minimum, though. The landlady might be willing to help you throw the bumette out. Now for the IANAL… the roommate said she was breaking the lease. I presume that there is no written lease, effectively **Heloise** is informally subletting to the roommate. Still, the roommate said she was leaving. This might change how tenancy law applies. Get thee to a lawyer. And may I add a lesson from my own experience: When roommate moves out, if she did her own packing, go through ALL of your stuff. Keep good records of anything that suddenly vanished. In my case, a few minor items went missing, and showed up at the person’s new place. (Please see my post in the “most inane things you’ve had stolen” thread.) Good luck, **Heloise**. ---
**Author:** ![LordVor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/90ced4/32.png) [@LordVor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LordVor)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2003, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-my-roommate-go-away/156009/22 "2003-02-19T18:47:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by AcidKid \* > \*\*A lodger, or roomer, is someone who rents a room in a house that you own and live in. \*\* IANAL. Since she doesn’t own the house, I don’t see how the roomate fits this legal definition of a lodger, or how this site applies in this case. -lv ---
**Author:** ![Heloise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e36b37/32.png) [@Heloise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heloise)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2003, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-my-roommate-go-away/156009/23 "2003-02-19T18:51:29Z")
Wow, thank you for the research, **AcidKid** , and for the advice, **Scuba\_Ben** , et al. She is definitely not on the lease, she’s a sublet. And, if things get down to it, I can call my landlady, who will take no time at all in calling the police. She hates the girl. There was more than just the laundry incident that made my landlady want me to get rid of her; the girl has no respect for others or their property. And yes, I know I’m probably going to end up with stuff missing. Besides her whole “borrowing” thing, I found out from one of her “friends” that she is a little thief. I’m just hoping that it’s nothing major. Once she’s gone, I never want to have contact with her again. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2003, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-my-roommate-go-away/156009/24 "2003-02-19T19:19:36Z")
As said, you don’t own the house and she isn’t on the lease. I seriously doubt that someone that disorganized is going to sue you. Put her stuff outside. Ultimately you’ll be doing her a favor with the reality check. ---
**Author:** ![Heloise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e36b37/32.png) [@Heloise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heloise)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2003, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-my-roommate-go-away/156009/25 "2003-02-19T20:03:38Z")
The plot thickens. I went into her room to see if she’d started packing, and she hasn’t. But, I also saw the note that I’d written her. Beside it, were her notes: Renter’s rights. 30 days to evict. You can’t change the locks. So, she’s been talking to someone. I called up my landlady and she said, “I wish you hadn’t given her that note. It establishes her as a roommate instead of as a guest.” So, I said, “Well, I know where the note is. Should I take it back?” She said definitely, so I did, and now I have the note back. I had a nice talk with the landlady who said I was going to have to start taking notes on this girl, take a picture of her room, etc. One other point to make is that this girl has not paid the full rent for February. She is basically living off the security deposit. God forbid if she has broken something besides the screen door. I’m going to tell her today that since I can’t evict her, she must pay the remainder of the rent for the month and give me something in writing that says specifically when she is going to leave. I already cleared this with my landlady. ---
**Author:** ![BoBettie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4af34b/32.png) [@BoBettie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BoBettie)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2003, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-my-roommate-go-away/156009/26 "2003-02-19T20:18:03Z")
I agree with Opal- what possible reason could she have to return if all of her shit is gone from there? Box it up, move it out, Rawhide. ---
**Author:** ![Bongmaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Bongmaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bongmaster)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2003, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-my-roommate-go-away/156009/27 "2003-02-19T20:26:51Z")
So you have this abusive, selfish, user-thief and she won’t leave your place? Her name is not on any legal documents? And she sounds like a plain old asshole. Really simple here. Give her a final warning (out by tomorrow morning say), wait till she leaves, uncerimonously place her belongings on the curb and change the locks. Legal? Nope. Will you actually get in trouble here? I really, really doubt it. She is so clearly in the moral wrong that she does not deserve any more special treatment. If she had come to you and perhaps requested nicely to make some other arrangement then maybe, but it doesn’t look like she even bothered. You have been more than tolerant and she deserves whatever her silly behavior has earned her. ---
**Author:** ![Diane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2acd7d/32.png) [@Diane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diane)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2003, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-my-roommate-go-away/156009/28 "2003-02-19T20:32:50Z")
A few years ago my brother had the same problem with a girl who was subletting from him. Here is the [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=6513&highlight=brother+rent) I wrote at the time - Unfortunately, she had enough experience in squatting that she knew how far she could push the tenants law. It took him almost a year and more than a few court appearances to finally get rid of her. I am not sure how the law differs in California, but Utah law is clearly for the renter. My brother would file a legal eviction notice to have her out within a certain time period but when that date arrived and she still wasn’t out, another law would go into effect and she would be allowed to stay for an additional period of time. Time and time again, she would ask the court for extensions and procedures would be delayed for 2 or 3 more months. He could not force her to leave during that period. At one point, he put a new lock on the door and put her things in the front yard but was threatened with criminal action for denying her access to her home (although she was under eviction notice and hadn’t paid rent in months). He was forced to remove the lock and bring her things back into the house. I won’t go into the long horror story, including property theft that couldn’t be proven. The scary thing about it all was that she never had to pay court cost, never hired an attorney, she just didn’t leave. When things came down to the wire, she would just file an extension with the courts. Finally, she left but not after living rent free for almost a year. It was a total nightmare. The legal system sucks. My unsolicited advice would be to make her living situation such a totally living hell that she is busting the door down trying to get out of there. The sooner the better. If California law is anything like Utah, you will just be spinning your wheels by going through eviction procedures. ---
**Author:** ![Heloise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e36b37/32.png) [@Heloise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heloise)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2003, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-my-roommate-go-away/156009/29 "2003-02-19T20:37:43Z")
**Diane** , I think I would either kill her or move out myself before allowing that to happen. I’m going to do a bit more research and find out what my other options are. She is the kind that would probably try to sue if I moved her things, so I need to find out if it’s legal to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Diane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2acd7d/32.png) [@Diane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diane)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2003, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-my-roommate-go-away/156009/30 "2003-02-19T20:54:03Z")
I hate packing and moving - I vote for killing her. 😉 Seriously, good luck with it all. What a pain in the ass. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2003, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-my-roommate-go-away/156009/31 "2003-02-19T21:11:52Z")
Well, if you can’t put a new lock on the front door, put a new one on the bathroom door. See how long she hangs around then. ---
**Author:** ![ataraxy22](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ataraxy22/32/307_2.png) [@ataraxy22](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ataraxy22)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2003, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-my-roommate-go-away/156009/32 "2003-02-19T21:24:26Z")
Just a bit of advice, but if you haven’t done so already, you probaly should hide any valuable jewelry and the like you have. Somebody like your, ahh, guest, who would the way she does, may not have any moral qualms about stealing something from you to get back at you for kicking her out. I had a roommate similar to this once…quite an odd bird. He threw away a chair (!) of mine when he moved out! ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2003, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-my-roommate-go-away/156009/33 "2003-02-19T21:35:06Z")
I like the lock on the bathroom door idea. Do that. And take the door off her bedroom. Start playing loud music all night, and basically make things horrible for her. Remove your dishes to a friend’s house for a while. Empty the fridge. Lock up the toilet paper. She is soooo using you and you ABSOLUTELY MUST NOT LET IT CONTINUE. ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2003, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-my-roommate-go-away/156009/34 "2003-02-19T21:36:35Z")
I just had an idea. Since Roommate From Hell (RFH) said she was moving out, breaking the informal lease, etc., etc., then the old lease is ended. So how about this idea (Dopers, please review & comment): Inform RFH that since she is insisting that she is a sub-tenant, and she broke the previous informal lease, you are now putting her on a week-to-week lease. (IIRC, a month-to-month lease means that the lease lasts for one month, then automatically renews. Chop the time frame down to one week.) And the new rent is 10% over the old agreement’s weekly rate. And the rent goes up 10% **per week**. And then have her SIGN a contract – and include a statement that, oh, confirms your security interest in collecting payment, and in event of default she agrees in advance to a garnish of wages, a lien on any assets she might have (does she have a car?), anything else you can think of. Include a provision where she pays all expenses of collecting overdue rent, such as collection agency fees, court costs, legal bills, etc, etc. In short, make the terms so onerous – and hopefully semi-enforcable – that she’ll scram for fear you might actually enforce some of this. And if RFH doesn’t want to sign? Fine. Her lease is up. It’s time for her to move out or accept the new terms. Let her know in the strongest terms you can that if she is still there 24 hours later, you’ll assume she agrees to the new lease, and you’ll be collecting the week’s rent. IN CASH. No excuses. Is this legal? Good question. Will RFH fight it? It’ll cost her. So, people, is my idea anywhere near feasible? I’m sure it needs some rewrites. And to pre-empt a comment: Don’t expect to see one cent more from RFH. Going back to my experience, my RFH had moved out, and was slowly paying back what he owed me. Then a big check from him bounced. I flipped out, and threatened small claims. Within a few weeks, he was on the run, never to be heard from again. (And he skipped out on the rent to _that_ place, too! We sold off what he left behind to pay part of his defaulted rent.) ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2003, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-my-roommate-go-away/156009/35 "2003-02-19T22:00:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by OpalCat \* > \*\*I like the lock on the bathroom door idea. Do that. And take the door off her bedroom. Start playing loud music all night, and basically make things horrible for her. Remove your dishes to a friend’s house for a while. Empty the fridge. Lock up the toilet paper. She is soooo using you and you ABSOLUTELY MUST NOT LET IT CONTINUE. \*\* That’s pretty much what I was going to say had the hamsters not decided to take a break at the same moment I hit submit. The following is my previously attempted reply in its entirety. Play hardball, starting with the kitchen. She’s been using your dishes? Move 'em to your room along with anything else of yours she’s been using or stuff that you don’t mind walking out with her. Get some temporary storage if there’s not enough space in your room for everything. Secure your door with a padlock when you’re not home. If that doesn’t work, start having your utilities temporarily shut off, telephone first if possible and if her phone is in your name. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2003, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-my-roommate-go-away/156009/36 "2003-02-19T22:11:53Z")
Oh yes! have the utilities shut off! ---
**Author:** ![Diane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2acd7d/32.png) [@Diane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diane)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2003, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-my-roommate-go-away/156009/37 "2003-02-19T22:27:28Z")
I’m with the others suggesting locking up the dishes, etc., but you might want to check with someone first regarding California law before you shut off utilities or lock up certain areas. My old thread that I linked to explains the penalty my brother would have received ($5000.00 fine) had he placed a lock on his garage, even after his ex roomies were stealing things from it. Lowlife slackers really do have the advantage over landlords. ---
**Author:** ![Spacegirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47774/32.png) [@Spacegirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spacegirl)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2003, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-my-roommate-go-away/156009/38 "2003-02-19T22:43:55Z")
Just a question, how can this girl have any rights if she hasn’t signed anything? As far as the OP is concerned, can’t this girl be tresspassing? ---
**Author:** ![Heloise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e36b37/32.png) [@Heloise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heloise)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2003, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-my-roommate-go-away/156009/39 "2003-02-19T23:12:27Z")
**BluMoon** , no. I called the police. Since she has established residency here, I can’t do anything except go to court and get an eviction notice. I have a great apartment that I used to be able to afford on the job I had before I was laid off. It has two full bathrooms (one in her room) so locking my bathroom would have no effect on her. Also, my last roommate took off and left his fridge, so I let her use it. Unless I want to put all her food in my fridge (she’s a very heavy eater and has lots of food), I would just be cutting off my nose, etc. **Opalcat** , as good as those ideas sound, I really do have the RFH. Most of the time, I’m the one telling her to turn the music down so that my neighbors won’t complain against _me_. About the only thing that I can do to take care of myself is make sure she doesn’t try to take some of my not very cheap kitchen toys, computer toys, etc. No more roommates. As my lovely landlady said, if this is the worst thing that I have to go through in my life, I’m getting off lucky. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2003, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-my-roommate-go-away/156009/40 "2003-02-19T23:40:55Z")
Just for the record, she isn’t living off of her security deposit. Security deposits and rent are two separate entities; a security deposit is (theoretically) supposed to be in a bank account accruing interest until it is returned to the person who paid it, less any deductions for damages, cleaning, etc. She is just living there rent-free at this point. For what it’s worth, I wouldn’t go the legal route if I were you, if you don’t have to. My parents have been landlords for decades, and the bottom line here (and in CA too, it seems) is she will screw you legally for a long time if you have to go that route. Find a way to get her to move herself out ASAP is my best advice. Having your landlady on your side is a big help. Maybe between the two of you you can “convince” her she’d like to live somewhere else. Maybe you could sit down and talk with her about what help she needs to get herself gone (at this point I would be willing to do just about anything to get her out). I sure hope this works out for you. Thinking back on all the problems my parents have had with renters royally screwing them, I sympathize with you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-my-roommate-go-away/156009.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-my-roommate-go-away/156009.md?page=3)