# Why won't Romney release his tax returns? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 1, 2012, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085 "2012-08-01T18:35:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2012, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/101 "2012-08-03T15:11:31Z")
How? It can’t be substantated until Mitt releases his returns. Is Reid supposed to break into Romney’s study and fish them out of his safe? ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2012, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/102 "2012-08-03T15:12:10Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > OK - so Romney describes Obama’s economy as “sclerotic”. > > A bit of a scary, mediacally sounding word that I don’t understand - so I looked it up. > > It seems to relate to “hardening”. > > Can one of you fantastic dopers help me to interpret this in relation to Obama’s economy? Is it “hardening” and becoming less flexible? How does an economy do that? Or did Romney just choose a scary sounding word without caring about its meaning? I’d say the bolded bit of the [definition](http://www.merriam-webster.com/medical/sclerosis?show=0&t=1344006389) quoted below is what he had in mind: > [@](#): > > : a pathological condition in which a tissue has become hard and which is produced by overgrowth of fibrous tissue and other changes (as in **arteriosclerosis** ) or by increase in interstitial tissue and other changes (as in multiple sclerosis)—called also hardening Suggesting the economy is like an atherosclerotic\* artery: hardened, narrowed by plaque buildup, thus with diminished flow creating ill health. - “Atherosclerotic/osis” and “arteriosclerotic/osis” are alternative forms for the same concept and equally correct; “arthrosclerotic/osis” is an abomination before God and all right-thinking proofreaders. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2012, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/103 "2012-08-03T15:36:38Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I thought congressmen had to file financial disclosure forms. Reid has been in the Senate since forever, so it is somewhat unlikely for there to be anything interesting in his forms that the disclosure forms wouldn’t already describe. OK so to be fair make Romney file financial disclosure forms after he becomes President and forget about tax forms before the fact. The point is that the interesting things are always before you’re elected to national office. You know how Harry Reid made all his money? Neither do I but I believe the state senator in Godfather II is modeled after Reid. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2012, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/104 "2012-08-03T15:36:42Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > There are two things that I find intriguing or convincing in this debate. Romney has chosen to release only two years’ worth of returns. Assuming he truly wants to win, he must believe that the damage from not releasing more returns will be less than the damage from releasing them. Also, I’ve read reports that he gave 23 years’ worth of returns to the McCain campaign in 2008 when he was being vetted as a potential running mate. I find it troubling that he considered it a valid interest then, but won’t release the same information now. The public is supposed to be vetting him for the presidency. McCain’s team saw his returns and then picked Sarah Palin. Enough said. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2012, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/105 "2012-08-03T16:37:42Z")
We ask posters on this board to provide a cite for their claims all the time. So when making a claim of this sort I think Reid should cite his evidence - name names of his source(s). Stepping forward and making a claim of this sort reminds me of the Birthers making outrageous claims about Obama’s citizenship without providing evidence to back up the claim. Reid should not stoop so low. In short, yes, he should put up or shut up. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2012, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/106 "2012-08-03T16:51:08Z")
Yes. And those birthers yelped and howled that the whole thing could be cleared up by Obama releasing his birth certificate – which he did. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2012, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/107 "2012-08-03T16:52:27Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > We ask posters on this board to provide a cite for their claims all the time. > > So when making a claim of this sort I think Reid should cite his evidence - name names of his source(s). > > Stepping forward and making a claim of this sort reminds me of the Birthers making outrageous claims about Obama’s citizenship without providing evidence to back up the claim. Reid should not stoop so low. In short, yes, he should put up or shut up. Can you possibly point to any threads in the past where you admonished the birthers in the same way? Just want to make sure your outrage is consistent. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2012, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/108 "2012-08-03T17:05:03Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > How? It can’t be substantated until Mitt releases his returns. Is Reid supposed to break into Romney’s study and fish them out of his safe? No, what Romney’s people are demanding is this: > [@Iggy](#): > > So when making a claim of this sort I think Reid should cite his evidence - name names of his source(s). Which Reid is plainly not going to do. Lyndon Johnson quotes to the contrary, it’s not ethnical to make unsubstantiated allegations against people and they demand they prove you wrong. That’s not a reasonable request because it starts a series of cascading accusations and demands that never stops and everybody knows it. I agree Romney has no standing to complain about this kind of thing after, among other things, the “If we keep talking about the economy, we’ll lose” lie. And after four years and counting of Birther-dom it’s certainly sauce for the goose as far as the GOP goes. So it’s hard not to smirk at all this, but it really is a bullshit debate tactic. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2012, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/109 "2012-08-03T17:13:53Z")
It\* isn’t\* a debate tactic, **Marley23**. The world outside is not the SDMB. It’s a \*campaign \*tactic. A good one, too. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2012, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/110 "2012-08-03T17:27:07Z")
This all makes sense as part of a larger strategy to use Romney’s thin skin, as he revealed in the primaries, to disqualify him in the minds of enough of the electorate. They’ll keep goading and goading until he explodes for us, on camera, and that’ll be the end. Meanwhile, the approach keeps a lid on his support levels, a lid that gets tighter every day. Really, how do the upsides and downsides for the 2 candidates compare? Romney has no upside available to him; he can only hope that something bad blows up for Obama. He can’t hope for an Obama explosion, because the guy’s so cool he’s made of liquid nitrogen. Meanwhile, Romney is using a defensive strategy, talking only to Fox etc., that is a guaranteed fail for a guy who’s behind. Obviously he’s chosen the stonewall approach to his taxes because he thinks that’s less damaging than the truth. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2012, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/111 "2012-08-03T17:32:45Z")
Doesn’t the AMT prevent individuals from avoiding taxes altogether past a certain income level? How would it be possible for Romney to not pay taxes at all some years? And if he could do that, why do we have an AMT? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2012, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/112 "2012-08-03T17:42:09Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > This all makes sense as part of a larger strategy to use Romney’s thin skin, as he revealed in the primaries, to disqualify him in the minds of enough of the electorate. It is a good strategy. John mcCain is my hero, but that’s how Bush beat him. The attacks on him were dirty as hell, but completely absurd. I doubt those were what beat him. What beat him was him losing his cool and giving that “agents of intolerance” speech. Rove got McCain to lash out at the very base he was trying to win. One thing about Obama, he gets miffed, but never loses his cool in public. He can’t be rattled. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2012, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/113 "2012-08-03T17:56:17Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It is a good strategy. John mcCain is my hero, but that’s how Bush beat him. The attacks on him were dirty as hell, but completely absurd. I doubt those were what beat him. What beat him was him losing his cool and giving that “agents of intolerance” speech. Rove got McCain to lash out at the very base he was trying to win. > > One thing about Obama, he gets miffed, but never loses his cool in public. He can’t be rattled. Romney is actually very arrogant, IMO, which is probably based on a lifetime of wealth and privilege. He assumes that he gets to set his own narrative, but of course in an election you can try, but chances are you will fail. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2012, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/114 "2012-08-03T18:08:17Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > It\* isn’t\* a debate tactic, **Marley23**. The world outside is not the SDMB. > > It’s a \*campaign \*tactic. A good one, too. And strategically it’s probably smart. But if you notice, a few people in this thread have asked what’s wrong with Reid making the accusation and demanding Romney release the returns to prove him wrong. It’s fair to point out that that’s not considered a reasonable argument around here, and certainly nobody thought it was valid when people were making up stupid shit about Obama being born in Kenya. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2012, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/115 "2012-08-03T18:17:39Z")
Obama was supposed to be a new, better kind of President. Good thing he has the old scumbags of his party to pitch the sleaze so he can pretend to be above it all. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2012, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/116 "2012-08-03T18:19:30Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > It’s fair to point out that that’s not considered a reasonable argument around here, and certainly nobody thought it was valid when people were making up stupid shit about Obama being born in Kenya. I don’t think the two situations are really analogous. People making up stupid shit about Obama was stupid because Obama there was already overwhelming evidence that Obama was born in the US. People that were claiming he was born in Kenya had to weave bizarre conspiracy theories. Had that evidence not existed, had Obama refused to show any birth certificate, had the gov’t of Hawaii been unwilling to vouch for his records, and there been no birth announcement in Hawaiian papers, had Kenya not been a warzone at the time his mother was supposed to have traveled there to give birth, then I don’t think it would’ve been wrong for people to speculate that he might be hiding something. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2012, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/117 "2012-08-03T18:35:09Z")
I don’t want to drill down six layers in analyzing the comparison- that’s usually not productive. The point I’m trying to make here is that it’s a very dodgy tactic to say ‘If you won’t tell me what I want to know, I’ll just start accusing you of stuff until you prove me wrong.’ I’d like to know what’s in the tax returns, but generally speaking we already know why Romney won’t release them: he feels that whatever is in there will hurt him politically. And we already know he’s extremely rich and not paying a whole lot in taxes. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2012, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/118 "2012-08-03T18:39:38Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > ‘If you won’t tell me what I want to know, I’ll just start accusing you of stuff until you prove me wrong.’ I’d like to know what’s in the tax returns Meh, that’s why politicians release things, to head off accusations that they’re doing something wrong. If there wasn’t the possibility of such accusations, they wouldn’t release anything. > [@](#): > > but generally speaking we already know why Romney won’t release them: he feels that whatever is in there will hurt him politically. Yea, but that’s _really_ general. And its kind of unreasonable to expect people to leave it at “there’s something in there that will hurt him politically” and then not try and figure out what “something” is. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2012, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/119 "2012-08-03T18:45:27Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Meh, that’s why politicians release things, to head off accusations that they’re doing something wrong. If there wasn’t the possibility of such accusations, they wouldn’t release anything. I don’t think that’s why presidential candidates release their tax returns. It’s not to head off accusations they’d done something wrong so much as it is to let people get a sense of their finances and how they make their money and what they do with it. Have we talked up the fact that George Romney started this tradition in 1968, by the way? That makes this whole thing more than a little ironic. > [@](#): > > And its kind of unreasonable to expect people to leave it at “there’s something in there that will hurt him politically” and then not try and figure out what “something” is. I’m not expecting people to leave it at that. But Reid didn’t just try to figure it out, he’s making public pronouncements about what he believes Romney did even though we know he hasn’t seen the returns. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2012, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085/120 "2012-08-03T19:02:32Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I’m not expecting people to leave it at that. But Reid didn’t just try to figure it out, he’s making public pronouncements about what he believes Romney did even though we know he hasn’t seen the returns. Why are you distorting what Reid is saying. Here it is, from the link in the OP > [@](#): > > A month or so ago, he said, a person who had invested with Bain Capital called his office. > > “Harry, he didn’t pay any taxes for 10 years,” Reid recounted the person as saying. > > “He didn’t pay taxes for 10 years! Now, do I know that that’s true? Well, I’m not certain,” said Reid. "But obviously he can’t release those tax returns. How would it look? Reid is not claiming that he knows Romney paid no taxes. All he is saying that a Bain investor told him this. Even if Reid releases the name, it would prove nothing. If the investor confirms the story, it would just confirm Reid’s statement but still say nothing about the taxes. So don’t claim that Reid is claiming he knows anything about the taxes. As for Kenya, if Romney release the returns and people start claiming they were faked then the situations would be analogous. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-romney-release-his-tax-returns/630085.md?page=7)