# Why won't Romney release his tax returns? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 1, 2012, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085 "2012-08-01T18:35:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2012, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/221 "2012-08-05T17:40:25Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > If Romney wants to keep telling us what we’ll find by looking at his tax records maybe he should back up his claims by showing them. You are shifting the burden of proof away from where it belongs. Reid is the one making claims about what we would see on Romney’s tax returns. And Reid claims he got the information from a Bain investor that Reid refuses to identify. So Reid is the one who should back up his claims by giving up the name of his informant. Yet he refuses to do so. It seems likely to the rest of you that Romney won’t disclose his tax returns because he has something to hide. It seems equally likely that Reid won’t disclose his informant’s name because Reid has something to hide. Possibly Reid wants to hide that Reid never really talked to a Bain investor, or that he did and they never said anything of the sort, and that the whole thing is a smear some staffer made up and fed to Reid. And Reid justifies it the way CBS did when they used forged documents in 2004 - it’s “really” true in some sense, and anyway ethical violations don’t count in the face of the overwhelming need to defeat a Republican. It’s sort of the flip side of the outrage at the notion that the GOP wanted to make Obama a one-term President. That’s terrible and awful and evil and bad and horrid and rotten. But the Dems wanting to make Romney a no-term President, doing things that are equally or more sleazy than the filibuster - that doesn’t count nearly so much. As I said earlier, IOKIADDI, as always. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2012, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/222 "2012-08-05T17:59:51Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Reid is the one making claims about what we would see on Romney’s tax returns. Reid should have put up, or shut up. I agree > [@](#): > > It seems likely to the rest of you that Romney won’t disclose his tax returns because he has something to hide. Absolutely. > [@](#): > > It’s sort of the flip side of the outrage **at the notion that the GOP wanted to make Obama a one-term President**. That’s terrible and awful and evil and bad and horrid and rotten. But the Dems wanting to make Romney a no-term President, doing things that are equally or more sleazy than the filibuster - that doesn’t count nearly so much. The two have nothing to do with each other. Wanting to make Obama a one-term president and ignoring their duties as representatives of the voters is reprehensible. Obama released years of tax returns. The Republicans can use that info however they see fit. Romney should likewise release his returns. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2012, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/223 "2012-08-05T18:03:27Z")
Um, dude? \*Romney \*is the one running for President. Not Reid, not Rather. _Romney_. \*His \*actions and motivations are the ones relevant to our decisions as to who to vote for. Is this somehow confusing to you? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2012, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/224 "2012-08-05T18:59:55Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > Reid should have put up, or shut up. I agree Give him Romney’s tax returns and he’d happily put up, I should think. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2012, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/225 "2012-08-05T19:00:31Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > No let’s not, because that is crap and you know it. The basis of his low rate is very clear - almost all his income gets taxed at the capital gain rate. That was on the return he released. > > If his old returns just showed the same rate, why not release them? If he gave to charity (and to paraphrase Mr. Dooley the average rich person is as quiet about charity as a waiter with a load of dishes falling down the stairs) he’d be sending them out so fast our heads would spin. :rolleyes: Oh, I see, because I intentionally stop an explanation at a specific point—and announce it—before moving on, in order to make sure we can get agreement to that particular point, you assume that when I say there’s more coming that the “more” doesn’t include the obvious information you felt so compelled to share. Hope you have your mouthguard in. I hear those jerking knees can knock out a tooth. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2012, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/226 "2012-08-05T19:02:28Z")
[quote=“Voyager, post:214, topic:630085”] [quote=“magellan01, post:189, topic:630085”] Reid has “evidence” that a citizen didn’t pay taxes for ten years. And a rich citizen at that! That’s unAmerican, especially since the government could really use that money. so the question is, why is Obama, Holder, and the head of the IRS not doing their job and launching an investigation into Romney’s ten year period of paying no taxes? Not doing so is dereliction of duty. It also send the message that none of us really have to pay our taxes. What the hell is wrong with Obama and his head of the IRS? Why don’t they do their jobs?!!! [/QUOTE I have already covered this, when I said that it is too bad that Nixon isn’t president. First, hearsay is hardly a reason to begin a politically sensitive in public. And we don’t know that someone in the IRS isn’t looking already, but Romney’s returns are hardly something you skim over in a day. Just because Republicans use government for blatantly political purpose (remember DoJ in Bush time?) doesn’t mean Dems will. As for me, I’m betting they are legal but embarrassing.[/QUOTE] And I’m betting they’re 100% legal and are not embarrassing but will be presented as if they are. The “he paid a lower rate than his secretary” is proof of the depths of stupidity the left will willingly wallow in. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2012, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/227 "2012-08-05T19:05:39Z")
> [@Cap\_nReynolds](#): > > Romney is clearly damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t. > If Reid’s claim is false, Romney can prove him wrong and embarrass him all to crap. > If Reid’s right, voters are going to wonder why such a rich man can get away with paying so little, while they pay a larger percentage. This will hurt the Republicans, and even the dullest Fauxistas will pull away from Romney, and maybe not vote at all. > > Romney probably did nothing illegal, but the sheer audacity of making so much and paying so little brings a lot of things into the open that the uber wealthy would prefer to keep quiet. Correction: paying a lower tax rte doesn’t equal “paying so little”. He still paid millions of dollars. That’s way more than I paid. How about you? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2012, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/228 "2012-08-05T19:09:11Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > The two have nothing to do with each other. Wanting to make Obama a one-term president **and** ignoring their duties as representatives of the voters is reprehensible. Obama released years of tax returns. The Republicans can use that info however they see fit. Romney should likewise release his returns. (emphasis mine) You’re argument hinges on that one little word. And since it is not a given that they did _both_ those things, your argument fails. First you’d have to satisfy that the conditional you put forth has, indeed, been met. ---
**Author:** ![Docta\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Docta\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Docta_G)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2012, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/229 "2012-08-05T19:09:36Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Um, dude? \*Romney \*is the one running for President. Not Reid, not Rather. _Romney_. \*His \*actions and motivations are the ones relevant to our decisions as to who to vote for. > > Is this somehow confusing to you? Obviously it is. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2012, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/230 "2012-08-05T19:13:09Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Um, dude? \*Romney \*is the one running for President. Not Reid, not Rather. _Romney_. \*His \*actions and motivations are the ones relevant to our decisions as to who to vote for. > > Is this somehow confusing to you? Um, dude? _Reid_ is the one making the accusation. As the one making the accusation, it is incumbent upon _Reid_ to substantiate it. _That_ is what is relevant in determining the degree of credence we give the accusation. Is this somehow confusing to you? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2012, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/231 "2012-08-05T19:23:58Z")
So you \*do \*expect Reid to release Romney’s tax returns. Wow. Wonder why he hasn’t already done it, then? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2012, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/232 "2012-08-05T19:33:15Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > So you \*do \*expect Reid to release Romney’s tax returns. > > Wow. Wonder why he hasn’t already done it, then? Ha. Ha. Reid can share the name of the supposed person who gave him this “tip” about Romney. He can put up or shut up. I’m tickled that so many of you left-headed stalwarts are so okay with accusations like this being made. Some funny shit. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2012, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/233 "2012-08-05T19:37:29Z")
It’s funny because it’s not even an actual accusation. It’s just speculation. And it’s perfectly reasonable speculation, because there’s absolutely no rational reason that a presidential candidate would withhold his tax returns from the public. The whole situation was created by Romney. And now when Romney does release them, I’m just waiting to demand the “long form.” 😃 Turnabout is fair play. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2012, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/234 "2012-08-05T19:39:32Z")
If we did know the name of the source, would we then know anything more about Romney’s honesty than we do now? The source isn’t running for President _either_. You’re still embarrassing yourself and don’t even realize it. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2012, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/235 "2012-08-05T19:53:12Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > This is the same Warren Buffett you’re speaking of? > > “[Warren Buffett’s Berkshire Hathaway Owes Taxes Going Back To 2002](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/29/warren-buffett-taxes-berkshire-hathaway_n_941099.html)” Why yes, yes it is. I suppose your point is that it is somehow hypocritical for a man who advocates higher individual tax rates for multimillionaires to be the chairman of a huge conglomerate that is in the process of settling a dispute over taxes. I’m sure you’re aware that corporate tax law is very different from tax law for individuals, and that Buffett has an obligation to maximize profits for his stockholders. What you may not be aware of is that Buffet does not fill out the thousands of pages of Berkshire Hathaway’s tax returns himself. So, do you have any evidence that he is actively directing a policy of avoiding or delaying paying the taxes his company owes, or that he encourages shady accounting? Do you have any evidence that BH’s tax disputes are much more numerous or serious than those of other corporations of comparable size and complexity? In short, do you have any idea whether your criticism is legitimate, or are you just throwing mud? ---
**Author:** ![DirkGntly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DirkGntly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DirkGntly)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2012, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/236 "2012-08-05T20:11:18Z")
> [@rock\_party](#): > > Magellan, it so happens that it looks worse if Romney DIDN’T do anything illegal. He’s trying to implement policy, the premise of which is: Give the wealthy more and cut back on the safety net. > We’ve had it drummed into our heads for years that \_% of the wealthy pay \_% of the taxes…that their innovation is hampered by such a HUGE burden and they can’t create jobs with such a heavy tax burden. > Now here comes along a typical successful business man…pillar of the community…running for the presidency. He only paid 13%. AND he might have paid less in other years. > We don’t get to see the actual percentage of tax that these zillionaires pay. EVER. It’s kept totally > mum. But the one time we do, the one time a zillionaire is FORCED to publicly show his returns…he pays only 13% and won’t let us see the rest knowing full well he probably paid even less. > The WHOLE PREMISE of the republicans is now is question. The wealthy pay LESS in taxes than the average Joe. They’ve been scamming us all along. I’m so sick of this kind of shit. _Obama is a fucking multi-millionaire._ Do you honest-to-fucking-God think he pays more than 13%?? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2012, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/237 "2012-08-05T20:19:54Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > It’s sort of the flip side of the outrage at the notion that the GOP wanted to make Obama a one-term President. I agree with this. Surely you don’t expect either side to treat the other fairly, do you? I am gratified to see the GOP fall right into Reid’s trap. The more they object, the longer the issue of Romney’s taxes stay in the headlines. Bravo, Harry; bravo. ---
**Author:** ![Cap\_nReynolds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/edb3f5/32.png) [@Cap\_nReynolds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cap_nReynolds)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2012, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/238 "2012-08-05T20:23:22Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Correction: paying a lower tax rte doesn’t equal “paying so little”. He still paid millions of dollars. That’s way more than I paid. How about you? And he and others like him don’t pay nearly enough. But, sticking to the topic, it appears that at least one journalist claims that Reid’s source is reliable. [http://www.politicususa.com/cnn-cuts-dana-bashs-confirmation-source-confirming-reid.html](http://www.politicususa.com/cnn-cuts-dana-bashs-confirmation-source-confirming-reid.html) That didn’t stop the RNC chairman from calling him a “dirty liar.” [http://www.politicususa.com/republicans-distract-romneys-tax-returns-calling-harry-reid-liar.html](http://www.politicususa.com/republicans-distract-romneys-tax-returns-calling-harry-reid-liar.html) ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2012, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/239 "2012-08-05T20:25:47Z")
> [@DirkGntly](#): > > I’m so sick of this kind of shit. _Obama is a fucking multi-millionaire._ Do you honest-to-fucking-God think he pays more than 13%?? Strangely enough, we can apparently answer this question. (I wonder why?) In 2011, Obama paid [about 20 percent](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/14/us/politics/obamas-release-tax-returns.html)in federal taxes and his own spokeswoman used it as an opportunity to criticize tax policy that results in his paying a lower percentage than his own secretary. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2012, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/240 "2012-08-05T20:29:59Z")
> [@DirkGntly](#): > > I’m so sick of this kind of shit. _Obama is a fucking multi-millionaire._ Do you honest-to-fucking-God think he pays more than 13%?? In Obama’s case, [this is not an unknowable fact.](http://www.barackobama.com/tax-returns/) In 2011, he had a taxable income of $496,386, and paid $162.074 in income tax, for a tax rate of 32.65%. What did Mitt pay? 14%? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085.md?page=13)