# Why won't Romney release his tax returns? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 1, 2012, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085 "2012-08-01T18:35:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2012, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/381 "2012-08-08T05:46:21Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I’ll give it a shot. There’s nothing stopping him. Except maybe a desire to talk about things that actually matter. Things that matter? You mean like Obama not wanting soldiers to vote, and Obama saying that business owners contributed nothing to the success of their businesses? Honest, lofty, MATTERING things like that? Are you seriously asserting that a man who will stoop to crap like that … aw, fuck it, there is no good option here. If you’re not serious, you’re wasting everybody’s time, and if you are, then I’m wasting my time. ---
**Author:** ![Untoward\_Parable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/51bf81/32.png) [@Untoward\_Parable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Untoward_Parable)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2012, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/382 "2012-08-08T06:01:06Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > Things that matter? > > You mean like Obama not wanting soldiers to vote, and Obama saying that business owners contributed nothing to the success of their businesses? Honest, lofty, MATTERING things like that? > > Are you seriously asserting that a man who will stoop to crap like that … aw, fuck it, there is no good option here. If you’re not serious, you’re wasting everybody’s time, and if you are, then I’m wasting my time. Might want to fact check before going ape on an internet forum… ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2012, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/383 "2012-08-08T11:39:08Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > If the U.S. tax code consistently lets him pay a lower tax rate than the poor and middle class people he’s asking to vote for him, then he’s got plenty of incentive not to release it. That’s what I expect is going on here-not that Romney is cheating or breaking the law, just that he’s been the beneficiary of a fucked-up tax code, and it’d be embarrassing for him to keep pushing for tax cuts for the rich with that held over him. And very complex tax shelters. Things that you set up for no reason than to legally avoid paying taxes - and which you need to be wealthy to set up and make work. These things usually aren’t features of the tax code themselves as much as they are loopholes that its legal to take advantage of. But legal and ethical are two different things. And perception in politics counts for a lot. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2012, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/384 "2012-08-08T12:10:50Z")
> [@Untoward\_Parable](#): > > Might want to fact check before going ape on an internet forum… Both this and the post you responded to are maybe a little ambiguous…are you castigating **TonySinclair** for spreading lies about Obama (not wanting soldiers to vote, etc)? Because I think that was his point…that ROMNEY is blatantly lying about Obama in his ads. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2012, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/385 "2012-08-08T16:23:48Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Both this and the post you responded to are maybe a little ambiguous…are you castigating **TonySinclair** for spreading lies about Obama (not wanting soldiers to vote, etc)? Because I think that was his point…that ROMNEY is blatantly lying about Obama in his ads. Correct. Evidently I’m too subtle when I go ape. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2012, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/386 "2012-08-08T16:25:10Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > There’s nothing stopping him. Except maybe a desire to talk about things that actually matter. Hokay. Maybe he’d like to discuss [his guy’s tax plan](http://www.romneyplan.org/)… ---
**Author:** ![CJJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@CJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CJJ)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2012, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/387 "2012-08-08T16:41:58Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > And very complex tax shelters. Things that you set up for no reason than to legally avoid paying taxes - and which you need to be wealthy to set up and make work. These things usually aren’t features of the tax code themselves as much as they are loopholes that its legal to take advantage of. > > But legal and ethical are two different things. And perception in politics counts for a lot. Recently, the Romney campaign requested that the Virginia State Board of Elections investigate whether a voter registration group broke state law when it sent out partially completed registration forms to potential voters. The Board told the group to end the practice, but they declined to investigate because it wasn’t clear that any laws were broken. The Romney campaign had [this response](http://wtvr.com/2012/08/06/romney-voter-participation-center-investigation/) (emphasis mine): > [@](#): > > “The Romney campaign supports efforts by private groups to register all those who are eligible to vote. Such organizations must take responsibility to ensure that they conform to the letter **and spirit** of the law.“ Here, Romney’s campaign has no trouble hypocritically insisting that someone else conform to the spirit of the law. But when it comes to his taxes, Romney’s response is the strictly technical “I don’t pay more than are legally due.” And considering that the man stashes ~$100 million in an off-shore IRA as part of his tax strategy–an unusual practive that doesn’t seem to jibe with the “spirit” of laws that enacted [individual _retirement_ accounts](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individual_Retirement_Account#Types)–I think it’s pretty clear that in Romney’s world “spirit” is for chumps if real money is involved. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2012, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/388 "2012-08-08T16:48:14Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Except maybe a desire to talk about things that actually matter. The tax code isn’t a significant issue? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2012, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/389 "2012-08-08T17:28:24Z")
Maybe he’ll release them [now that it has been learned that 40% of the initial money for Bain came from questionable Central American sources.](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/08/mitt-romney-death-squads-bain_n_1710133.html) > [@](#): > > When The Huffington Post asked the Romney campaign about Bain Capital accepting funds from families tied to death squads, a spokeswoman forwarded a 1999 Salt Lake Tribune article to explain the campaign’s position on the matter. She declined to comment further. > > “Romney confirms Bain had investors in El Salvador. But, as was Bain’s policy with any big investor, they had the families checked out as diligently as possible,” the Tribune wrote. “They uncovered no unsavory links to drugs or other criminal activity.” > > Nobody with a basic understanding of the region’s history could believe that assertion. > > By 1984, the media had thoroughly exposed connections between the death squads and the Salvadoran oligarchy, including the families that invested with Romney. The sitting U.S. ambassador to El Salvador charged that several families, including at least one that invested with Bain, were living in Miami and directly funding death squads. Even by 1981, El Salvador’s elite, largely relocated to Miami, were so angered by the public perception that they were financing death squads that they reached out to the media to make their case. The two men put forward to represent the oligarchs were both from families that would invest in Bain three years later. The most cursory review of their backgrounds would have turned up the ties. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2012, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/390 "2012-08-08T17:30:40Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I’ll give it a shot. There’s nothing stopping him. Except maybe a desire to talk about things that actually matter. And the fact that he doesn’t think that filing taxes that align with the U.S. tax code is something anyone should have to apologize for. Nobody is asking him to apologize. Plus, who gets to decide what matters, Romney? Because that is arrogance. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2012, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/391 "2012-08-08T17:34:29Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Maybe he’ll release them [now that it has been learned that 40% of the initial money for Bain came from questionable Central American sources.](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/08/mitt-romney-death-squads-bain_n_1710133.html) I’m about as anti-Romney as it’s possible to be, but unless these guys were active participants in the formation of Bain, I don’t see this as swaying many people. That may be due to my own ignorance of how carefully companies are supposed to check out investors, but I don’t think I’m any more ignorant than the average Romney supporter. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2012, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/392 "2012-08-08T17:41:17Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > I’m about as anti-Romney as it’s possible to be, but unless these guys were active participants in the formation of Bain, I don’t see this as swaying many people. That may be due to my own ignorance of how carefully companies are supposed to check out investors, but I don’t think I’m any more ignorant than the average Romney supporter. While agree one thing like this isn’t much, it still is part of a broader narrative of Romney that is being developed. That’s the thing, it isn’t about finding the smoking gun, it is about characterizing Romney as a privileged financier who lives in a moneyed world that 99.9% of Americans have no idea how it works, how it is supposed to help them, or how that makes Romney a reasonable choice for President given he is clueless about the average Americans struggles. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2012, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/393 "2012-08-08T17:49:37Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > I’m about as anti-Romney as it’s possible to be, but unless these guys were active participants in the formation of Bain, I don’t see this as swaying many people. That may be due to my own ignorance of how carefully companies are supposed to check out investors, but I don’t think I’m any more ignorant than the average Romney supporter. Yea, I agree. I’m not a fan of these “six degrees of separation” games people play during campaign season. The accusation is that a guy running a death squad got money from a guy who was a family member of another guy who was one of many Latin American investors in Bain. I suspect you can find some similar story connecting anyone whose been reasonably prominent in politics or business to someone unsavoury. (plus, it doesn’t really have anything to do with Romney’s tax returns. I doubt even the 1% get to claim “helped South American death squads invest their money” deduction) ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2012, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/394 "2012-08-08T18:58:57Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Every deduction would be scrutinized. God forbid there should be a charitable donation to a charity that has some guy leading it who made a politically incorrect statement somewhere - Romney will be attacked for being associated. And so it goes. There doesn’t have to be any real red meat in there - just enough uncertainty that ‘questions’ can be raised and clowns like Harry Reid can jump out with specious accusations, which will lead to demands for more disclosure, which in turn will open up new ‘questions’, etc. The thing is, every recent presidential nominee has released their tax returns. If they were all willing to face having “every deduction scrutinized”, why isn’t Romney? Obviously his political opponents will give everything he’s done the most negative spin possible, but this is always true for both candidates. It seems to me Romney must think his tax return is, at the very least, _unusually susceptible to negative spin_. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2012, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/395 "2012-08-08T19:31:42Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > The thing is, every recent presidential nominee has released their tax returns. If they were all willing to face having “every deduction scrutinized”, why isn’t Romney? > > Obviously his political opponents will give everything he’s done the most negative spin possible, but this is always true for both candidates. It seems to me Romney must think his tax return is, at the very least, _unusually susceptible to negative spin_. Yes, it’s a case of special pleading–“I, unlike any other candidate releasing his tax returns, am reasonably concerned that they contain materials that my opponents could conceivably ask difficult and embarrassing questions about, so, unlike any other candidate, I am refusing to let these perfectly innocuous tax returns be entered into the public record. Despite the fact that I have hounded my opponent in a previous race to make his tax returns public, I am refusing to do so now, although mine are perfectly legal and I’m proud of what I have written on them.” ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2012, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/396 "2012-08-08T19:46:58Z")
Can you imagine the non-stop screeching we’d hear from the various Fox ‘News’ sources if it were Obama hiding his tax returns? I almost wish it were that way around; the entertainment value alone would be worth it. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2012, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/397 "2012-08-08T19:58:08Z")
Romney can help you avoid [taxes like a boss](http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/08/opinion/canellos-kleinbard-romney-taxes/index.html?hpt=hp_c1). Mormons have this thing about avoiding the appearance of evil. In other words, as an adult in a free country, a Mormon is entirely within their rights to walk into a bar. However, they are encouraged not to because being seen doing so suggests the appearance of evil. Romney’s evasiveness about his tax returns may be nothing more than a stubborn case of “it’s none of your goddamn business”. However, it has an appearance of evil to it. What are you doing walking into that tax shelter like you own the place, Mr. Romney? Care to reassure your Sunday School class that you’re not sinning? ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2012, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/398 "2012-08-08T19:58:58Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > Correct. Evidently I’m too subtle when I go ape. I suggest flinging of additional poo. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2012, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/399 "2012-08-08T20:11:17Z")
> [@DWMarch](#): > > Mormons have this thing about avoiding the appearance of evil. In other words, as an adult in a free country, a Mormon is entirely within their rights to walk into a bar. However, they are encouraged not to because being seen doing so suggests the appearance of evil. > > Romney’s evasiveness about his tax returns may be nothing more than a stubborn case of “it’s none of your goddamn business”. However, it has an appearance of evil to it. What are you doing walking into that tax shelter like you own the place, Mr. Romney? Care to reassure your Sunday School class that you’re not sinning? It didn’t seem to bother his dad. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2012, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/400 "2012-08-08T20:22:11Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > While agree one thing like this isn’t much, it still is part of a broader narrative of Romney that is being developed. That’s the thing, it isn’t about finding the smoking gun, it is about characterizing Romney as a privileged financier who lives in a moneyed world that 99.9% of Americans have no idea how it works, how it is supposed to help them, or how that makes Romney a reasonable choice for President given he is clueless about the average Americans struggles. Okay, if there is the assumption that there is no smoking gun, there is no need to examine all those years of records. If it is, in fact, about “characterizing Romney as a privileged financier who lives in a moneyed world that 99.9% of Americans have no idea how it works”, I think we already have near universal agreement. Right? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085.md?page=21)