# Why won't Romney release his tax returns? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 1, 2012, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085 "2012-08-01T18:35:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/41 "2012-08-02T12:16:18Z")
> [@Twoflower](#): > > I disagree that it’s a mountain/molehill issue. He’s the one who raised his departure date as his excuse why he’s not responsible for Bain’s actions after that date. Should his tax returns prove that he’s lying about this, I think that’s a huge hit to both his credibility and his credentials. In my opinion the reason it’s a big issue is not why he originally lied about it, which I find kind of stupid, but rather that he blatantly lied to the American people in the first place. There’s already ample evidence he was still head of Bain for years after he claimed and the current excuse is he retired “retroactively”. It’s definitely no mole hill. At the least Romney has allowed his major professional achievement become a negative by needlessly lying about when he quit. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/42 "2012-08-02T13:05:30Z")
> [@Enkel](#): > > Well, since Romney hasn’t even released ALL of his 2010 tax return (and a 2011 estimate doesn’t count for squat)… I say we all get to speculate. … (h) Difficult to explain the business deductions for blood of newborn infants. ---
**Author:** ![mack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mack)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/43 "2012-08-02T14:31:12Z")
Maybe he took advantage of one or more of the tax incentives in Obama’s stimulus plan and got stimulated. ---
**Author:** ![Enkel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/df705f/32.png) [@Enkel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enkel)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/44 "2012-08-02T15:02:49Z")
> [@42fish](#): > > (h) Difficult to explain the business deductions for blood of newborn infants. They were needed to maintain the flesh latices of his cyborg… er… uh.. for cosmetic reasons. Yeah… That’s the ticket. For cosmetic reasons. (why do you think he bought that fetus disposal company… you don’t _really_ think he’d let them dead babies go to waste, do you? > [@mack](#): > > Maybe he took advantage of one or more of the tax incentives in Obama’s stimulus plan and got stimulated. I heard from someone who cleaned the house of a guy that invested in Bain that Romney’s Chinese Wind Turbine Factory took stimulus dollars to hire low wage Indian employees who were used to flood the Internet with anti-solar and anti-coal blogs so that people would stick with his Iranian Oil or Chinese Turbines. Now, obviously, I can’t tell you who told me that or even if they think it’s true, but I’ve sent all of this to ABC. So don’t be surprised if it’s on the News tonight. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/45 "2012-08-02T17:27:40Z")
Continuing the theme of Romney, and all his top advisers (the putative future Cabinet and WH staff) being too thin-skinned even for a campaign, much less governing: [Fehrnstrom compares Reid to McCarthy](http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0812/79324.html) for claiming Romney paid no taxes for 10 years. It would be easy to refute the assertion, of course, but dudgeon is just more fun. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/46 "2012-08-02T17:33:54Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Except that I’m pretty sure he HAS paid what he was legally required to pay in taxes. Basically, if you are expecting some sort of revelation (assuming he did release more than 2 years) that he paid less than he was supposed to, then I think you’d be sadly disappointed. I don’t think that even the Dems in their fondest wish think that he’s going to be caught doing something illegal. Why the Dems are pushing this is so they can use it as more ammo against him in the same way they are using Bain against him. The angst over this is because he’s not playing ball, so they are using that as ammo against him instead. So, damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t…which is pretty much what I said, and answers the OPs question. I thought this also, but see my link in post #6. If it were known that the IRS did not check valuations of things moved into gifts and IRAs he could have done something that everyone was getting away with. I don’t know if it is technically illegal, but there are penalties and it sure stinks. He is only damned if he does and doesn’t because there is something fishy about his returns. If they all looked like the current return the problem would blow over very quickly. Too bad Nixon isn’t in the White House - we’d have those returns leaked by tomorrow. > [@](#): > > It IS a mountain out of a mole hill issue. Basically, it’s a silly technicality…he left Bain as far as from a decision making standpoint, but remained basically a silent partner for a few years afterward for reasons having to do with how the business was structured. The only ones who think he’s ‘lying about this’ are ones who have drunk the kool-aide. The ones hinting that he’s ‘lying about this’ probably know better…and know great political ammunition when they see it. It’s masterful. The only thing that would be better is if they can pressure him into releasing more of his tax data. Not because of some great revelation that will prove he’s lying or did something illegal, but because he’ll be backing down, plus of all the pump priming about the evil rich and how little they pay in taxes, blah blah blah. It’s a total side issue, and a brilliant diversion that has captured the public’s rather limited attention and diverted a lot of folks from thinking about how the economy sort of sucks, and seems to be sucking more lately. Perfect bread and circuses issue. He was still CEO of Bain during this period, and that is slightly different from being a silent partner. I don’t know what their bylaws look like, but the CEO usually has some specified duties and responsibilities. Since he was getting a salary, either he was getting lots of money for nothing or was not a silent partner. Too bad SarbOx was not in effect then, because if it was he’d have to sign off on lots of stuff. It is not hard for the lawyers to change the CEO, so there is no excuse that they just didn’t get around to it. I’d still be suspicious of his supposed lack of involvement considering his ownership position, but this is different. My guess is that for small companies like Bain they have lots of rules but no one really lets them get in the way of doing what they want to do. Would Romney show the same lack of respect for the laws of the nation as president? I suspect he stayed as CEO in order to justify getting the money, even though he already had lots. He is a greedy little shit, isn’t he? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/47 "2012-08-02T17:37:22Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Continuing the theme of Romney, and all his top advisers (the putative future Cabinet and WH staff) being too thin-skinned even for a campaign, much less governing: [Fehrnstrom compares Reid to McCarthy](http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0812/79324.html) for claiming Romney paid no taxes for 10 years. > > It would be easy to refute the assertion, of course, but dudgeon is just more fun. This is why it seems so probable that there is something pretty bad in there. He can refute the rumors so easily by releasing the returns. And it’s why I think it must be pretty bad. He’ll wait until just before the election to release anything. People kept voting for George Bush after it was revealed that he was a convicted criminal. People tend to have their minds made up by October, and when whatever he’s done is revealed, he’ll get all indignant and call the charges a smear, and it won’t have a big impact on the election. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/48 "2012-08-02T17:37:33Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Since he was getting a salary, either he was getting lots of money for nothing or was not a silent partner. Well, Romney thought $300,000 in public speaking fees was a trifle, so $100,000 for a nominal position probably didn’t seem like a big deal either. But I think his campaign’s position is that he was required to sign some SEC forms because he was the guy nominally in charge and that his involvement didn’t go further than that. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/49 "2012-08-02T17:39:09Z")
In regards to Reid, he’s making stuff up. Or he’s incredibly stupid. His source would not have access to Romney’s tax returns, assuming the source even exists. My guess would be that Reid is just using a ploy to get Romney to release the returns, or to cast such a shadow over the issue that Romney loses ground in the polls by refusing to do so. Unlike in SMDB, lying is A-OK in politics. Even if Reid is caught with his pants on fire, there will be no consequences to his credibility. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/50 "2012-08-02T17:41:05Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > In regards to Reid, he’s making stuff up. Or he’s incredibly stupid. It was incredibly stupid even if he wasn’t making it up. He had no basis for passing on that rumor and no way to know if it was true (which it probably isn’t). ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/51 "2012-08-02T18:26:00Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > It was incredibly stupid even if he wasn’t making it up. He had no basis for passing on that rumor and no way to know if it was true (which it probably isn’t). Reid was just asking questions–you got a problem with that? ---
**Author:** ![mozchron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@mozchron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mozchron)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/52 "2012-08-02T18:58:31Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > It was incredibly stupid even if he wasn’t making it up. He had no basis for passing on that rumor and no way to know if it was true (which it probably isn’t). I’d bet money that it isn’t true. But it’s a genius piece of muckraking anyway. Make the sonofabitch deny it and so forth. There is no situation where Romney can win this. If he doesn’t release the returns, these kind of speculations can keep hitting. After all as stated above, people are _just asking questions_. The only way to stop this is to release the returns. If there was ANY politically viable way to do that, he would have done it already. Ergo, there are some majorly damaging things in those documents. I doubt there is anything technically illegal (I don’t think Romney is too smart to avoid that, but I would hope he was just smart enough to hire people smarter than him). Its worse than that - its probably ALL legal, and that’s the problem. It makes him look even more like a rich fat cat gaming the system in a way that Joe Schmoe could never do. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/53 "2012-08-02T19:01:47Z")
> [@mozchron](#): > > I’d bet money that it isn’t true. But it’s a genius piece of muckraking anyway. Make the sonofabitch deny it and so forth. It doesn’t work so well if you wind up looking like a bigger jerk than the sonofabitch. If Reid fell short of that, it’s only because the tax issue has been around for a while and Reid’s comments will be forgotten by the weekend. ---
**Author:** ![mozchron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@mozchron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mozchron)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/54 "2012-08-02T19:08:41Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > It doesn’t work so well if you wind up looking like a bigger jerk than the sonofabitch. If Reid fell short of that, it’s only because the tax issue has been around for a while and Reid’s comments will be forgotten by the weekend. I don’t agree that Reid looks like a jerk, but stipulate that’s an opinion where reasonable people may disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/55 "2012-08-02T22:11:22Z")
Is it? He said somebody who invested with Bain told him Mitt Romney paid no taxes for 10 years. We don’t know who that person is or if there’s any reason to think this person has a clue what he’s talking about - or of course if the person exists in the first place. That’s not much of a basis for suggesting a guy cheated on his taxes for a decade, and it’s a bullshit way to try to get him to release the returns. It’s true that Republicans did this to Obama regarding his birth certificate and that issue was even stupider and much-longer lived, but still. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/56 "2012-08-02T22:15:10Z")
[quote=“Marley23, post:55, topic:630085”] Republicans did this to Obama regarding his birth certificate and that issue was even stupider and much-longer lived[\QUOTE] This. Sauce for the goose, right? Now “B-b-b-b-b-but that’s UNFAAAAAAAIR!” Always was. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/57 "2012-08-02T22:28:45Z")
Well, it is Ok with **me** for the Dems to refrain from jumping into the muck with the Birthers and the rest of unethical loons. ---
**Author:** ![Monocracy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monocracy/32/4493_2.png) [@Monocracy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monocracy)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/58 "2012-08-02T22:36:25Z")
How many years worth of taxes do Presidential candidates traditionally release? How many did Obama release in 2008, or Kerry in 2004, or Bush in 2000? ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/59 "2012-08-02T22:42:16Z")
You’re all wrong. The taxes will show that he has been secretly funding the Applied Sciences branch of Bain and is, in fact, Batman ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/60 "2012-08-02T23:07:37Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Well, Romney thought $300,000 in public speaking fees was a trifle, so $100,000 for a nominal position probably didn’t seem like a big deal either. But I think his campaign’s position is that he was required to sign some SEC forms because he was the guy nominally in charge and that his involvement didn’t go further than that. Remember it is $100K plus. They were not required to report his actual salary. Remember the cruise ship which hit the rock. Perhaps the Captain should have said that he was only nominally in charge, and he had actually retroactively resigned just before the cruise began. But I’m sure you are right that he considers his salary as a trifle. That’s his problem, and that’s what all this stuff is showing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085.md?page=4)