# Why won't Romney release his tax returns? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 1, 2012, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085 "2012-08-01T18:35:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/321 "2012-08-06T19:46:41Z")
> [@Truman\_Burbank](#): > > When birthers were demanding more info about Obama’s birthplace, (or grades, or whatever) what was your stance about that? My recall may be faulty, but I don’t remember you standing up for Obama’s right to stonewall the Birthers, and demanding that the Birthers ‘put up or shut up’, but again, I might disremember… IANABirther but . . . Being a natural born citizen is a requirement to be president. Releasing tax returns is not. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/322 "2012-08-06T19:47:48Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > How is this issue anything other than a loser for Romney? Because some people recognize where the burden of proof really lies. [QUOTE=Truman Burbank] Shodan, just out of curiosity… When birthers were demanding more info about Obama’s birthplace, (or grades, or whatever) what was your stance about that? [/QUOTE] I’ve never paid that much attention to birthers. Sooner or later more information was bound to come out, and it did. If you mean did I ever call for Obama to release his birth certificate, no, I didn’t. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/323 "2012-08-06T19:50:12Z")
> [@CJJ](#): > > Regarding Romney’s failure to release his tax returns, a few pundits have pointed to legal doctrines such as the “Missing Evidence Instruction” used for civil cases. Here’s an [example from the Illinois Circuit Court’s civil jury instructions:](http://www.state.il.us/court/CircuitCourt/CivilJuryInstructions/5.00.pdf) > > > [@](#): > > > > If a party to this case has failed [to offer evidence] [to produce a witness] within his power to produce, you may infer that the [evidence] [testimony of the witness] would be adverse to that party if you believe each of the following elements: > > > > 1. The [evidence] [witness] was under the control of the party and could have been produced by the exercise of reasonable diligence. > > 2. The [evidence] [witness] was not equally available to an adverse party. > > 3. A reasonably prudent person under the same or similar circumstances would have [offered the evidence] [produced the witness] if he believed [it to be] [the testimony would be] favorable to him. > > 4. No reasonable excuse for the failure has been shown. > > IANAL, but from my reading all the elements seem to be in place for the jury (i.e. the voting public) to infer the contents would be unfavorable. Obviously Romney’s not on trial here, but I personally would exdpect more than his laughable “put up or shut up” defense against Reid’s cahrges. As near as I can tell, the Republican position is that element #4 has not been satisfied. Romney’s reasonable excuse for not releasing the returns is that the Obama campaign would find something damaging in them, and therefore we can’t conclude that anything damaging is actually there. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/324 "2012-08-06T19:50:12Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > The reason it won’t help is because the Obama/Axelrod machine will just keep nitpicking:, What’s this, and this, and this , and THIS! Oh they might all be completely fine, but we just want a full explanation. Yeah? So? What’s to stop Romney from fighting fire with fire and picking apart Obama’s tax returns for this, and this and THIS! ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/325 "2012-08-06T19:51:49Z")
Burden of proof? Running for president is not like being accused of a crime. You don’t hold some privilege against the public’s interest in disclosure of your finances. If more people think that they deserve to see Romney’s tax returns before they would vote for him than not, then they’re not going to be swayed based on some imagined burden of proof. They are legitimately able to infer that he’s not disclosing because he has something to hide. ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/326 "2012-08-06T19:55:23Z")
The very fact that we and others are discussing this indicates that Mr. Romney is making a serious political misstep in not releasing his tax returns for the past 12 years. This has nothing to do with Mr. Reid’s stance on the matter except that he brought up the issue to begin with. It has now received enough attention to ‘have its own legs’ as they say. I am far from a normal partisan. I think presidential politics in the US has become much more of a spectator sport than a genuine exercise in governance. However, this has become much more than just a easily dismissed issue. It has been tied into Mr. Romney’s somewhat inchoate explanation about his involvement with Bain Capital (for one example). If I were on Mr. Romney’s staff, I’d be urging him to defuse this potential explosive hand-grenade sooner rather than later. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/327 "2012-08-06T20:06:38Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > They are legitimately able to infer that he’s not disclosing because he has something to hide. What do you think Reid is hiding? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/328 "2012-08-06T20:14:56Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > You’re forgetting that there is some evidence available 2010’s returns and soon, 2011’s. Barring credible new information, it’s logical to assume that his other returns would be similar. So, your answer to [the “Let’s Make A Deal” conundrum](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/916/on-lets-make-a-deal-you-pick-door-1-monty-opens-door-2-no-prize-do-you-stay-with-door-1-or-switch-to-3) is that it doesn’t matter whether you keep Door #1 or switch to Door #3, because it’s logical to assume that they’re as empty as Door #2 (which Monty chose to reveal before giving you the choice)? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/329 "2012-08-06T20:19:17Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > You’re forgetting that there is some evidence available 2010’s returns and soon, 2011’s. Barring credible new information, it’s logical to assume that his other returns would be similar. > > And #s 3 and 4 are easily argued for either side. Members of the jury, we have proven that my client did not kill anyone December last. Thus it is logical to think he did not kill someone in November when the murder he was accused of took place. Not being sleazy when people are watching is no proof you weren’t before people started watching. As for nitpicking - there is a lot of that going on about the returns he did release, right? or not. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/330 "2012-08-06T20:48:25Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Members of the jury, we have proven that my client did not kill anyone December last. Thus it is logical to think he did not kill someone in November when the murder he was accused of took place. May it please the court, my client is being accused of a serious crime, but the state refuses to produce the witness on whose testimony they base their case. Not even that witness’ name has been given. Instead, the prosecution insists it is up to the accused to prove his innocence. Seriously, ladies and gentlemen of the jury - a second hand account from an anonymous source? From a known [racist](http://abcnews.go.com/WN/harry-reid-democrats-double-standard-racial-comments/story?id=9531248#.UCAr5qDl590)? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/331 "2012-08-06T21:02:11Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > May it please the court, my client is being accused of a serious crime, but the state refuses to produce the witness on whose testimony they base their case. Not even that witness’ name has been given. > > Instead, the prosecution insists it is up to the accused to prove his innocence. > > Seriously, ladies and gentlemen of the jury - a second hand account from an anonymous source? From a known [racist](http://abcnews.go.com/WN/harry-reid-democrats-double-standard-racial-comments/story?id=9531248#.UCAr5qDl590)? > > Regards, > Shodan This isn’t a trial, it’s an election. No one gives a damn if he answers the question, or if he’s content to look like a tax cheat. His call, really. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/332 "2012-08-06T21:29:51Z")
Tell it to **Voyager**. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/333 "2012-08-06T21:42:14Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > [Reid] said (on one occasion) that Romney paid ‘basically’ no taxes for 12 years and (more recently) that he didn’t pay taxes for 10 years. That was actually pretty sloppy of Reid. If Romney ever paid sales tax on a candy bar, he can say Reid’s allegation is false, and be technically correct. And I would bet my house that that is pretty close to what Romney is doing. I think that his returns would show so many offshore accounts and shady tax shelters that all but the most fanatical Reps would be disgusted. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/334 "2012-08-06T21:48:25Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Tell it to **Voyager**. > > Regards, > Shodan The analogy works in his case – it _does_ make sense to say, “hey, this tax return he _did_ release is fine, but the others are not necessarily the same”; the analogy makes perfect sense there. It _doesn’t_ make sense to say, “hey, Romney is innocent of tax fraud until proven guilty, so we shouldn’t hold him refusing to reveal his taxation information against him, nor assume that there’s anything wrong with his taxpaying”. That analogy _doesn’t_ work. The courtroom analogy doesn’t always hold up. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/335 "2012-08-06T23:03:07Z")
Reid is playing this exactly right. Bottom line, unless you are willfully naive, you know that Romney has indeed paid substantially less than 13% in recent years, else he would not have reneged on the offer he made to ABC a week or so ago to “research” the issue. He’s afraid to lie about that, because it’s bound to come out. So Romney’s refusal to answer gives Reid’s charge more credibility than any name Reid could provide as his source. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/336 "2012-08-06T23:04:01Z")
Here’s what I heard from a “guy.” This credible, would never lie, source told me that Romney keeps sheep for his own sexual pleasure and writes them off as “farming expenses.” Mitt, just release your tax returns and you can prove me wrong! ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/337 "2012-08-06T23:08:51Z")
There’s some (reasonably plausible) speculation that it was [Jon Huntsman or one of his family](http://cannonfire.blogspot.com/2012/08/did-jon-huntsman-tell-harry-reid-about.html). The Huntsman’s don’t really have much use for Romney and are pretty close to Reid (a fellow Mormon). ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/338 "2012-08-06T23:12:40Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Here’s what I heard from a “guy.” This credible, would never lie, source told me that Romney keeps sheep for his own sexual pleasure and writes them off as “farming expenses.” > > Mitt, just release your tax returns and you can prove me wrong! So, Mitt using sheep for sexual pleasure is just as believable as Mitt legally avoiding taxes for ten years? Was there some other point you were trying to make?/ ---
**Author:** ![Enkel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/df705f/32.png) [@Enkel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enkel)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/339 "2012-08-06T23:15:22Z")
Article about how Romney might not be popular with the Italian public. [http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-08-06/romney-persona-non-grata-in-italy-for-bain-s-deal-skirting-taxes.html](http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-08-06/romney-persona-non-grata-in-italy-for-bain-s-deal-skirting-taxes.html) > [@](#): > > While Bain won’t disclose its precise return on the investment, Cuneo’s office said Investitori Associati’s return was almost 28 times the initial investment. Bain, like other private equity firms, enhances returns by using borrowed money to finance acquisitions. > > Bain moved profits through a series of subsidiaries in Luxembourg, a country that makes it easy to get cash out without paying taxes, according to corporate filings. Corporate records in Luxembourg show Bain **carried out technical steps for a tax- free repatriation of profits to the U.S.** ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2012, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/340 "2012-08-07T00:17:21Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > As I said, you can’t tell anything about the candidate from what his opponents say about him. Then why are you all worked up about it? 😛 > [@](#): > > I realize you would like to make this about Romney, but it isn’t (any longer) Oh? When did Reid declare his candidacy for President? 😛 > [@](#): > > You are, again, trying to shift the burden of proof. Romney does not have to rebut what Reid claims; Reid has to prove what he says. You are \*really \*totally mystified by how this campaigning business works, aren’t you? 😛 > [@BobLibDem](#): > > My guess is that McCain never even glanced at Romney’s tax returns. Considering how, well, let’s call it “superficial” was his consideration of the person he \*did \*choose, you don’t have to guess; it’s a certainty. > [@magellan01](#): > > You’re forgetting that there is some evidence available 2010’s returns and soon, 2011’s. Barring credible new information, it’s logical to assume that his other returns would be similar. Then why do \*you \*think he won’t release them? What would be the harm? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085.md?page=18)